Interesting about the lower cholesterol detriment.

I'm not going to spend time worrying about it or alter my low carb plan. Thanks for the reassurance.

athena11. Low cholesterol and hemorrhagic stroke are MAINLY confined to older men over 60 with high blood pressure. Blood pressure is the key for keeping this type of stroke at bay. This is the truth, Cindy knows this because I've shown the studies countless times on here. Unless they've been ignored... There are also the possibilities of nutritonal deficiencies in Vitamin C and Copper which are important in preventing these type of strokes. Smoking, alcohol, high blood pressure and aging of the vascular system are risk factors. Although if you look at the data, the risk of having a ICH is far less at whatever low level than having moderately high level of serum cholesterol.


I should note that the low blood cholesterol may be genetic with me, so i'm not exactly a perfect example of cholesterol lowering using diet. None of my family on my fathers side have had a heart attack before, at least not in the last few decades. The ones alive now ranging from 35 years to 92 years are still going good. I'm quite close with my family, we all live near each other and their cholesterol range from 130-160 ~ mg/dl. They all have low blood pressure too (same as mine). My father also has extremely low cholesterol and same bp as me.

(1)Low Total Serum Cholesterol and Intracerebral Hemorrhagic Stroke: Is the Association Confined to Elderly Men?

-High alcohol intake was a statistically significant risk factor for ICH stroke in women. Alcohol consumption may contribute to the development of ICH by several pathways: increased blood pressure (via increased cortisol and catecholamine production and alteration of intracellular calcium)

-the association of cigarette smoking with thrombotic and subarachnoid hemorrhagic stroke is well established

- in these data, the relation is confined to men with advanced age (65 to 89 years)

-Moreover, increased blood pressure, high alcohol consumption, cigarette smoking (particularly among women), and bleeding disorders seem to play an important role.

-Thus, public health efforts to prevent the sequela or death by ICH stroke should concentrate on the detection and treatment of modifiable causes, namely, hypertension, alcohol abuse, and cigarette smoking.
http://stroke.ahajournals.org/cgi/c...full/27/11/1993

Trials on blood pressure–lowering and secondary stroke prevention
Volume 91, Issue 10, Supplement 1 , 22 May 2003, Pages 3-8

- These benefits were associated with an average reduction of 9.0 mm Hg (SBP) and 4.0 mm Hg (DBP). The 28% reduction in stroke incidence translated into a 24% reduction in ischemic stroke and a 50% reduction in hemorrhagic stroke.

Normally I refuse to respond to your posts. There have been dozens of responses by others that dispute your claims, but you choose to ignore them.

"high" blood pressure does indeed lead to stroke with weakened blood vessels. BUT what is HIGH for one person may be considered NORMAL for another, at least in relation to stroke risk.

As a RN with over 30 yrs experience, I can tell you that BP does not have to be considered clinically high (Systolic over 130, diastolic over 80) for someone to stroke out!!!

The very first case I had as a student is a great example. I had a patient that was in his mid-30s who was admitted for a question of a TIA (transient ischemic attack), often a precurser to stroke. (This was back in the 70s when you WERE admitted for things like this).

This man had been on strict bedrest, in a private room, and his BP was being checked every 15 min. It never went over 120/70, in fact one doc was worried that his BP was too LOW!!! Well, about 15 min after I left one night he sneezed and stoked out!

So yes, high BP does lead to the stroke, but if the blood vessles are weak enough then the BP levels can be "normal" but still a person is at risk.

When you check your BP you should be at rest. Resting, relaxed and calm. But when you get mad, agitated, stressed your BP can go up significantly. Some people may only have a slight rise under stress, many have a significant rise.

My dad had high BP that was "well controlled" when he stroked at age 65. His sister had a stroke at age 55 and always had normal BP. A friend had a stroke with "normal" BP, 30 min after she left the MD office with a severe headache. I could go on, but you get the idea.

The main thing to remember, however, is that cholesterol is needed for virtually every cell in your body. The production of many hormones is dependent on cholesterol.

While we have been pushing low fat diets and cholesterol lowering medications we have NOT lowered the incidence of heart disease and stroke. We have increased the survival rates, but not the incidence.

In my opinion the best thing to do is to watch your inflammation markers. LDL isn't a problem, but oxidised LDL is. So I feel it is much more important to get good quality fats and as many natural anti-oxidants (found in fruits and veggies) as possible. If your inflammation markers are elevated, figure out why and treat that.

