Well, Cameron says to keep it around 60 carbs - gross, not net. He didn't want people to mess with ketosis. He figured 60 was just high enough to avoid ketosis, while being low enough to knock the socks off your overweight. I maintained successfully for many years at around 60. To lose, I go much lower. I don't count every carb, but it seems to be around 30.

Meg

In other words, YMMV?

Everyone can and should do what works for them. I'm trying to stay on Atkins induction to get my weight loss restarted well. Then, I'll see how it feels. I stayed in induction for about nine months the first time. I'm pretty metabolically challenged. It worked and I lost 90 pounds -- it was my lack of willpower that made me add in too many carbs and not monitor, not cravings or binges. I've done M&E for a while -- didn't seem to take it up another level, so I'm back to induction level. If I need to stay there for a lifetime to get healthy, I will make that effort. No promises, just one day at a time.

Barrabbas, there are lots of people with different plans and levels that work for them. Get comfortable with a plan, and find a carb level that makes you feel good and helps you lose. We're all here for a good reason. We need to be healthier.

The final thought: just because Dr.s have found that one glass of red wine a day is beneficial to health, would you suggest an alcoholic should "try" to limit themselves to one glass of wine?
For some people it IS all.... or nothing.

I don't think that comparison is the same at all.

I think if you did a study, you would find the folks who zero or drastically cut carbs to less than 10 are the ones to "go off the wagon" and gain back weight the most.

I'm just saying you shouldn't have a 'wagon' to fall off of. Make your way down the path walking so that you can last forever without as much effort.

Of course, it is whatever works for you, but if you are insulin resistant, (as I am) any increase in insulin comes with a hunger that doesn't cease. I CAN and have gone crazy on string beans; I haven't gained 100 lbs eating circus peanuts, it's mostly not ever feeling full because insulin runs rampant in my body when I consume carbs.
My body makes enough glycogen from a process called neoglucogenisis. Every available mineral and vitamin exists in animal protein sources.
But don't take my word for it.
I've only been down this road alot. This is my first time VLC to ZC. I have never met anyone who doesn't stumble and fall, and I for one have to take it one day, one meal, one minute at time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-Carb_Diet
I can't think of how you can't compare this to alcoholism, it could have ruined mine and my families life, I may even fail knowing that being this fat could kill me, if it isn't an addiction, tell me what is?

I once ran into an acquaintance who noticed that I'd lost weight. I told him about how I was eating low carb and avoiding a lot of foods because of health issues. He asked if I was seeing a doctor about them. I said no, I treat them with diet. Then he handed me this zinger:

"He that treats himself has a fool for a doctor."

I was a bit surprised that he would be so rude. I didn't know what to say. With hindsight of course I realized that almost all doctors are fools!

I started out with Atkins with the full intention of working my way up the carb ladder, hoping to make it to 50 or 60g of carbs a day so I could eat more or less anything that I liked (at the time). But I soon discovered that my carb limit - for maintenance - is 20 or 30 g. I don't think this is at all uncommon. What's strange to me is how a couple people have said in this thread that very low carb limits would lead most people to give up. For me it's the total opposite. I know that if I had a carb-eating day even a little higher than my regular amount, I would go nuts with cravings. On the other hand, if I skip vegetables for a few days, I hardly even notice. If I'm setting myself up for disaster in the future, at least I'm averting a disaster today.

One thing I think people overlook when they talk about avoiding cravings is food sensitivities. I've known a few people who kept on having food cravings until they finally gave up dairy, or wheat, or rice, or almonds, or whatever. Sometimes they find that they can eat a lot more carbs without any trouble, as long as they avoid their particular trigger foods. Unfortunately (or fortunately, perhaps) I haven't found any carby foods at all that don't trigger hunger and cravings for me.


You're playing with fire, photocrazy. Let me put it this way: there are a number of people here who believe that the benefits of fiber are fictional. Personally, I think fat does everything that the "experts" claim fiber does.

