AH HAHAHAAA! Love it! Especially the "Neandernut" part -- very clever!

Hi, Foodie!

Thanks for the B/D happies. I'm actually pretty depressed today. I can't believe I'm actually that old and nothing that I really ever planned has happened. I'm never going to be rich. I'll never be famous...not that I ever really wanted that. I'll never make much of a mark on the world...however I have four daughters, all grown and productive members of society...one is pregnant with our first grandchild, one is finishing her PhD, one is almost a Captain in the Air Force, one is getting married and attending college and opening her first Art Exhibit/Show...well, actually...that's not so bad, huh? Maybe I'm just being self-indulgent and should stop this crap! Hey! 55 is better than the alternative!

I'll try to get my wife to give me the recipe for the marinade and the brisket. It was really good! Tonight I'm having left-overs.

captxray and any others on the paleolithic WOE:

What do you generally eat at each of the three daily meals, especially for breakfasts? And do you usually snack between meals?

We had eggs for breakfast today. Each of us (my husband and I) had a snack mid-morning of fruit. Then a large salad for lunch, with chicken in it. A snack of nuts and seeds at mid-afternoon. Then we're going to have another large salad for dinner with beef in it and some vegetables that were cooked yesterday with the meat. Does that sound similar to what some of you are eating?

I felt really good and energetic during our four mile walk early morning. Then I had a real energy crash after eating the fruit. But I recovered after eating lunch. My husband's medical test on May 16th showed his triglycerides are a little high (220, and should be 200) so we're thinking we need to cut down on the fruit. Have any of you had a similar experience with fruit? The fruit was banana too -- doesn't grow locally -- couldn't have gone out and got it for ourselves in the bush.

Dandi

Hi Dandi. I just rec'd an email notification that you had posted something in this thread (which is weird because i have my settings here toggled to NOT receive email notifications! LOL) At any rate, this is the first time in a lonnnng time anybody's written anything here, and i haven't been here in quite a while since it appears that the forum is dead/deserted. Oh well it was fun while it lasted. There is a more active Neanderthin/Paleonutrition forum over at lowcarbeating.com. Can't think of the exact url at the moment but feel free to email me (serious212 at yahoo.com) and i'll find that link for you.

As far as your questions and eating plan, that sounds very similar to most of the ones i've read that other people are doing, but if you're experiencing that sort of energy drop after eating fruit, then you certainly might want to consider omitting fruit for a while, or go for the lower-glycemic fruits, such as berries. Or, if you really like bananas and other sweet fruits, save them for a late-evening/bedtime snack.

Best wishes!
Foodie

Maybe we can get this thread active again! Foodie212, I would like to get that address, too. It gets a little lonely, here, at times. These Atkins people don't really understand our "primitive ways."

Dandi, I cut fruit and nuts out of my diet for a while, based upon what you said about your husband's triglycerides, and I've already dropped the two pounds I gained back almost five weeks ago...I'm going to keep at this over the weekend and see if I notice any other difference. I really love the fruit...and nuts...but we'll see. I know it must be something that has caused this plateau. I do not snack...until nighttime...late...then I eat fruit...or nuts. I think, not a good idea...I suspect that you may have a slightly allergic reaction to bananas. I do something with my clients called, "Applied Kinesiology," or the "Muscle Response Test." This test has been proven to be about 90% as effective as the Cytotoxic Blood test that doctors give and charge about $800 for around here. Besides, that test is invasive, in that they stick all sorts of possible allergins into your skin...The Muscle Response Test came to this country with the chiropractors and acupuncturists after the U.S. contact with China back in about 1972. It's very easy and I would be glad to explain it to you if you are interested. My wife (also a therapist) and I have done it with people as a type of "double blind" and it works, every time! People are sometimes, absolutely amazed at the results.

Hi Foodie and captxray,
Thank you for your posts.