Today it is almost possible to find literature that supports just about any opinion. But you have to look not only at the study, but the actual data and the connections of the researchers. So much of our research is funded today by the drug industry or the food industry that it makes their validity questionable. The current cholesterol recommendations are very much influenced by the drug companies. Companies that have a great deal to win or loose from these levels. And, despite even studies that show that it's not the numbers but the inflammation, the drug companies and main-stream medicine are still pushing lower and lower numbers....and targeting younger and younger people.

Just my 2 cents.

I think that if you're not constantly sustaining damage to your arteries from whatever cause, then the need for abundant serum cholesterol is not necessary. Although I do agree with you that inflammation is one thing that needs to be kept in check if you want to prevent heart attacks, and even I.S and H.S. A short little article on low blood pressure here at the

british heart foundation
http://www.bhf.org.uk/questions/ind...thirdlevel=1210

"What is low blood pressure?
If your blood pressure is below 90/60 mmHg then you have low blood pressure. This does not necessarily indicate a problem. People with low blood pressure are generally regarded as fortunate because they tend to live longer than those with high blood pressure and even those with normal blood pressure."

This is probably from reducing what I mention above. So not just having normal blood pressure, but reducing it further still can have preventative effects. Although not everyone can get their blood pressure down, so maybe low cholesterol would not be a smart idea for them. Like for me I have a total cholesterol of 109mg/dl but I also have a blood pressure of 90/60. The the damage to my arteries from this cause is very small.

My idea of prevention is to keep everything low risk, then you are likely to be covered from all "theories" or things that are supposed to contribute to the disease you don't want. Then it doesn't really matter which is the truth, one of them is going to be correct or be a more dominant factor.

IMO Athena. If you want to def make sure you have protection you want to look at everything that has been associated with heart disease. Then in a case where some things might be correct, and some things wrong... Then so what? When you have all in the low risk area anyway.

CRP - any inflammation in the body
White Blood Count (related to inflammation) - Women with more than 6.7 billion white cells per liter of blood had more than double the risk of fatal heart disease than women with 4.7 billion cells per liter or lower!)
Fasting Glucose - Another thing implicated in heart disease
Very high insulin sensitivty - very important
Being lean - Heart disease rises with every increase in BMI
Normal-high bilirubin - Protects from heart disease
Very low triglycerides - Very important one
Low Total cholesterol - no one has ever died of a heart attack in the framingham study with cholesterol below < 150mg/dl
Low blood pressure - protects from both types of stroke
TNF-a - Inflammation marker
Fe - Implicated in heart disease when high (men most at risk)

also the triglycerides

It was just the cholesterol that was a concern.

I'm new to this issue. I'm really not interested in taking drugs to offset the cholesterol (unless it's absolutely necessary).

As opposed to the younger men over 60?

Yikes!! I'll bet their immune systems were in the cellar, too.

Well WBC typically goes down... but immune function improves. Take a read of this over in another thread: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showpost...28&postcount=91

Low cholesterol is a bad thing and a significant risk factor for several diseases, mental and physical impairments. A total cholesterol of 109 mg/dl is a poor number and indicates substantial risk; it is not a optimal value as a preventative for all disease.

There are several good low-carb books on the subject. Why don't you educate yourself and read at least one low-carb book?

Again, we aren't talking about risks specific to heart attack for low cholesterol numbers, but all cause mortality, which increases for men. Also, as discussed previously ad infinitum, there are other non-mortal diseases, like memory impairment, which surface with low cholesterol...

Actually i'm not even going to bother carrying this any further mutant... believe what you want to believe. The last thing I will say on this topic is that disease and can cause both high cholesterol and very low cholesterol. But so can diet.

Cholestrol is a nutrient, not a poison. High cholestrol numbers do not cause disease but merely a sign that something is wrong e.g. one possible cause can be too much carbohydrate in the diet. This is a fact well known to low-carb dieters that read low-carb books i.e. not you. Abnormally low cholesterol can be induced through diet, that is, if you think starving yourself to the point the normal human metabolism is supressed (i.e. farked up) is a 'diet'. As cholestrol is a nutrient and building block for things like brain tissue and sex hormones, low cholestrol negatively effect these systems. Well, I guess negative to almost everyone that likes to have sex and use their brains anyway. I can admit that a small subpopulation possessing blind devotion to a strange diet cult with odd objectives and desires might not view brain and sexual disfunction negatively.

"The stress dropped you cholesterol to an unhealthy 120mg/dl? "
It is not a for sure fact that cholesterol of 120
is unhealthy.Lots of controversy about the
importance of low cholesterol/high cholesterol.
Eddie

Look at the gooey sticky stuff in a raw egg.
That's cholesterol.It's hard to believe that a
lot of that stuff in your blood is good.
I personally am comfortable with total cholesterol around 170 but that's me.
Eddie