Well, I'm not sure. I'm still a newbie at the supplement thing.

I've searched for that vitamin too and cannot find it anywhere! So, yesterday I purchased the Weight Control Centrium. Better than what I have been doing the last two months which was nothing.

I use the Purity Products perfect multi with super greens and ultra-pure omega-3 gold pack. I also take the ultimate HA. You can only get them from their website, but they guarantee the purity. They are the best I have ever tried. And I think they are very reasonably priced. They are at www.purityproducts.com They also have a digestive supplement that I am thinking of trying.

Megsmash,
Purity product are excellent. They were the first to have HA in a non -injectable form.

People, do not buy Centrum, One a days, Costco/Kirkland, Natures made or any cheap vitamins..they are virtually worhtless.

Yes they are cheap, but you will not get the results you are looking for and IMO these products are not better than nothing.

Cheap vitamins = zero health benefits

Just because something is less expensive does not mean that it is inferior.

What scientific studies do you have that show that paying more for a multi-vitamin makes it better?

Dodger,
It absolutely matters when it comes to vitamins. I produce vitamins and I have been in the industry for years and I know how much it costs to produce these products and I know the quality of the raw materials used in these products!

These products are loaded with fillers, artificial dyes and colors and inorganic/unabsorbable minerals.

Scientific studies? I don't need them..I know first hand.

But you keep on taking your Centrum for $4.99 from Safeway and the best of luck to you.

If you have not found the answer to your question with all these posts over all these years ... I doubt there is anything anyone can say to help you out. We have been through this several times already ... but for those with an open mind and want to learn ... here goes once again.

It typically is three things that spell out the difference between cheap vitamins and expensive vitamins:
1. The number of different vitamins / minerals / antioxidants
2. The amount of each ingredient
3. The form of each ingredient

A quick example. Centrum vitamin A says "Vitamin A 3500 IU (29% as Beta Carotene)". Meaning 71% is synthetic vitamin A. Whereas a high priced vitamin says "Pro-Vitamin A 15,000 IU (as natural carotenoids: beta carotene, alpha carotene, lutein, zeaxanthin, cryptoxanthin) Betatene®". Four times as much and 100% natural mixture of different carotenoids (all the great things in vegetables that are the reason you are suppose to eat veggies).

Now which do you think will help your body more?

#1 is easy to compare -- except you have to look at the other two also. If some vitamin says 10mg of CoQ10 - well 10mg won't do anything. Also if a cheap vitamin says "synthetic" while a more expensive brand says "all natural mixture of different sources" (as in the vitamin A example above).

#2 is easy to compare -- with the same caveats as #1. The cheap vitamins have the RDA values whereas the expensive vitamins have optimal values.

Regarding #3

First there are synthetic versions of most vitamins and minerals that the body does not like. For example, synthetic vitamin A. Some would even say synthetic vitamins are toxic to the body unless they are taken in small doses. If most vitamins were synthetic -- I would agree that synthetic vitamins are of little use, waste of money, and could be dangerous. Just like prescription drugs (which you can think of as synthetic supplements).

But natural forms of these same vitamins and minerals would be of course more expensive to produce -- so would cost the vitamin manufacturers more -- which costs consumers more.

For example, see

http://www.greatvistachemicals.com/vitamins-vitamin/

In most cases vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, herbs, etc can not be patented and so therefore everyone sells generic versions. But some companies do a lot of research on how they can get better results, get the supplement to be better absorbed, get the supplement into one form or another in the body, etc. Then these results are patentable, and the company can charge additional money for this version of the vitamin.

The body converts vitamins / minerals / supplements into other chemicals / hormones / amino acids / proteins which in turn converted into more chemicals (etc). The chemical pathways are kind of like branches on a tree.

How your body determines which of these pathways to trigger depends on what your body needs and what other chemicals / hormones (etc) your body has that are involved in the pathway. So your body may say "I really need to create this chemical -- but I don't have enough of vitamin X and mineral Y".

So different forms of a supplement can get it further down one of these pathways. So one company can say "form A is better because it gets it further down this pathway" while another company can say "form B is better because it gets it down this other pathway"

Hence, why I stress to people to take a "mega" multivitamin -- give your body as many of the basic nutrients it needs -- and then it has the resources to follow whatever pathways it needs to follow.

