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  #61   ^
Old Sat, Jun-28-08, 16:33
Cajunboy47 Cajunboy47 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,900
 
Plan: Eat Fat, Get Thin
Stats: 212/162/155 Male 68 "
BF:32/23.5/23.5
Progress: 88%
Location: Breaux Bridge, La
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowcarbUgh
Wine doesn't help blood sugar control, it helps suppress or delay Dawn Phenomenon which results from the liver releasing sugar at around 4:00 a.m. to 6:00 a.m.


It sounds like you're saying the dawn phenomena is caused by the liver releasing sugar, but aren't there other reasons for the dawn phenomena?

such as:

Your insulin wore out during the night.......

"My preference for blood sugar control is insulin."

Everybody has their own preference I suppose. My preference is herbal medicine and in particular; Berberine Hydrochloride, which isn't even an herb that is sold for the control of blood sugar... go figure!

My BG at bedtime last night was 88. My FBG today was 80.... INDIRECTLY, I think my dawn phenomena has been reversed. For today, anyway...

My last hypo was the last time I used glipizide. My herbs have never cause a hypo, even if and when I drink alcohol... Lucky me....

Also... I just want to mention this: Diabetes is a very serious disease and in this post, I'm only trying to deal with it with humor.....
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  #62   ^
Old Sat, Jun-28-08, 17:14
lowcarbUgh's Avatar
lowcarbUgh lowcarbUgh is offline
Dazed and Confused
Posts: 2,927
 
Plan: South Beach
Stats: 170/132/135 Female 5'10
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Flip-flop, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajunboy47
It sounds like you're saying the dawn phenomena is caused by the liver releasing sugar, but aren't there other reasons for the dawn phenomena?


HGH, epinephine and other hormones.

Quote:
Your insulin wore out during the night.......


No, my basal insulin does not "wear out."

Quote:
"My preference for blood sugar control is insulin."


You seem to get your knickers in a knot every time anyone mentions insulin.

Quote:
Everybody has their own preference I suppose. My preference is herbal medicine and in particular; Berberine Hydrochloride, which isn't even an herb that is sold for the control of blood sugar... go figure!


It certainly is amazing that you are using the active ingredient in Murine eye drops to control your blood sugar. I'm sure your body's own insulin has nothing to do with it.

Quote:
My BG at bedtime last night was 88. My FBG today was 80.... INDIRECTLY, I think my dawn phenomena has been reversed. For today, anyway...


That's because your body is producing enough insulin to cover it.

Quote:
My last hypo was the last time I used glipizide. My herbs have never cause a hypo, even if and when I drink alcohol... Lucky me....


I don't think your herbs or glipizide would do much for me. I don't get hypo with alcohol when I'm eating carbs. It is only when I am synthesizing glucose from protein.
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  #63   ^
Old Sat, Jun-28-08, 19:50
Cajunboy47 Cajunboy47 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,900
 
Plan: Eat Fat, Get Thin
Stats: 212/162/155 Male 68 "
BF:32/23.5/23.5
Progress: 88%
Location: Breaux Bridge, La
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Quote:
You seem to get your knickers in a knot every time anyone mentions insulin.


no, that's not quite true.... My knickers only get knotted about every 100th time that I notice that YOU mention it and completely detract from the meaning of someone else's thread and turn the thread into "all about you"... We're all so well informed at how expert you are on the use of insulin... We appreciate you so much, really!

Now, if your knickers are not knotted, you won't have to reply to this post, will you... ?
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  #64   ^
Old Sat, Jun-28-08, 20:17
lowcarbUgh's Avatar
lowcarbUgh lowcarbUgh is offline
Dazed and Confused
Posts: 2,927
 
Plan: South Beach
Stats: 170/132/135 Female 5'10
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Flip-flop, FL
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I don't knot very easily.

Since the discussion evolved to wine and alcohol, I thought it important to mention that 1) wine is not appropriate for controlling BG levels and 2) wine or alcohol drinking + very low carb + insulin could equal trouble. Bernstein covers this in "Diabetes Solution," but obviously, not everyone here had read it.
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  #65   ^
Old Sat, Jun-28-08, 21:21
Cajunboy47 Cajunboy47 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,900
 
Plan: Eat Fat, Get Thin
Stats: 212/162/155 Male 68 "
BF:32/23.5/23.5
Progress: 88%
Location: Breaux Bridge, La
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowcarbUgh
I don't knot very easily.