Foodie, I do visit lowcarbeating and did register there. So I will likely be posting there too. However, captxray's posts have been very helpful to my husband and I. I really would like to see this thread going well, with lots of inspiration and information. So I hope you'll continue to post here as well as at lowcarbeating.

captxray,
We are familiar with the Muscle Response Test, taught to us by a chiropractic doctor in Yakima, WA who was trained in it. Thanks for reminding me of it.

I cut out all fruit immediately after getting that energy crash. I've decided I'll eat raw vegetables instead. It seems that health is a matter of balance. If a person eats too much of one type of food for a while, then he or she gets out of balance and has to adjust the other way. So no matter how good or natural the food is, if the body gets too much of that type there is a problem until balance is regained.

I look forward to learning much from each of you. Is the Audette book about the best to read on the paleo diet?

Dandi

I have been re-reading Audette's book and he says the main thing to cut back on is fruit if you find weight loss slowing...he says to keep at the nuts, and meat and fat, and veggies, but to try fruit with less sugar, etc,., and eat less of that, too. I did, and voila! I've lost weight! I'm two pounds lighter than I was when I hit the wall five weeks ago! Only 55 more to go! Hey! That's my age! I've started eating melon, and love it, and it hasn't effected my body like the others. Also, ate an apple last night. I am staying away from my home-dried prunes, and apples. As long as you only eat the same amount as you would if were fresh, no problem. But, I love to eat them like candy...bad...bad...bad.

I would say, for a good read, interesting, and fact-filled, Audette's book is the best. There are others, too, but Ray Audette makes it the most interesting, and easiest to read. I wish his index was better, but all things consdered, Yes, I would say it's the best. He also has a very extensive bibliography, so you can check some of his sources.

I'm impressed! You actually know about the muscle response test!? That's great! You're the only other people in ten years who've known about it. It is one of the best-kept secrets of the meduical community (who obviously don't want us to know about it...they lose money when we do it ourselves).

Hi guys, I'm lurker here in the paleo section. My book order is on it's way hopefully soon.

But I'll have to delurk and ask, what is the "Muscle Response"?

TIA

Wa'il

Hi, tamarian!

Well, others read our posts! I thought that nobody on Atkins cared a wit for this WOE. The Muscle Response Test, or Applied Kinesiology is a simple way to test yourself and your friends and family for "allergic" reactions that your body is having to certain things. I've used it to test for food allergies, people allergies (people that the other person was having a bad reaction against even when they didn't think they were), certain types of clothing (fabrics and synthetic threads, etc.), even a negative reaction that one lady was having to a garnet she had hung around her neck for years (it was making her very weak)...using it, along with a simple method for rejuvenating a person's blocked energy fields has worked wonders with some of my clients and friends. I know, it sounds very New Age, but it really works! For example the woman with the garnet was having diffculty with her energy...she was always tired, and run-down. I asked her about the garnet around her neck. She said, "My garnet? Oh, I never take it off! I would feel naked if i took it off. I always wear it." I had her remove it. We removed all of our jewelry, and watches, etc. I had her raise her right arm and I clasped her wrist just behind the bone that sticks out on the side (I believe it's the ulna[?]) with my left hand. I had her think of the sky and close her eyes. I asked her to hold against my downward arm pressure when I said, "Hold." I said, "Hold." I waited for about a second to give her a chance to set the arm against my pressure. Then (because I knew that the garnet was the problem), I used my pinky finger against the pressure she tried to exert against me. Her arm dropped...She said, See!...I'm so weak." I did three passes...another long, drawn out description which I will be glad to explain if you're interested...and, Voila! She was so strong that I couldn't push her arm down with my arm (unless I really pushed hard!). She was amazed. We were not through yet. I had her think of the sky again. My wife took the garnet (unbeknownst to the lady) and put it in her auric field, right behind her back about five inches away from her body. I asked her to "Hold." You guessed it...it dropped like she had a lead weight on her arm. When she turned around to see her garnet so close she was blown away. I have even used it with my wife holding pictures of the offending foods, or people, or alcohol, or cigarettes, etc., behind the person's back. It works every time. Go figure. Our bodies are much more in tune than we realize. OOOWEEEEOOOO! Spooky, huh? Well, it just goes to show us that our bodies "Know" what they need. We just need to pay attention, more.