So now that you understand the basic differences -- compare this:
http://www.centrum.com/products/labeling_centrum.asp

to this:
http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Synergy...-3-60-Packets-1

notice:
1. The number of different ingredients
2. The amount of each ingredient
3. The form of each ingredient.

I don't like to post these next links because I look like I am trying to sell Vitacost. The truth is -- Vitacost provides a lot of this information that the companies do not provide. If you know of other companies that provide this information then please post it.

http://www.vitacost.com/Company/aboutnsi.cfm

This next web page lists most of the patented forms of supplements that are available. To find out why that version of the supplement is better requires you to google that brand name and the manufacturer's website should come up and you can learn a lot more about each supplement.

http://www.vitacost.com/company/index.cfm

Good Ol' Ke..I knew you would come through!

Thanks buddy.

So I am to take the opinion of someone that produces vitamins that their expensive vitamin is better than a cheaper one. I actually expect science to back up health claims, not personal opinions.

Either accept their opinon, do the research your self, or try it on yourself. I mean, today you can find scientific studies to back up any claim you want.

We have posted hundreds, if not thousands, of research studies in this forum over the past several years that would show the benefits of taking supplements.

I contend that the big pharma and health experts go find some "scientist" will to accept hundreds of thousands of $ to do a study that concludes nutrition does nothing for you, is a waste of $, and could be dangerous!

But, why do "health experts" say - eat your fruit and vegetables? There has to be something good in them? What is it? What if we could extract the good stuff and leave the water, sugar, and carbohydrates behind?

I think the fundamental reasoning starts out -- why would anyone take supplements? Which anyone that has followed Atkins diet understands -- you can dramatically change your health for the better -- by simply changing your nutrition.

So then the next question is - why supplements and not eat a well balanced meal?

This is itself, a very long answer. If all we had were synthetic supplements -- then I would vote for well balanced meals. As in all organic foods (veggies, fruit, meat - all organic). But organic food costs 2 to 3 times as much. My food bill is already like $600 per month. Taking it up to $1,200 to $1,800 is not thinkable.

So even the $300 per month "super vitamin" is cheaper.

The nutrition of each vegetable, fruit, and piece of meat depends greatly on the soil. With synthetic fertilizers -- they can get almost anything to grow in almost any crappy soil. Whereas before synthetic fertilizers (i.e. 75 to 100 years ago) you had to have great soil -- which was a great source of vitamins and minerals to the plants and animals -- which was a great source of vitamins and minerals to us (those that eat the plants and animals).

But today - soil pretty much $#%#~. So everytime you bought some food, you would have to analyze it -- to see what its nutritional content was.

I have an open mind and want to learn, that is why I ask questions. So far my questions have gone unanswered. Show me the data that an expensive vitamin is better than a cheap one. I'm sure the suppliers of the expensive ones must have done a study and had it published somewhere.

Just because something has more ingredients does not make it better.

Just because something has more of a particular ingredient does not make it better.

Just because a vitamin has a more expensive form of an ingredient does not make it better.

You tell me that natural forms are better and then you tell me that patented forms are better.

I get my nutrients from my food. A multivitamin is a supplement, not a primary provider of nutrients.

Here is the information on the multi that I take. Notice that the supplier also says how great it is, just like your supplier. Marketing claims don't impress me whether it is your supplier or mine.

You'll also notice that the cost of mine is under 3 cents per day, while yours is over $9 a day. With that extra nine dollars a day, I could buy lots of natural food that provides many of nutrients not found in your multi. I find it hard to believe that you would expect anyone to pay over $9 a day for a multi-vitamin.

P.S. Your multi only has 1/3 of the vitamin D that I supplement with. My greater quatity of natural D3 is only a few cents a day.

Well, I'm in the middle of this argument.

I'm gunho for supplements.

