No wonder why I don't look right in JLo jeans. I always have to look for the slim cuts even when I weigh more other cuts don't look right on me.

Angelina Jolie, has the perfect body even when she's pregnant. I swear that girl isn't real or she's got to be from another planet. She's due any day now & she still has gained any water weight. Is that possible. Sometimes I think she looks thinner then before she got pregnant.

I don't know why I got a push up bra I guess I thought it would make me look like I had boobs. Even though I didn't fool anyone. But it pushed my poor little ones almost up to my collar bone & felt like more of a torture device then a bra. I ended up wearing it a couple of times & tossing it aside. Plus the top had a big gap so I couldn't even wear a low cut shirt with it any ways. I guess it was just one of my crazy ideas. To try & cheat the body I was given.

Vgal, People used to ask me when I was getting married as if it was a crime. Then after I got married people were always asking when are we going to have kids. As I was commiting another crime by never having kids. Then they say once your in your 30's it's going to be hard to get pregnat such & such had to see a specialist you know. It used to really piss me off. I would get so mad & said maybe I can't have kids have you ever thought about that & it shut them up. And then after a while hated that to because then they felt sorry for me. But you know what the funny thing is I been on BC pills since I was 18 & I got off of them last Oct & couple months latter I found out I was pregnant at 36 yrs old. And everyone thought it was a miracle. But from what I learned is that don't worry about pleasing others. It you that you have to really worry about.

BTW I'd be proud of both the master's degree & the 60 pound loss. Their both took dedication & hard work. It was something that was just given to you with out any effort.

Sorry about that other girl. Yeah it does hurt. Think of it this way maybe one day he'll do the same to her too or she'll do it to him. One time I had this boyfriend who used to always accuse me me of cheating on him if he couldn't get ahold of me on the phone or if he seen me talking to another guy at school. I used to get so upset & then he dumps me for someone eles. I was so crushed, because I really liked him well they were having problems one day so he tells me he wants to get back with me. I turned him down & next thing you know he's going out with this other girl. I'm thinking damn this guy's really got some issues going on, good thing I didn't get back with him. Hope this helps.

LOOK at what you are buying into here! Your family and society isn't just handing you a load of crap...your reaching out and embracing that load of crap! You've taken someone elses idea of a 'good life' and made it your own. Your internal dialogue is one continuous put down after another on yourself. Another woman walks into a room and your heart sinks with defeat? