ACK!! I wanted to pm you but you have it turned off!

ACK! ok my bad, and my apologies to both sets of doctors. i remember reading CAD, but preferred dr. atkins approach to everything.


at the risk of sounding like i'm defending jds (which i'm not), let's remember that the number of posts does not a newbie make... the CONTENT of the posts is the key. the day i joined this board, i had more experience lowcarbing than some of the "senior" members... and the only reason i'm stepping up and saying something is because i was recently accused of not knowing what i was talking about simply because i'd only joined the board a few months ago.

Another compromiser, wo I never would have thought there would be so many here

Where do I even begin in setting you straight ...



Sorry, but anyone who FOLLOWS ATKINS begins with an induction period in which carbohydrates are limited to 20 grams per day. Its NOT optional for anyone who is REALLY following Atkins. If you are having 30g or 40g per day, then you are NOT doing the ATKINS INDUCTION phase.

Is this really so difficult to understand?



Ok so which are you following? Atkins or the Eades? Or more likely, neither. The Atkins diet does not allow you a "free hour", or any other kind of such silliness and cheating.



Yes you are, and actually it is fine with me if you want to abandon principles. Just do not claim it is ok for others to do it too. And do not claim to be following Atkins, and them give advice that is the opposite of what Dr. Atkins would have said.

The Atkins diet DOES work. If you want to change it, I am sorry .. it is not yours to change. If you want to create your own plan, and use a hodgepodge of ideas from various sources ... feel free .. just dont blame your results on Dr. Atkins, or claim that Dr. Atkins would have approved of some of the silly things other diets claim are "ok"



I do not know the IQ of either. But I do know that the Atkins diet is the most successful diet created, and the book is the best selling diet book ever printed.

I also know that Dr. Atkins personally supervised thousands of weight loss patients at his clinic while they did his diet, and a Ketone test was done on every visit.

As another person has already quoted in this thread, Dr. Atkins said that Ketone test strips are "a valuable tool". wbahn says they are "just a game".

Well everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess. Just as I am entitled to believe that Dr. Atkins had a little bit more insight into weight loss after supervising thousands of weight loss patients

The rest of your post I consider Ad Hominem and will not respond to it.

Your analogy doesn't really apply here.

If you like the Ford, then drive the Ford. If you like the Chrysler, drive the Chrysler.

Questions about Ketosis or Ketostix do not mean much to a person following Southbeach. They mean a lot to a person following Atkins.

I have no problem at all giving the Southbeach Answer to someone who asks a Southbeach Question.

The real issue in this thread is that one person who claims to be driving a Ford, was giving Chevrolet advice to others who asked about the Ford

i'm confused...you sound like a smart man who wouldn't be a hypocrite and yet if i'm not mistaken, you are...why argue for the sake of arguing.. can't chastise someone (who never said btw he goes above 20 you just implied he did) for giving his view on the atkins diet that he follows vs other low carb plans. u yourself said this in a reply to sunny under your introduction to this board:

Lettuce is a problem for me though, it is hard for me to eat salad every day. Most of the time I throw it out because it goes bad before I eat it. I need more motivation in that area i guess I can stay in ketosis at 30-40g of carbs a day, and more if I excercise.

...it's not like you to disobey dr. atkins, you know who he is right?

ATMOS? At My Old School?

He may indeed know a lot. Sounds like it. After enough of these posts, I'm actually a little amused by someone who comes into a community and immediately starts criticizing how many of the members are working their plans. He's telling members that they're not doing Atkins induction, when they've been around for several thousand posts and presumably, would no longer BE on Atkins induction, were they necessarily following Atkins in the first place.

It's a LC board. It may very well BE that Atkins is the best. However, it's a LC board.

"Where do I even begin in setting you straight?" For crying out loud. Whew! "Take what works and leave the rest" has worked for most of us on these boards for a while. How well does that approach work in his personal life?