Since the discussion evolved to wine and alcohol, I thought it important to mention that 1) wine is not appropriate for controlling BG levels and 2) wine or alcohol drinking + very low carb + insulin could equal trouble. Bernstein covers this in "Diabetes Solution," but obviously, not everyone here had read it.


in reference to your #1 comment...

perhaps it is not appropriate for a type one to drink red wine to control BG levels, but studies have shown that a little red wine can help control BG levels for a type 2.....

ref: http://www.dlife.com/diabetes-news/...p_regulate.html

in reference to your #2 comment....

life + insulin use could equal trouble
--------------------------------------------
I would think anyone using insulin would have to use total caution with each and every usage, as any mistake can be fatal. I know insulin is necessary in many cases, but it requires a lot of precision and knowledge to use it appropriately and I gather that from your posts and the posts of many other insulin users, as well as information on insulin that I've read.

If I've learned one thing from being diabetic for 11 years (that makes me just a beginner by some standards, I suppose) is that keeping my BG numbers as steady as possible has many benefits in my achieving physical and mental health. If my diabetes progressed to the point that I am insulin dependent, from what I've learned so far, I'd hope that I would find the wisdom to give up alcohol consumption.

wine/alcohol drinking + insulin equals yo-yo Blood sugars... That's a game that should probably not be played............. but, many people do, don't they?

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  #66   ^
Old Sat, Jun-28-08, 21:24
Korban's Avatar
Korban Korban is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 423
 
Plan: Berstein's
Stats: 220/189/155 Male 68"
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: S. Carolina US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajunboy47
...We're all so well informed at how expert you are on the use of insulin... We appreciate you so much, really!
I appreciate anyone with 30 or so years of experience to share in dealing successfully with this malady.

Why do I keep thinking about a nice Chianti?...

Have a really wonderful day Cajun.
/smile
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  #67   ^
Old Sat, Jun-28-08, 21:28
Korban's Avatar
Korban Korban is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 423
 
Plan: Berstein's
Stats: 220/189/155 Male 68"
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: S. Carolina US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajunboy47
...I would think anyone using insulin would have to use total caution with each and every usage, as any mistake can be fatal. I know insulin is necessary in many cases, but it requires a lot of precision and knowledge to use it appropriately...
Have a glass of wine and relax Cajun. On the bright side, if one follows ADA recommendations, it really requires very little precision and knowledge.

/smile
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  #68   ^
Old Sat, Jun-28-08, 21:36
lowcarbUgh's Avatar
lowcarbUgh lowcarbUgh is offline
Dazed and Confused
Posts: 2,927
 
Plan: South Beach
Stats: 170/132/135 Female 5'10
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Flip-flop, FL
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I have very good BG levels and I've been taking insulin for 30 years and I'm not afraid of it. I don't consider it a failure or a bad thing. I've never had ANY period of time in my life with out-of-control blood sugar. I had 3 healthy children while taking insulin. It's really not that big of a deal. In fact, it is a quite effective means of controlling diabetes.

Cajun, I feel like you don't understand insulin use well and you certainly don't understand type 1 diabetes. I don't have any past sins to atone for and I'm certainly going to live my life to the best and fullest in every way I can.

Dr. Bernstein doesn't see anything wrong with alcohol consumption and neither do i. He recommends that it not be consumed with meals while on a very low carb diet. I'm not eating 30 carbs a day at this point and plan to keep eating at the level of 50-60 carbs per day. I'm not sure why my practices would bother you. I certainly could care less about your herbal methods. It doesn't bother me in the least.

I don't think wine is appropriate as a primary means to control diabetes. I think as an adjunctive therapy, it is fine.

