I know Vitamin K has an effect on blood coagulation but I am just saying taking huge amounts of Vitamin D can throw that balance out of whack. Vitamin K deficiency is not the only way to increase your blood clotting time, evidently megadosing with D can do that as well. Whether that involves Calcium metabolism(essential to proper formation of clots) or some other body system I do not know. Vitamin D's ability to slow clotting time and reduce blood clots is well documented on the internet(a google search of "vitamin d" and "clotting" will turn up plenty of hits, mostly related to cancer studies). In cases where blood clotting is a problem I suppose it may be good but in normal people? I don't know. Perhaps taking Vitamin K pills can serve as a good "antidote" for this effect but I for one just use it as one more reason to pop 1,000 IUs of D per day rather than the 100,000 IUs or 50,000 IUs per day that some people recommend as if its completely harmless to do so.

My own position on dosage is that if taking 2,000 IU or less per day will raise an average person's blood levels to 150 nmol/l in 8 weeks which is optimal according to all the researchers then there is absolutely no reason to pop 20,000 IU per day or 50,000 IU per day. In fact its quite possible that the unnecessary excess amounts of D could cause problems rather than benefits or no effects.

Just stumbled across a study that implies too high a D level can cause artery calcification. Sadly this link does not give blood levels of the rabbits in the experiment versus normal rabbit levels of D and Calcium but here it is anyway:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...2&dopt=Abstract

The theory is that for SOME people it won't raise the levels that high. For the very obese the thinking is that the vitamin D never makes it out of the fat cells...

I bet you they weren't feeding the bunnies any vitamin A.

Or calcium....

I am about 1/3 bodyfat and it made it out of my fat cells just fine. Not only that but less than 2000 IU per month had me shooting up to 115 nmol/l in less than 2 months. Even if this theory does apply to some people nobody should be guzzling 150 times the RDA based on a theory and a prayer, instead they should test their D levels before and after supplementation. I have yet to see one person in this entire "experiment" besides one(me) to report normal safe blood levels after following this program. Everyone is either twice the safe toxic blood level or for some reason they have either not taken the D test or reported their results. This thread has been going on for years now. I for one am glad I was skeptical, I just hope I am skeptical and careful enough.




I doubt they fed them A and obviously they did not take blood measurements of A and BetaCarotine either which are easy to get just like D. I hope you are right about the detox effect of A on D and vice versa. Personally I have a bad reaction to the A in fish liver oil, it seems to dry my sinuses and my eyes out so I never take more than 2 tablespoons of CLO but I will consider getting it from cow liver perhaps. Might even consider A and betacarotine blood tests if they are cheap but until then I am going to keep my D intake as low as possible while I research some more.

For those who do not yet know, Zule's daughter posted this info at Zuleika's journal:

I generally agree with your skepticism... while at the same time tinkering with vits as a way to optimize health (for roughly 35 of my 63 years).

One question you may have an answer to.. why is it that Calcium is proposed as a necessary add-in to high D intake? If I understand correctly, it is precisely high serum levels of calcium that is used as a marker for excess D intake.

If the argument is that the high level of calcium is at the expense of bone strength... I wonder about that "solution". Why would one assume still higher levels of calcium would prevent the leaching of calcium from bone?

Just thinking out loud here.

I do not claim to know all of the answers, I have learned many facts about D and Calcium from the people in this thread. We know that the level of Calcium in the blood is maintained through homeostasis and as such is not an indicator as to how much total Calcium is "in the tank" so to speak, i.e. the bones and bone marrow. We also know that PTH and 1,25D are involved in regulating the blood level of Calcium along with other glands. The hormonal "crew" that leeches Calcium from the bones most likely works somewhat independent of the homeostasis crew so putting more Calcium into ones food supply will not necessarily have a bad effect on blood levels, because they can be regulated by the kidneys as a last resort.

So I am guessing the solution is to have a small but steady supply of Calcium every day coming in at a pace that the kidneys can handle so that the bones are replenished properly instead of depleted. The original creator of this thread recommended Calcium, magnesium and chromium supplements as a necessity and some newer people coming in recently are suggesting quality bonemeal and cold pressed bonemeal supplements to replace the Calcium tablets. I am leaning towards the cold pressed bonemeal supplements myself and also added 3mg of Boron per day because I heard it helps bones as well.

I can't believe Zuleika of all people has to have surgery for a brain tumor..and she's been taking vitamin D3 in high doses for awhile..

It makes me a little apprehensive to take vitamin D3 now.

On a less life-threatening note,
do people in this thread think your bone structure is determined solely in the womb and cannot be changed/repaired once you are born..or better yet once you have surpassed childhood and say are 18 years old or older?

I don't. I think the mother's diet and nutrition as she is pregnant, and even before conception, determines the child's bone structure and facial structure.

Applying this to myself, I have pretty good bone structure overall, though the one area that seemed to suffer from who knows what while I was developing in the womb is my lower 1/3 of my face; I have a round skull, high cheekbones, somewhat healthy-looking nose, but my maxilla didn't fully grow out, and I required a palate-widening device when I had my orthodontia done as a child..too bad they didn't extend my maxilla while they were at it..but all in all, it's my mother's fault I'm suffering now. It's amusing she can comment on my teeth yet she's the one that made me like this.

For what its worth, I believe I've read that taking calcium does little to prevent osteoporosis in the elderly.

For the newborn, all that is necessary is in milk, despite the tremendous growth rate.

Between those extremes, there is clearly some kind of hormonal mechanism making a huge difference in how calcium intake is handled internally.

I can't believe you actually said that. That's like saying "D3 will give you cancer/brain tumors." Come on, honestly. She used to take high doses, but recently has only been doing like 7K IUs or so daily as maintenance, which, given the science, I see no problem with. There are so many other factors to cancer than just D3. Please.

I agree- for all we know the D3 may have was protected Zule from things being worst then what they are now. She may be ill but life has given her a chance to fight it and knowing Zule - she will!

She may be low but she is NOT out. Let's all route for her.

Yep, I heard Zule say that she'd be taking 250,000 IU of Vit.D3 if she had cancer - and I'm not sure that all tumors are cancer. Not sure at all. Let's hold a good thought for Zule's spirit that reaches out to help others as a nurturing mother to all. Let's be in prayer for Zule and her family. Let's feel confident that good care is surrounding Zule as she is shuttled to NY for surgery and then is taken to Boston by a caring daughter. Think positive!