JDS has not limited himself to responding to the OP. He's criticized pretty much all of us for responding with opinions he doesn't think are correct. OK. I find it amusing.

straight? me? i've been accused of being so by-the-word-of-dr.-a that i'm damn near militant about it, i've had the list of acceptable induction foods tattooed on my eyeballs for 8 years, and you want to set ME straight?




let's go back and re-evaluate the discussion, shall we? you insisted that the only way to be in ketosis was to consume no more than 20g of carbs per day. i wasn't commenting on induction, i was talking about being in ketosis in general. i'm well aware that the 20g benchmark was noted because it's the amount that will send pretty much everyone into ketosis.

this isn't about staying on induction... this is about how many grams of carbs per day can the human body ingest and still stay in ketosis. for some of us it's 60g, for some of us it's 25. and guess what sweetheart... there are more phases to atkins than just induction.




as with wbahn, all you have to do is look in the upper right hand corner of my posts to see what plan i follow. i decided NOT to follow CAD mainly because i did NOT like the idea of that "free hour". atkins gives me the rigidity and structure i need to stay on track... CAD doesn't.




where have i contradicted him? in ANY of the posts i have made, much less this thread, do you see me telling people that induction isn't important, or that they can bounce all over the place with OWL? if anything, i've championed the older versions (1992) of the book and told people NOT to eat the bars or have sugar alcohols that are clearly allowed in the 2002 edition.


it is my body, it is my WOL, and since i was not under the personal care of dr. atkins himself, then yes if i see that something in his instructions isn't working for whatever reason, it is up to me to change it to something that IS working. it doesn't matter if that means staying away from certain vegetables that he says are fine to have or having my morning coffee. you're failing to grasp the importance of YMMV.

keep something else in mind... weight watchers and jenny craig also work. their downfall is that for the people who faithfully stick to the plan and still cannot lose weight is that they won't change that person's plan to something that WILL work. they are dogmatic about their practices, and leave people in the lurch. yes, atkins works FAR better than weight watchers could ever dream to, but it must still be adjusted when things go wrong.




yes... but he can't do that anymore, can he?


again, this is a personal choice. as you have seen from many other posts, you can be in ketosis and not register on the stix... things like hydration and exercise play a HUGE part in whether or not those stix react. i even have problems with different brands of stix registering differently. they are nothing more than an indicator. the whole point of lowcarbing is to lose weight and make a lifestyle change, not see who can make the stix turn the darkest color of purple. so now that others have quoted saint robert's very words regarding the ketostix to you, can you at least have the good grace to accept his guidance about them, if not admit that you were mistaken?

i use the stix about once a day. there have been days i've gotten a negative reading and i know i've ingested less than 20g of carbs. so what's that mean? am i in ketosis or not? if i check a couple of hours later, the stick turns a nice moderate color. but do i have to check EVERY SINGLE TIME i pee?




actually the only part of my post that could possibly have been considered ad hominem would be the part about me calling you a zealot and to get off your soapbox... but i left that out.

I can speak from experience on the CAD issue. I spent quite a while following it, and purchased some ketostix when I was considering going back to Atkins. Out of curiousity, I tested before changing plans. I registered positive on the freshly-opened ketostix, even though my carb levels were MUCH higher than 20 grams. I would guess my carbs in the daily reward meal had to have been in the 60-80 gram range a lot of days, and that's not counting the veggie carbs from the other low-carb meals in the day.

Well it seems that a lot of people are offended, because I posted that a person should follow the Atkins diet by the book, and not rationalize or compromise away its principles.

I have been criticized for stating that Ketosis and 20g of carbs per day are not optional on Atkins induction. If you read the posts of the person who started this thread, he says he is on day 8 of induction. His question is about Ketosis.

The responses from several of you is that in so many words, dont worry about getting a reading on Ketostix, that is only "a game". And people can lose weight without being in Ketosis anyway, so it really isn't necessary.

This person is just beginning the Atkins diet, and several of you are advising him not to follow it!!

Can you see how silly that is? I dont care if you have been doing your own version of Atkins for many years ... this person is JUST BEGINNING and is in INDUCTION. To tell the person that following the rules in the book is not really important will subvert the whole plan for this person.

And I can only laugh at those who said because I only posted 37 times that everything I say should be dismissed. I guess that is why Dr. Atkins advice is dismissed on here, since he didn't post on here 3000 times

If several of you feel that you have moved beyond Dr. Atkins in your knowlege of dieting, that is ok with me ... but when a new person just beginning Atkins asks a question, you should NEVER tell them that it isn't important to follow the program!

Any person who truly follows Atkins "by the book" will make it to the lifetime maintenance phase, and in that phase each individual will have experimented with different foods and carb levels. But to try to impose what you learned on a person new to the diet and encourage them to bypass the induction phase is subverting their motivation to start a program like Atkins.

I dont know what more to say here. I am very surprised to find a number of people here on a low-carb board that is friendly to Atkins actually teaching new people that induction, ketosis and ketostix are not really needed.