Last edited by lowcarbUgh : Sat, Jun-28-08 at 21:54.
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  #69   ^
Old Sat, Jun-28-08, 22:07
Cajunboy47 Cajunboy47 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,900
 
Plan: Eat Fat, Get Thin
Stats: 212/162/155 Male 68 "
BF:32/23.5/23.5
Progress: 88%
Location: Breaux Bridge, La
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowcarbUgh
I have very good BG levels and I've been taking insulin for 30 years and I'm not afraid of it. I don't consider it a failure or a bad thing. I've never had ANY period of time in my life with out-of-control blood sugar. I had 3 healthy children while taking insulin. It's really not that big of a deal. In fact, it is a quite effective means of controlling diabetes.


REF: Your Journal.....

Post # 9, 12, 13, 16, 19, 22, 28, 37, 46, 47, 58

They have drugs to help with memory loss....
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  #70   ^
Old Sat, Jun-28-08, 22:15
Korban's Avatar
Korban Korban is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 423
 
Plan: Berstein's
Stats: 220/189/155 Male 68"
BF:
Progress: 48%
Location: S. Carolina US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajunboy47
REF: Your Journal.....

Post # 9, 12, 13, 16, 19, 22, 28, 37, 46, 47, 58

They have drugs to help with memory loss....
.............../sigh
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  #71   ^
Old Sat, Jun-28-08, 22:15
lowcarbUgh's Avatar
lowcarbUgh lowcarbUgh is offline
Dazed and Confused
Posts: 2,927
 
Plan: South Beach
Stats: 170/132/135 Female 5'10
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Flip-flop, FL
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For a type 1, I have very good BG levels and my A1cs have come in under 5.5 for the past 20 years. I put my journal entires out for other folks to see the issues type 1s have with low carbing and diabetes, especially the effect of low carbing and hypoglycemia. Upping the carbs has really made the difference in that. My last A1c was 4.9.

I really don't have time for anymore pettiness.

Last edited by lowcarbUgh : Sat, Jun-28-08 at 22:32.
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  #72   ^
Old Sat, Jun-28-08, 22:34
Cajunboy47 Cajunboy47 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,900
 
Plan: Eat Fat, Get Thin
Stats: 212/162/155 Male 68 "
BF:32/23.5/23.5
Progress: 88%
Location: Breaux Bridge, La
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amandawood
This article came to me today via one of my Google Alerts. It's about, among other things, apple cider vinegar and mentions that it can be used in connection with diabetes because of its "anti-glycemic" properties. Thought it might be of interest to you guys.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbc.../806230301/1079

It als mentions other studies so it would give you a pointer to look elsewhere. For me the most telling quotation was this:

"Johnston argues the lack of studies is about the lack of a copyright.

'We just really haven't put (vinegar) to the test,' Johnston says. 'There's no funding for it. The drug companies obviously will spend a lot of money trying to demonstrate the efficacy of their products, but with a natural remedy there's no copyright on it, so who are you going to go to?' Johnston asks."


That says it all really. For all we know, there may be hundreds of natural remedies out there, but our doctors will never tell us because they only know about synthetic drugs produced by Big Pharma.

Thank goodness we have the internet today! I have made so many discoveries about natural remedies which work from the internet. I have suffered from two minor complaints in recent years where antibiotics were prescribed but didn't work, so that I then turned to the internet for information and hey presto, I found non-prescription, OTC herbal tablets in one case and tea tree oil did the trick in the other case!

Happy Reading!
amanda


Amanda,

You are so right! There are many natural remedies out there.... Happy hunting for all the things you're looking for and hopefully you'll keep enjoying improved health.

Just like you, prescription drugs failed me and I turned to the internet and discovered "natural remedies" as you did and I'm way better off for it.

I'm sure you realize as I do that traditional western medicine is a viable answer for many people, but when it fails us, it is good to know there are alternatives.

I want to apologize to you for hijacking your thread. I was wrong. I won't be doing that anymore......

I personally want to thank you for caring enough about diabetics to take the time and post this thread even though at one point it disappointed you.

Sincerely,

Ron

Last edited by Cajunboy47 : Sat, Jun-28-08 at 22:35. Reason: spelling
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  #73   ^
Old Sun, Jun-29-08, 04:31
amandawald amandawald is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,737
 
Plan: Ray Peat (not low-carb)
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 164cm
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: Brit in Europe
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Hi Ron,

No probs! I didn't mind in the least having "my" thread "hijacked"!

