2BThinner,

Thank you so much for reading my posts and knowing we aren't talking any statins at all.

I was upset with my Dr. because she kept telling me in the exact words that if I continue to eat this way i am going to die young. But this new info on Lovaza is really upsetting to me. This seems like it is not just some study she would shoot down but from Lovaza itself. My Dr. has an LDL of 160 so she takes it and has a family history so she is going on Statins on her 45th birthday no matter what. They work. What a freak. I took the Lovaza and I normally really look into what I take before I take it no matter what dumb doctor tells me but I was taking OTC omega 3 fish oil, she said this was like taking more and she takes it. Never said a word about my trys only that my HDL would go up because 42 even though it's in their okay level is still bad. She wants it at 60. So I just gave up OTC fish oil for her Lovaza to only try for 3 months.

After the 3 months, had a new test and she freaked that HDL was 36 and took me off Lovaza because it wasn't working. Then she talked about my horrible diet and the fact that I lost 26 lbs was nothing because you can still have a heart attack or stroke and be skinny. I said I read exercise can help if you do it 7 days per week so I am doing that. We talked about Niacin and I told her the side effects were not possible for me. I have rosacea and i get hives so i can't have the reddening of the skin or itching that can be caused by something that i don't have enough solid proof to make my life that miserable yet.

So she makes me get the particle size test. The nurse called me and gave me the number HDL-2 = 9 and should be above 15. the doctor wants me to try Niacin. HELLO were you there about the reason i am not going on that? The nurse asked why and then I asked if I could have a copy of the test, they don't normally do that but when I come in for my follow up in 3 months I can look at it. I AM getting it if I have to stand there all day today.

The site you sent me was fantastic but I didn't understand the lowering of non HDL-2? Is that what the nurse meant by HDL-2. Was she supposed to say non HDL-2 but had no idea what she was talking about? She really couldn't explain anything to me except the number has to be over 15.

thank you so much for your help. I have really been trying to research on the internet because my DR is no help and neither is the nurse. The internet is full of weird studies but no numbers and what they mean.

thanks for really getting it!! I was happy to read what you sent me, just a little confused on the HDL-2 and the non HDL-2??

thanks again,

Lisa

Lisa, do you smoke? I just read that lowers HDL.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.c...-kitava_14.html

Nancy,

No I don't smoke but I did smoke for 22 years and quit 1 year and 2 months ago, the same day i quit all alcohol. Maybe that's not long enough but my MD knew that. It was kind of a big deal to quit both last year.

I did read about how the Lovaza was for people with Trys at 500 or more and mine was at 111. But I also read if your trys go down your HDL can go up so maybe that was what she was trying. I am still upset that she put me on it and I am working on getting a copy of the HDL-2 being 9 and should be over 15 thing. And if there is a difference between that and non-HDL-2, which was lowered by the Lovaza omega 3 non statin fish oils.

Also read about Vitamin D being great in the heart scan blog. It doesn't say how much but I would be willing to take that. I just started eating 1.5 oz of dark chocolate which is also in the heart scan blog once every couple of days. I guess some alcohol is good but I can't do that one. Then I read that CLAs are good and i am taking those now.

I think this doctor is about to get the boot. I also read in the heart scan blog that your HDL can go down like 20 pts with stress. I have had numerous crazy things happen to our family, strokes, etc so i have some extra stress.

I guess I will read about how much Vitamin D you need and figure I get enough fish oil in foods and omega 3 in my organic eggs and stop taking pills for that. The vitamin D i would get today if i knew how much.

Thanks for your help.

Lisa

Whoa! Congrats! Two big habits in one years, that's a heck of an accomplishment. There are other things that can contribute to lower HDL.

Lovaza! I was thinking that was a statin. As far as I can see it's just a very highly concentrated fish oil, which is a good thing. I googled HDL-2 fish oil and it sounds like it is supposed to increase it. Wonder why Lovaza doesn't?