Thanks captxray,

So this works with allergies to objects/substances from the example you gave. Since you can experiment with the object in the proximity or awy to compare muscle reaction 9except for tiny airborne particles like pollen?). Does it work on food allergies as well?

Wa'il

captxray,
Thanks for the helpful info. I will get Audette's book. I can always index it and learn more while doing so.

I'm learning that the key to weight loss is just to up the low-carb vegetables and cut down on all/any other foods. That's what I've finally done each time I've plateaued and it has worked. I hope that when I plateau in the future I immediately realize what needs to be done, and do it!

tamarian,
Thank you for unlurking on this thread. I, for one, really hope this thread becomes very active. My husband and I need it to do so because we need healthy eating and weight loss now, for health's sake. We need all the inspiration and information we can get.

My husband is down to within a 2-5 pounds of the weight that he weighed up to the age 40. I still have more to go, but I hit 57% of desired weight loss this morning. Feel like I'm running downhill now. And I may be closer than 57%, because I'm not sure exactly what weight I should weigh. Somewhere between 125# and 110#. I'll know when the spare tire is gone.

Dandi

Dandi!!! I haven't tried your technique for breaking the plateau. I will try it , today. I just can't really seem to get going after I reached the fifty pound mark...my body has just kind of stayed in the tree pound range, up or down for weeks! I thought I had finally broken through, but now I'm not sure. Now, all you do is cut back on other stuff and raise the amounts of your leafy greens? I'm gonna try that and see what happens. I've started riding my bike to work and back...about a round trip of 16 miles. Thanks for the great idea! Wow! Congratulations on 57 pounds...that's a real accomplishment!

tamarian: Yes, it works for food allergies, really well. That's how I got started doing it. I would find that some of my psychotherapy clients had endogenous depressions for no apparent reason, or, in my case, hypoglycemic symptoms, or others had endogenous anxiety or anger. I even found someone with lupus, and onother with MS. I begin to ask them if we could test them for food allergies, and did it on myself, too. We found amazing results. What I found, over 20 years ago, was that almost everybody, and I mean almost everybody is "allergic" to wheat products, rice, and other grains...some way more than others. I found that when people eat the same foods all of the time, they build up "allergies" to these substances...doesn't matter what it is. We, as humans, are omnivores...that means that we need to eat a wide variety of foods...but no grains! We weren't designed for grains...or dairy. I find very few people who can tolerate dairy, or grains. Although, I must admit, I have found a few for either...they are just people with a strong constitution, I think. What I also found was that people with these autoimmune disorders, ie., obesity, MS, Lupus, Rheumatoid Arthritis, and a few frontal lobe disorders, like ADHD, Schizophrenia, Tourettes Disorder, Bi-Polar Disorder, Depression, Anxiety, and others are probably somewhat realted to food "allergies." Gotta go!

Interesting posts above.

Do people ever get allergic to meat or fish or to leafy greens? I do know that some people's systems do not handle meat well. Dr. Henry Bieler wrote, in Food is Your Best Medicine, that he didn't eat meat for that reason. And I have read so many times that some people get over-proteinized and have to cut back or cut out the meat until they get their systems in balance again. But is that an allergic reaction or not?

Yesterday I was reading on one of the paleo-eating sites and came across an article about allergies among people who are eating bugs (crickets, meal worms, etc.). Definitely some allergies showing up with some people when eating those items.

Oh, captxray, that was 57 per cent of weight loss on way to my projected goal, not 57 pounds. I wish it were 57 pounds, I'd be at my projected goal right now. But as it is, I have 24 pounds to go unless I decide I've reached normal weight before that projected goal.