I am very wary of things that Big Pharma has produced as it often turns out that the "clinical trials" they do are not really as kosher as they pretend they are. The Big Pharma companies are all driven by the profit motive, not by a motivation to help people (that can occasionally be a beneficial side-effect, but it's not their 'raison d'etre'), so I am sceptical about any claims made by a drug company when they announce the success of some new wonder pill.

There isn't an apple cider vinegar lobby, nor a lobby for the zillions of herbal remedies out there. I feel I can trust more the postings I find on the internet placed by real people (OK, I'm not entirely naive, I'm sure some of them are fakes) about their experiences with ACV, or Virgin Coconut Oil or Tea Tree Oil (or whatever). I can read this stuff, make my own conclusions and try them out for myself.

Why should I trust someone just cos they wear a white coat and get a mega salary or some kind of perks from a multinational pharma company?

amanda

Last edited by amandawood : Sun, Jun-29-08 at 04:32. Reason: forgot something...
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  #74   ^
Old Tue, Jul-08-08, 03:03
Cajunboy47 Cajunboy47 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,900
 
Plan: Eat Fat, Get Thin
Stats: 212/162/155 Male 68 "
BF:32/23.5/23.5
Progress: 88%
Location: Breaux Bridge, La
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I went out to a great lunch today. I'll probably post the menu in my journal when I get a chance to get around to it... In the USA, I could not afford this type of meal, it was a supreme meal to top all restaurant meals I've ever had... but that's not my story.....

For drinks, they offered a huge variety of things to select from, but one thing caught my eye. It was Apple Juice with ACV in it.

The indgredients list was in Chinese and English. The first thing listed was water, then apple juice, the apple cider vinegar. It was very good and it is promoted as a health drink.

It got me to thinking about how I could fix myself a concoction when I get home in a few weeks.....

My experiment will be:

2 oz water
1/2 an apple, cored out with peeling
1 tbs ACV
1 tbs yogurt
5 to 10 blueberries
5 or 6 ice cubes

Toss it in a blender and drink. After the initial drink, I will adjust the ACV upward or downward to suit my taste.

The ACV, yogurt, apple and blueberries are all suppose to be good for blood glucose control, so if it tasted good, why not? Hopefully it will, not sure....

Anyway, there were 24 dishes served up on that table today and I ate at least a small amount from every dish. I washed it all down with my Apple juice/ACV drink. They first fill the glass 3/4 of the way up and when it is drank down to the 1/2 mark, it is refilled to the 3/4 mark. I lost count of the number of times it was refilled and how much of that stuff I actually drank, but it was served very cold and the vinegar was barely noticable. Equivalent to a Whiskey Sour without the alcohol, I suppose.....

The meal ended at 1pm, but we didn't get home until 4pm. I did not take my herbs since 530am this morning, so I tested my BG and was expecting a high number. It was 97..... Considering I'm still battling a touch of an intestinal infection, no supplements at lunch time, I did pretty good. I wonder how much impact that drink had....

Anyway, that is one way to down the ACV without the yuk! taste of the vinegar.....
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  #75   ^
Old Tue, Jul-08-08, 05:53
amandawald amandawald is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,737
 
Plan: Ray Peat (not low-carb)
Stats: 00/00/00 Female 164cm
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: Brit in Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajunboy47
The meal ended at 1pm, but we didn't get home until 4pm. I did not take my herbs since 530am this morning, so I tested my BG and was expecting a high number. It was 97..... Considering I'm still battling a touch of an intestinal infection, no supplements at lunch time, I did pretty good. I wonder how much impact that drink had....

Anyway, that is one way to down the ACV without the yuk! taste of the vinegar.....


Well, it certainly didn't do any harm!!! If you've got an intestinal infection, try yoghurt or some Chinese pickles/pickled vegetables. The ACV can't do any harm either. All of these things will keep out the bad bacteria guys and strengthen the good guys! And kombucha might also be available in China. It's drunk in China too apparently.

Not being diabetic, I can add raw honey to my ACV and I also use a good brand of ACV. With the honey it's perfectly drinkable!

I won't be looking at your Chinese menu, though, I can see myself going green with envy!!!

amanda
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