I guess if you don't want the expense you can always take a store brand, but you'll have to take a lot more pills. Most Westerners get way too little Omega-3 because we don't eat much fish. If we eat more fish, we get too many pollutants like mecury and stuff. So about the only safe way to get lots of Omega-3 is from Fish oil (which isn't polluted with mecury and pollutants).

Dr. Davis thinks most people don't take enough fish oil:
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2...h-fish-oil.html

I've read a lot that plant based Omega-3's aren't very effective in humans because we don't convert them well. http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2...m-fish-oil.html

Are you stressed out or depressed? HDL seems to be suppressed in people that are unhappy. http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2...-for-happy.html (oops, you said you're stressed)

Do you eat wheat? http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2...wheat-free.html

What is your vitamin D3 blood levels? http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2...-d-and-hdl.html

Are you getting enough sleep or do you have sleep apnea? http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2...art-health.html

Is your TSH too high? http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2...h-too-high.html This may be a biggie! This is new info they're finding now.

If you want more possible suggestions, click here.

Oh heck, just read the rest of your post.

For D3, Dr. Davis suggests taking 5,000 iu a day for most people. But get your blood tested in 6 months or so. He likes people to be over 50 ng/nmol but probably more like 60. Be sure you're taking a good brand of D3, some of it out there just doesn't work. You can take up to 10,000 iu and be perfectly safe. I have been ordering my own D3 lab tests from lef.org because they use a really good lab when it comes to D3 testing: Labcorp. Other labs aren't so reliable.

I was taking about 4,000 iu for quite awhile and only got my blood levels to 40. So now I'm taking 10,000 and I'll retest early next year and see how it fares.

The stress well, I can't help you too much with. I hope you can find a way to relax more. I can identify with the stress of sick family members. I've been the primary caretaker for both my parents at the end of their lives and it was pretty awful. To me it seems like I cope much better with stress as long as I get enough sleep.

I wouldn't rely on food sources for omega-3. Keep up the fish oil, it's really good for you!

If you want to find specific info on Dr. Davis' blog there's a box in the top left-hand corner, you can plug in something like "D3 dose" and see if you can find his recommendations. That search box is a little hard to find if you're not familiar with the blog layout.

You're quite welcome.

Honestly, I'm not exactly sure it means anything to your HDL, but it seems to me that if it lowers things, it could lower other things. A lot of these studies are averages. Some of them may have gotten their HDL lowered, more got theirs raised and it averaged out to an increase.. Wah-la, this majik pill decreases tris and raises HDL...

A lot of the time, you can read the abstract of a study and it'll say something contrary to what is IN the study. Especially if it doesn't fit current protocol, ie low fat/high carb. Protein Power has a page of medical journals you can access. I'm sure you can find ammunition there. Personally, I just am stubborn...

http://proteinpower.com/journals.php

Personally I think you should start back on the fish oil!!

thanks for the congrats. I thought it was enough time smoking and drinking. I do better things with my time now. but thanks, it is nice to hear.

I had no problem with Lovaza. My doctor put me on it because of my HDL being 42 to get it UP. then took new test 3 months later and HDL went down to 36. She said get off of the Lovaza. I went to see her and go over the blood test study, normal blood sugar and BP and normal everything else really. But the HDL is horrible and it only comes from my diet. Losing 26 lbs did nothing for me because skinny people die from Heart attack, stroke all the time. So she ordered a more specialized test and found my HDL in one week had gone up to 44 which is in range but not good enough for her and her nurse said to go on 500mg of Niacin which i can't go on at all and the doctor forgot or something after talking about it for ages. But my HDL-2 is only 9 and it has to be over 15. Nurse didn't know what to do.

i guess stressed in good and bad ways. Mom is 61 and doesn't really know who I am anymore after 2 strokes this year. Dad moved 2000 miles away and is too busy to talk. I didn't get into a medical program I worked for and applied to. I am now going back to school and taking some extreme science to get into a BSN program that is stressful but in a good way because I am making my life better but it is another crap shoot to see if i get in but this program has more than one place to apply. But have a fantastic husband that is on my side in every way and believes in me completely in changing my life career.