Let me know if the increase in leafy greens works for you, to start the weight loss again. It certainly has for my DH and myself when we hit a plateau. I think we get to eating a little too much of the concentrated foods. They taste so good! And many times it is more convenient to grab some of them instead of taking time to make a salad. The weight loss is a good test. If we quit losing, then we can cut down on the concentrated foods and up on the low-carb veggies.

Dandi

Hi, Dandi...
I have had some people who showed an "allergic" reaction to meat...never to fish, or to leafy greens (hmmmmm, interesting...I never noticed or realized that before). What we found, upon further detective work, was the people were not having an allergic reaction to the meat, per-se, they were having an allergic reaction to the grains and chemicals that the meat had been fed just before killing and butchering...especially corn (bad enough for you by itself, but now with genetic splicing of corn [which is not usually fed to humans, but fed to our animals ([dogs, cats, ruminants], which causes many problems for humans because we are at the top of the food chain...ie., concentrated forms of various things like jelly fish genes, and poison ivy genes, etc. because it is more resistive to bugs, and fungus')). It also depends on what part of the animal you're eating. If you eat a lot of (YUK!) liver or some of the organ meats, you can get very high concetrations of certain vitamins (ie., oil soluable, like vitamin A). This will cause a possible toxic problem, at times. As far as crickets and mealworms, I'll bet they were fed cornmeal before they were consumed...just like snails for that French Delicacy. I'd be willing to bet that it wasn't the crickets or the mealworms they had the allergic reaction to, but the corn (that same old nemisis). One of the major problems in Meso-America is pelegra which is caused by eating unprocessed cornmeal and other corn products on such great quantities. Remember, we and the animals we eat, are what we eat. I have found, though, when all is still considered, there are still a few out there who have a negative reaction to meat...my second-oldest daughter, for example. She has a bad reaction to all red meat, even the "organically grown, non corn-stuffed" kind. She does great with leafy green veggies, nuts (for her Omega-3 fatty acids), fish and fowl. What makes it great is that we are all so similar, yet so different. Go figure. I have never personally known a strict vegan who was truly healthy. Most of the time they have one of the autoimmune disorders (which they will tell you, to their dying day, was not caused by the diet...mainly grains). I've heard the George Barnard Shaw was a strict vegan. He lived to be in his 90s. I'm sure there are some who do well on a diet that would kill the rest of us. How else would the species survive, if we suddenly went to a different diet?

As I said before, and will likely say again, I think a lot of problems with specific foods is because we've gotten ourselves off balance -- generally by eating too much of that food type. Then we have to go without it until we get the excess or results of the excess out of our systems. But then, in time, we may need to add that food (to some extent) back into our diets in order to stay balanced.

I think a lot of Americans today, including myself, have gotten ourselves off balance by eating too many sweets. And this is very likely associated with eating grains. They seem to set us up for wanting to eat sweets. And the result is the hypoglycemic reaction that so many of us are prone to today.

Yes, I think, too, that it is difficult to stay really healthy on a no-animal foods WOE. Most of the well-known writers who didn't eat meat or fish did eat eggs, cheese, yogurt or milk. Soy products are getting alot of bad press in certain circles these days, which is doubly interesting to me after they've been lauded to be the protein-answer for vegetarians.

It is interesting that you couldn't think of anyone who had an reaction to the leafy greens.

We feel very fortunate that the local natural foods store is carrying a lot of fresh produce and at very good prices. It is only about three blocks from our home. A perfect place for "gathering".
They carry chicken raised without hormones/antibiotics too, but too spendy for our budget. So we'll have to do our "fishing" and "hunting" at the regular stores.

I still haven't gotten the Audette book. Book stores were closed Monday, of course. Neither of the two stores I was at today carry it. Maybe tomorrow I'll see if either of the other book stores carry it. Otherwise, I'll order the book.

Dandi