I was an organic gardener. I know soil nowadays is crap, especially commercial, unorganic soil. I've seen the nutrient composition of each. I've also seen the study that compared the nutrient study of vegetables since they started studying nutrients of vegetables, and had the capacity, to the nutrient content of today's vegetables. There is no doubt that vegetables today are much less nutritious. So I think everyone should supplement to some extent and certainly more so if there is a family history of a genetic link, which I'm starting to doubt there are many of, or suseptabilty to certain diseases. Frankly, I believe anyone over the age of 23 needs to be supplementing.

I don't necessarily believe the more expensive the better. Except for one a day types of most brands, of course. I do believe the quality of the vitamin, mineral, supplement is very important but quality can be found at all price points.

A case in point is calcium. You can spend a lot of money on calcium; coral, oyster shell, patented, etc....but when they did a study on how the different forms of calcium were absorbed, there wasn't really much difference...not enough to justify purchasing the more expensive or specially formulated forms.

More important to me is obtaining an effective form and one with the fewest fillers, especially reactive fillers, obtainable. And while a one a day type is never sufficient, a good quality one can be a good starting point.

While I might hear of a component/supplement and find initial information on a proprietary or company website I always search for results of original tests and trials. I do a lot of research on supplements, effective dose, interactions, synergies, and results. I take a boatload of supplements. But some supplements aren't in my regimen because they would be cost prohibitive at the dose needed to be effective or I have a cheaper alternative or combination that does the job just as well or better.

I'm highly sceptical of proprietary and informational websites. I want to know their agenda, sponsorship, and profit motive. I have nothing against someone making money but I want to be sure they are selling/advocating a quality product that I can't get somewhere else cheaper and just as effective.

I don't need bells and whistles and someones' name on something. Does it work? Is the price worth it to me? Can I afford it as part of my life-long supplement program.

That's why I like swansonvitamins.com. They don't have crap, their supplements are high quality though some have more fillers than I like. They respond to their customers...they added the 1,000 IU D3 and cinnamon at my suggestion. They carry their regular and premium brands as well as name and proprietary brands and a lot of different formulations and forms of supplements. You can spend as much as you can afford and a lot less than alternate sources. They carry a range of products at many price points. They stay up on the latest trends and research and also have a link on their website to Vitasearch and Healthnotes which contains the latest trial/research results in many vitamin/supplement areas.

So I use swansons for most of my supplements but I do go elsewhere when the dose or quality is not available there.

That's my take on this.

Here is a swanson multivitamin with minerals. This would cost 3.5 cents/day Notice the nutrients here vs your brand; the forms of the nutrients are better than the forms in your brand. Notice that the vitamin A is completely from fish liver. Man-made vitamin A is toxic and beta-carotene is practically useless (it's converted, if it's even converted to vitamin A at 12:1). The sodium and acetate forms of vitamins are mostly unusable by the body. The swanson brand would be a better use of your money, JMO.

While there's nothing wrong with kebaldwin's supps, I think they are overpriced and I don't like his forms of vitamin A.

JMO, you can get a lot more bang for your buck by starting with a good multi and customizing/adding on what you need in the amounts you need them in.

Again, JMO, it comes down to research.

IMHO - There is no way anyone with an open mind can

1. can go through all the hundreds (or thousands) of studies that have been published in this forum

2. go through all the links to patented forms of supplements that I posted

and not find any information that

1. More supplements than found in Centrum is good

2. That high amounts than what is found in Centrum is good

3. That different forms of vitamins are better for you than other forms.

Wow Dodger, you sure got us there!! Costco Kirkland( which is garbage) compared to another garbage product Centrum.

I understand if budgetary limitations would steer one toward a grocery store vitmain. That would be the only reason one should take tripe such as that.

It is not my opinion..it is my job, knowledge and experience.

Do you need scientific data to know that a Yugo is not up to par with a Ferrari?

Do you need scientific data to know that a chuck steak is not up to par with a filet mignon?



Does it not make sense to you? I'm not sure you are looking for validation or to justify things to your self,but 3 cents a day? You're gonna throw that out there? How can you possibly think you are doing ok with 3 lousy cents a day?

You have much to learn about vitamins AND FOOD my friend As KE says our soil is so depleted that our food is not what it once was. Supplementation is almost a necesstiy these days.

So for gods sakes, why not take the best products you can? Especially if health is the issue.

When it come to supplements..CHEAP IS NEVER GOOD..PERIOD