A couple of articles on the heart scan blog i thought said omega 3 is not the only way to get fish oil. The omega 3 Lovaza fish oil didn't do anything for me and my doctor said sometimes it doesn't so get off of it.

I want to do the Vitamin D. heart scan says there aren't any tests for that but that it can increase HDL. I don't know the differences between Vitamin D and D3. i do take a mega multi vitamin 2 times per day.

I just can't have niacin at all.

i am an insomniac. i have started to use melatonin from the health food store to put under tongue for faster working and it is working. i can get between 5-6 hours now and it sometimes only takes me an hour to fall asleep. It used to be no sleep or 3 hours to get to sleep and waking up every single hour. I have worked very hard at changing this with many different methods because I won't take some Ambien or something addictive.

I'll try to find out about D vs. D3 and get a good brand. I will also try to find out how to maneuver the blog box of Dr. Davis although this is my first computer. I am very new to this computer stuff except for writing papers. I learn new stuff everyday and I love the internet and trying to determine which sites are junk and which are good. It is sometimes hard to do because anyone can write anything when ever they want on the internet.

Yes, I am big on not being on statins. Both parents on them. My dad brags about his Lipitor and his low 131 cholesterol as he is eating a BBQ potato chip. He is overweight, doesn't exercise, drinks beer, etc. i am not him so I don't want to be on that drug.

My mom did have many cholesterol problems but mainly i believe they were due to an extremely awful doctor that kept putting her on statins and taking her off when she had bad side effects and then putting her on new ones and then taking her off. She also had a blood infection that led to a hole in her mitral valve and had open heart surgery a few years ago so i think she is just a sick person. She would never question a doctor and when i did, I was being disrespectful and she told me in no uncertain terms to stay out of her medical care. I have respected that and now she is 61 and I will never hear from her unless I call her because she can't dial a phone anymore or do much else. Funny, both of my parents are brilliant and highly educated but questioning a doctor is just not done.

I will never be them. I question everything and will never put any drug in my mouth until i feel comfortable with the research i have done. It sounds like you are the same way and i think that is fantastic. We can't just think doctors are God and take their word for everything. I just found out that Lovaza "(per their own site) is for people with triglycerides at or above 500. I was never there. She didn't talk to me about that. I have loved her for years but I never had any issues like I do now. i don't like the way she talks to me. She said she is the doctor and a person (layman) with a little bit of internet knowledge is very dangerous.

thanks for all of your info,

Lisa

I hadn't read this before. And I drink cranwater all day. (One cup of pure cranberry juice diluted in a two quart pitcher)




Here's where I found it..l
http://heartdisease.about.com/cs/ch.../a/raiseHDL.htm

It says fiber raises HDL too, which I have to say rather surprised me. I thought fiber, in general, lowered cholesterol because it carries it out. Otherwise, it's recycled by the body to the liver. (Per Ann Louise Gittleman's Fat Flush Plan)

Me too. And this is purely anecdotal on my part, but I find magnesium (like 3 tablets of 500) are very helpful for me for sleeping. As is less caffeine. (Fat Flush Plan). You might start slow, because it can also speed up the digestion. Which was helpful for me, but it isn't for everyone.

Hi 2BThinner,




i take 3 psyllium husk capsules per day. Also take calcium magnesium citrate morning and night. I took them for leg cramps but i just kept on them because i think I probably don't get enough calcium anyway. Plus I heard magnesium was good for you. this spray under tongue melatonin seems to be working but only used for last few days.

Oh, and I would do cranberry juice with no sugar at all which I don't know if they have but only if it was the only thing to save my life. I just can hardly get it down. I could rather drink caster oil. LOL

I am interested in the vitamin D but don't know what the difference is between that and D3. I would buy a reputable brand for sure.

