I did remember that, but as I said in my OP on the topic, the tomato paste amount is very small, and it caramelizes away when you roast the bones. Only the taste (and a lot of it!) remains, just like when you cook with wine and the alcohol burns off.


I am. Think about the chemical reaction when you 'cook' fish in a citric acid, as with cerviche. You don't want that process going on in the beef stock, just as you don't want to add any 'sweet' from things like carrots and parsnips. OTHO, it's why you do want to increase the umami quotient of beef by adding the dried mushrooms.

Lisa

I'm not taking my chances.


Why not? I want to get the minerals from the bones.

Exactly! You want the minerals from the bones to go into the stock - not be destroyed by the enzymes. Thus, no acids. By all means feel free to add them to the broth or soup from the stock however, because will have not only already removed the bones, you're only cooking the broth/soup for a brief time.

Lisa

Huh? Calcium, magnesium, etc. are atomic elements. The only thing that can destroy them is a nuclear reaction. I thought if you don't add acid, they stay in the bones and don't dissolve into the stock.

Sorry I wasn't clearer - I meant the acid would prevent the good stuff from melting into the stock. Just like the fish in cerviche stays firm, unlike fish 'cooked' by heat in fat or water. The acid does that.


I know that's what you think. Unfortunately, you've got it backwards. Take garlic and onion. If you don't cook them a bit in fat first, to get them soft, but add them raw to an acid like tomato sauce, the acid prevents them from melting into the sauce. Cooking them a bit first allows it.

By adding acid to your stock, you're doing the same thing to your bones. I'm not sure how I can state this more clearly.

Lisa

Unfortunately Harold McGee doesn't say a peep about vinegar in broth in "On Food and Cooking". Gelatin comes from bones too and you can get that out of bones without acid. Maybe it's like that?

I still don't know what it has to do with ceviche. Cooking, whether by heat or chemicals, is mostly hydrolysation of proteins. It doesn't have anything to do with minerals. Garlic and onion have oils that don't dissolve in water - that's why they need fat to get the flavors out. Maybe you're talking about the fat and collagen, and the flavorful meat proteins, not the minerals?

Hey there. Capmikee, did you ever get the beef bone broth thing right? I just made some this weekend and it is--um, unremarkable. I just finished simmering, so I'll see if it sets up at all. I am guessing its not going to do much, and the flavor is just meh. I will try again this weekend. Any tips?

No. I've decided to go simpler, but I still haven't made anything fantastic. Along the way, though, I discovered I don't need to add any herbs or vegetables to make great chicken broth.

Well, I don't know if this will help your broth making but whenever I cook beef sous vide I get the most divine broth. It isn't a ton, just the juices that squeeze out of the meat. Enough to make a really nice gravy.

It wasn't until I got a pressure cooker that I made stock that I really liked.

Also, re: Beef stock. Cooks Illustrated tested different methods -- oh um, 2 years ago or so. They ended up adding ground beef to the stock -- surprise surprise -- the ground meat helped to get that meaty flavor.

Capmikee: Thank you then. Next time I will go with no veg. It tasted to veggie to me anyway.

Nancy: Totally jealous of your sous vide set up. I might buy the Eades' sous vide thingy if I'm a good girl for the rest of the year.

Square: I considered a pressure cooker. I might try the ground beef. Thanks for the tip.

You can make your own for under $300! Just buy the controller, $140, very large rice cooker $40-50 and foodsaver ($100ish) or some other device to evacuate the air out of bags.

I kind of laid out my setup in that Sous Vide thread in the kitchen forum.

My love to the Eades but I'd much rather have it piece meal so if something fails I can just replace that one piece, until I have more trust in their appliance's reliability.

That's a really good point. Perhaps I'll go with the NancyLC-brand after all.

Has anybody bought the eadesmachine? I'm tempted.