I'm exactly the same way. Raise my carbs over about 25, I'm going to stall and screw up. Stay under 20, I can keep doing this. And I've actually been healthier that way than adding fiber, trying to force in more veggies or fruit, etc.

There is no one answer, and if you find your nirvana with 70 carbs or 0, I say more power to you. We're still on this side, trying to convince everyone else that LC is a legitimate WOE at all.

I completely agree with that, 100%. I had to do a very strict (and painful! ) elimination diet to figure out that much of my stomach and intestinal issues were caused by white flour and refined sugars (also chocolate, VERY unfortunately! ). And when I eliminate these foods on a low-carb WOE, I solve my stomach issues with the added benefit of weight loss.




Maybe so, but we'll have to agree to disagree here.


I don't mean to come off sounding anti-low carb, of course I'm not or I wouldn't have even joined this board in the first place. I have lost 24 lbs on this WOE. I am just very much a realist, and it is in my personality to say it as I see it, I apologize if that offends anyone, it is not my intention. I am just one of those people without the thoughtful "buffer-zone' in the brain, and I speak my mind openly.

And I guess what was bothering me about reading some of the threads on here is that I find that a lot of people make up a lot of excuses for things, for reasons why they aren't losing weight, for reasons why they "fell of the wagon" even for reasons why they can eat carbs! I have done it myself for the past 10 years, all the way up the scale to the weight I"m at now. I've made excuses that "oh, it's the babies I had so close together", "Oh, it's my stomach issues and bloating", "oh, exercise is hard for me because I have R.A." (true), "oh, I hardly eat anything but my metabolism just sucks." Sorry, but it's all bull you-know-what (exept for the R.A. part ) I'm fat because I don't exercise at all, I eat four pieces of cake in one sitting, I buy chocolate bars everytime i go to the store, I hide candy in my office, and I don't stick to my "diet".

And I"m sure that's not the case for everyone...I'm sure many people on this board do have some sort of metabolic disorder or are on medications that makes weight loss hard, or damn near impossible, but I think a lot of us just aren't standing up and admitting to things. *shrug* That's just the way I see it.

And Metagirl, you are right about the comparison. It can be considered very similar, and exactly the same for some people. I was wrong about that.

The zero carb people are not trying to convinve anyone to do anything they do not want to do here, why is everyone attacking us? I love zc and fully realize that not many people can or want to do it. No worries, find the plan that works for you. I am not running around bad mouthing the higher carb plans, why do you need to be so negative about mine?

r u talking to me? I didn't "bad mouth" your plan. I expressed my opinion on it. Like I said, that doesn't make me any more or less right that you, it's just my opinion. Your opinion is just different than mine.

Wow, I'm new to this board and have been a part of MANY boards before. Never have I had a problem with speaking my mind and having people be SO offended by it. Strange.

Photocrazy,
If I were adressing you individually I would have used your user name, so no, I was not directing my comment to you.

There has been many heated debates on many different plans, as someone said when SBD and CAD first came, many LCers (mainly Atkineers) attacked it and didn't accept it as a proper LC plan. In fact only last year we had a huuuuge debate on IFing, especially when Dr Eads changed his mind regarding IF strategy. ZC or M&E is also another subject some people feel strongly about and still haven’t found acceptance within LC communities.

Uh huh. What Tigerlily said. SB scares me... but that's me.

SB doesn't make sense to me, and I would probably miss my vegetables on zero carb. But I'm happy to have SB and the zero carbers, and all the plans here. We belong together because we DO have a lot in common. I've seen evangelism on both sides, but I've also seen people really sharing their experiences, which is fascinating and it's what the forum is all about. Please don't try to drive anyone away.

Trying to limit discussions to one idea of each plan would serve no one. Most plans make room for a range of carbs - you can do zero-carb Atkins and you can do high-carb Paleo. Just because there isn't a zero-carb "plan" here doesn't mean that discussion of it doesn't fit into other plans.