Sandy, I was stalled before my experiment and for MANY MONTHS AFTER I quit. It wasn't the very low carb that started the stall and it wasn't the very low carb that ended it.

As for thyroid problems, I see TONS of it over on low carb friends from people following plans like South Beach, Atkins, etc... Is it logical to blame being low carb (or very low carb) for a couple of months on the thyroid problem, or the 20,30, or 40 previous years on the SAD diet for the issues?

Like you, I prefer a higher carb level than those doing pure carnivore. That DOESN'T mean that carnivore = Kimkins. That is my problem with your statement. I expect the personalities of certain members of the zero carb crowd may be coloring your opinions.


Technically NO ONE can be ZERO carb since there are some carbs in meat. Zero carb, in the practical sense means very low carb.

Wtf, then don't come around here... Eat your carbs somewhere else. What's the problem?

I presume when you are saying eat your carbs you mean eat your veggies, I know you carnivores believe spinach and cucumbers are as bad as cake and pasta. Yes I will continue eating my veg and fruit too any wholesome food I fancy food too.

I haven't personally attacked anyone here, I stated my opining from my own experience with Zero carbs, this is a forum and everyone is entitled to state their opinion without personal attacks. Also this is a paleo sub forum, not a zero carb or carnivore forum !!

My opinion still stands, carnivore woe is dangerous, and I do believe its as dangerous as kimkins if not more, sorry Zilla and I assure you its not because of the carnivore psychos we won't mention, its because of all the ladies and gents who suffered from this woe, I wont mention any names, you know them as well as I do.

And how could you say that about thyroid?? T4 to T3 will be affect with both low calorie and low carb diets!!! extrem low carbing does cause one's thyroid to shut down, its a fact, but lukily one can repair the damage (if caught early)

Yes you did. Not a particular individual but an entire group. Not because you don't target anyone in particular that it isn't personal. It is but now the only person that looks the worse for it is you. Indeed, the only person that ever looks bad is the attacker. And that's just fine by me.

No I didn't attack anyone personally - I am entitled to my opinion about different diets, that's why we have the forum to discuss and share our own thoughts, for me and lots more others carnivore lead to health issues, I am sharing my experience with carnivore woe, and hoping others won't fall into the carnivore trap.

Who's everyone? Look below.


My mistake. You didn't attack anybody. You just made vaguely generalized statements about everyone.

The carnivore WOE can be done wrong just like Atkins, South Beach, Eat Fat Get Thin or any other eating plan. It doesn't make the plan necessarily bad (well, South Beach has issues, but I wont go in to that right now..LOL).

If you don't eat organ meat, pay careful attention to the quality of your meat (is the omega 3 fatty acid profile sufficient? Grass feed vs grain fed? Eat too much lean protein and not enough fat) you could end up sick. My only problem with carnivore was getting enough fat. The meat available in my local stores is mostly lean. I had no good local sources for animal fat that wasn't hydrogenated. (And personally, I like strawberries and coconut too much to ever give them up. So no carnivore for me!)

Science and human evolution support a carnivore eating style as a viable diet for humans. Not all individuals will thrive on it. Not all individuals thrive on Atkins either. Individual hormonal balance and other issues can just mean you are not a good candidate for a certain WOE. The fact that some take it to the extreme and try to say a strawberry is the same as a piece of chocolate cake made with refined flour, refined sugar, and high fructose corn syrup does not invalidate carnivore. It just means that some people are idiots. No big surprise there! LOL

My opinion is the only way one can succeed long term on a totally carnivorous diet is by eating foods such as gut matter, raw organs, drinking the blood, eating rotting meat, insects. These foods are very common in a lot of traditional cultures and still are today, just watch Bizare Foods with Andrew Zimmern

There's no "carnivore trap" some folks just don't understood how to eat carnivorously; they eat over-processed meat or not enough fat, so they don't feel well. Others assume their carb withdrawals in the first month or two are some sign that they are getting sick and give up too soon. The only trap I worry about is people who really should eat carnivorously falling for the baseless FUD you're pushing.

P.S.: "carnivore psychos", nice.

Sorry, but that contradicts your earlier claim that: "people can thrive on any diet really."

When I mean thrive on any diet, i'm basing the word diet on whole organic foods. It doesn't matter if one eats more veggies then fruit or more grains then meat or more meat then grains. People can thrive on any natural whole foods. This obviously does not include highly processed foods, those foods don't even enter my mind anymore. I can find dozens of people who are stronger, happier and healthier than you that eat little to no meat but lots of grains and fruits. Some of the greatest entrepreneurs, athletes and people who have made huge contributions to our way life have eaten the so called the worst most toxic foods according to you. If you listen to the bear he says most people become obsessed with food, you would fall into this category.People who engage in radical dietary habits take it beyond eating healthy, they do at because its an obsession and a way to take this diet realm to another level just to be different than main stream diet. You have an addiction and you don't even realize it. This diet will always be on your mind about adhering to a radical diet of all meat. As soon as a new diet fad comes out you will jump on that wagon, this is the same as a vegan diet, our society as become so obsessed with this extreme nonsense diet extremes people like yourself are willing to jump on it.

While I agree with some of the sentiments in your post, Mineralman, the whole argument you make is fundamentally flawed because it is an attack on a single person rather than a reasoned statement and you have so little regard for the person to whom it is addressed that you assume to know everything about him, how he thinks and what motivates him. That is grossly insulting.

I do not disagree with anything there Zilla

So to make it clear in my own experience, carnivore WOE was a disaster, it brought my metabolism into a halt ( remember when Dr Atkins said no one should attempt fat fast for longer than 3-5 days) well carnivore is a bit like a fat fast, only you do not control the calories. And it endangered my and other's health ... again this my own experience that I am sharing with everyone

If any of you goes and joins those carnivore forums, you'll realise that every single person on those forums (who adopted carnivore woe) have some health issues, simplest of which is a weight stall... only they all live in lala land, and refuse to back down and admit that this woe is just not designed for humans!! we are omnivores and that's is a fact no one can deny

Yes, my weight has stalled at a very healthy 165 pounds. Before elminating all those "healthy" fruits and vegetables, the lowest I could get was 175. To the best of my knowledge I have absolutely no health issues. I have never felt better in my life.

Check out Charles at zerocarbage.com. Anybody that is not impressed is simply in denial.

I hope some day to be stalled like Jeff...LOL