I kind of think my doctor is a little crazy. I have read some pretty major cholesterol results that make me think that her telling me I will die if I stay on this diet with my cholesterol levels a little nuts. she doesn't know much about my family history because she is too busy when she sees me anyway so she is really just going on my fatty diet. I don't think I should pick out a casket just yet at 39 but I am going to exercise more and maybe take a few more supplements but I think losing more weight and I can only do it on this diet is what has to help the most even though she disagrees.

TC: 171
HDL: 44 but HDL2=9, should be 15?? Can't find any exact numbers on that.
Try: 85
LDL: 118
glucose: 85

I really think she is over reacting which is ONLY making me over react because of my mother. I don't want to be there in 20 years. That's not a lot of time to use my brain until it becomes mush.

Oh, almost forgot, I never drink caffeine because of my sleep issues i quit about 15 years ago. Haven't missed it. But I gave up aspertaine so I do miss my caffeine free diet coke but water is really all I drink.

Lisa

This strikes me as rather funny. Doctors, and many other licensed professionals, have to take continuing education to keep their license. Guess who puts on the seminars that give them their qualifying hours? Pharmaceutical companies. My point being, I think they get the "best" picture of a new majik pill. Not necessarily an accurate one.

I also kinda got that line from the doctor too. But, remember, they work for you. You don't HAVE to do what they "recommend". I'm sure when you get in medical school, you'll have a class on "telling" the patient what's best for them in a way that most will comply. That's not always a bad thing. I know my Dr. really has my best interests at heart, but I feel that he's working with false information. And to me, the bottom line is, it's my life. And it makes no sense to me that HALF the population "NEEDS" statins?(article from The Journal of the American Medical Association May 16 2001;285:2486-2497/Mercola website) in my journal. And many doctors don't have the time to do their own research. I feel bad that your doctor is going to go on statins "no matter what". They haven't been proven beneficial to women AT ALL. Very sad. Very low cholesterol, which it sounds like she's aiming for, has been linked to cancer/aggressive behavior/depression/GTA (global transient amnesia spacedoc.net) Lemming...

He and I go round and round about my blood pressure too. Part of the problem is I'm annoyed when I go in there. And it does run in my family. But, I take it at home and it's improved a lot on the Fat Flush Plan. It was sometimes borderline at home, probably through the stratosphere in his office... I've also noticed it will go up after I eat out if I eat like a steak or other meat that's seasoned there. So, I'm sensitive to "something". And do much better with salads. And I'm drinking water, not tea or alcohol.

I'm trying to learn the cause. I tried to talk to him about it, and he basically said the cause was genetic... When I looked it up, something like 90% of the time they DON'T KNOW what causes it. But, instead of trying to find out, they just give you a diuretic. Well, those are hard on your kidneys and liver and will eventually cause blood pressure problems when they fail!! Or at least that's my reasoning. My dad has had high blood pressure as long as I've been old enough to hear anything about it. He was on three different medications and they still couldn't get it down to normal. Now his kidneys are failing. Um, no. I refuse to go down that road. And the doctor's trying to tell me that the medication is the only reason he's still alive. I think he'd probably be a hell of a lot healthier if he had just let it be.

2Bthinner,

i think we think alike. I am not my parents. I don't like taking drugs that are not necessary. I was about to lay into my doctor about where she is getting all her "doctor" info. I am only trying to be a surgical nurse so I will always be the "layman" LOL to my doctor. Maybe when her statins don't work I can help cut into her and fix her up. ONLY kidding. I would never wish that on anyone but I was a little confused when I brought in lots of information with me on my diet, on my cholesterol, my weight chart over the last 3 months, my meal plans, etc. If I came in with that information stating that I am willing to have an open mind about my diet and do some changes as long as she has an open mind, don't you think any other doctor would say, great, I have a person with a live brain here!!! But no, I have no idea what i am talking about because she is a doctor at some tiny clinic here in the suburbs of Chicago.

I think I will eventually change doctors if it becomes a fight each time because she does work for me since I am the one paying her. But she gave me a script for a new blood test in January. I was going to work on this for the next 3 months and then see what it says and she says and go from there but those were her words, really. I almost laughed. I am never usually talked to like that because I show people such great respect (can't help it, mom raised me that way) so people are usually more respectful to me.