These things are what makes Atkins different than all the "other low-carb" diets, and these things are the reason why Atkins works where other diets fail.

If I am not welcome here because I have only posted 37 times, I guess I will move on. Good luck to you all, and to all who follow your electic mish-mash of conflicting ideas and bad advice.

let's go back and look at the original post, shall we?

now jds, explain to me where the issue of being in ketosis while on induction is in the above phrasing. what he really asked was, can someone be in ketosis based on burning dietary fat instead of just body fat? and exactly where did he ask about carb gram counts?

nobody told him to skip induction, nobody told him not to follow the book, and actually, this question shows the perfect instance where the stix aren't going to give a true reading. when i upped my fat intake, my stix turned darker purple. when i brought it back to "normal" amounts (normal for my cooking and eating), they went back to small and trace. either way, i was still in ketosis.

and dude, i made the point that it's the content of the posts, not how many times someone has posted, that matters. if you're going to leave, then your high horse should stay behind... some of us are hungry.

I'd rather have a helping of Sacred Cow, please.

sorry got to quote myself here for all of you that missed what a hypocrite he is..he said in his response under his introduction that he does eat 30-40 grams a day and still stays in ketosis...

This thread is exactly why I follow a low gi diet - I don't have to worry about ketosis!

It actually does apply as the I was referring to your quote below.



[QUOTE=jds8957]
Your attitude shows a lot of disrespect for Dr. Atkins. You want to trumpet all the "other low-carb" plans that are just copies of Atkins with just enough variation that the author can claim his/hers is "better than Atkins".

The fact is that all of these other diets (including Southbeach) took at least 90% of their material from Dr. Atkins, who was the true medical pioneer.
[QUOTE=jds8957]


It seems you are so busy being disagreeable that you can no longer keep track of what you are fighting about. I was refering to your statement of fact, that Dr. Atkins was the original and all others were basically mimics and thieves. At no point in that statement did you recognize any other low carb plan as being good or well deserving of compliment, let alone use. Nor did you at any time say that you would be happy to offer your obvious expertise on Southbeach to others.
Most people here are smart enough to realize that the human body is an amazingly complex system, and that no two are exactly alike. We all have the same basic construction, but the varriables that each persons body must respond to, like environment, genetics, and metabolic degeneration based on past eating habits, cause different results.
Most of the reasonable people here are willing to accept that YMMV.
Also, those of us following the Atkins plan do have respect for the plan itself (why else would we be on it, let alone here discussing it with others), however Dr Atkins was meerely a very intelligent and successfull human, not a god or a scientific keeper of all knowledge.

Fact: Ketositx are not infalliable as they are man-made.
Fact: Ketosis can be effected by any number of factors.

If you value the results, use them, if not then don't. Nobody cares either way ,and the LC police are not lurking outside your bathroom door to make sure you use them.
As far as a ketone test being part of every Atkins visit, fine, I wasn't personally there for each and every one so I can't comment on that. Every time I go to the doctor, I am asked to pee in a cup, that doesn't mean I am supposed to always pee in a cup at home (I hope).

This forum is not designed to be a vortex of negativity, and worship of Robert Atkins,(as this thread had become), it is designed as a peer to peer sharing of information regarding various forms of LC eating. Nobody is forcing you to abandon your principals or compromise your deeply intrenched morals regarding Atkins and ketostix, we are meerly speaking what we believe to be the truth based on our own personal experiences.

After doing a search for all of your past posts, it's interesting to see how many of them are disagreeable, antagonistic, and stated as fact. It seems as though you have an M.O. to perpetuate.

I wish the best with your search for eternal Atkins-dom, and a life filled with purple ketostix.
I, and I'm sure many others here, will continue to to follow the plan as laid out in the book, (using rules as rules and suggestions and options at my discretion),with continued success, and will continue to support my fellow low carb friends as I see fit. I will, at your advice, not presume to tell anyone that I know better than the Great and Powerfull Oz-kins.

Please enjoy disagreeing with this post as much as you have disagreed with others. I envy the spare time you must have to keep quoting and posting and arguing with every person that does not share your exact thoughts, and strangely enough, even some of those that have stood up for you or taken your side on certain issues.
I should also point out that there is a "war zone forum" that I'm sure you will find greatly to your liking.
Happy Holidays and God bless!

*bows in deep respect to sandra* and now i have the strangest images of pigs in uniforms of varying colors of purple and pink standing outside my bathroom door .