I really don't think these numbers are that bad. You higher cholesterol at the MD office, White Coat Syndrome, is very common. It happens to me and mine is usually 100/60 or a bit higher but still good but I see that white coat and it is 120/81. That's why the nurses these days wear the cute little tops with cartoon characters on them a lot. Calm people down to get a better reading.

Lisa

That's why it's diluted. It's supposed to be very good for the lymphatic system, and many Fat Flush Plan followers swear it gets rid of cellulite. I don't mind it, diluted. And I can get pure juice, but I have to hunt over in the health section of the store. It's not Ocean Spray, and others have tricky labels. Like, it'll say 100% Cranberry juice, but when you read the label, it's actually got mostly apple juice and a little bit of cranberry juice. But, it's ALL juice. Such semantics are annoying... But, Mountain Sun and R.W.Knudson are the ones I use. It's expensive, but when you consider the servings by the dilution, it's not so bad. And even though I have not lost a lot of weight (well 11 lbs) I HAVE lost a lot of edema. I can wear a smaller size shoe! Weird...

This is a very interesting discussion! I'm going to dig out my Acme juicer and make my own cranberry juice. I can sweeten it with Sweetzfree, just like I do my sf cranberry sauce.

What exactly is "cranwater"? IOW, how much cranberry juice to how much water?

2bthinner,

Maybe i could handle the taste. The cranberries have sugar but it is so diluted that there is no sugar? I might have to go to my health food guru and see if he knows where to find it.

Oh, I went down a shoe size. In some of my sandals, it looks like i am a kid playing dress up with my mom's shoes. I am wearing mostly boots now and they just feel better than last year so those are okay. I think I might get one more pair but I also wear my gym shoes that I had fitted at a specialty athletic store. My niece used to work there so I got a deal but now she graduated college and is off doing bigger and better things so I think I will have to pay full price from now on but it was worth it.

I am planning on working out because I read 25% of people with low HDL can higher their score. Plus I really need to. I have lost most of my weight with just diet. I'm sure I move around more with a little less weight but I just went to the gym yesterday and I am sore today and I didn't overdue it so taking the day off.

I have to now study the names of all the little bumps and crevices on the skeleton system for a test tomorrow morning. I decided my cholesterol was more important this morning but now looking at the time, almost 2pm, I better get cracking. If I even get a B in any science class that could take me out of contention for any spot in any nursing school. also with all A's doesn't guarantee any spot either no matter how much $ I am paying to get a second bachelor's degree. I guess these bones are important. LOL

So good talking to you.. You really know your stuff and you really like to research and tip the apple cart as I like to do. I hope you don't mind if i visit your journal if I ever have anymore questions. Thank you for all of your help. Have a fantastic day!!!!

Lisa

Thank you Lisa, you have a great day (and retain lots of knowledge!!) too. You can visit my journal any time. I usually just put my food in it now...

Kisal
It's one cup of pure juice and then water to fill a 2 quart pitcher.(64 oz). And you drink it all in one day. Ann Louise gives a recipe for making the juice, but it doesn't involve a juicer. She says to take a 10 oz bag of cranberries (now's probably a good time to buy several bags!) boil them in 4 cups of water (she recommends ozonated / purified water) just until all the berries burst. Then drain the juice and this gives you the 32 oz that I can buy in the store. I've been saving my juice bottles as I'm planning on using this recipe as soon as I remember to buy some cranberries! LOL

PS: Lisa
Add back your OTC fish oil. I take, starting again since I've learned that flax isn't a substitute, six a day. Three in the am, three in the pm. I was taking them, then started on The Fat Flush Plan and since I was taking Flax Oil (TBS am and pm) figured it may be enough Omega 3..

PPS: Many people have reported on here that their tris go up when they are actively losing weight, so that may explain yours. But, again, yours was in the normal range...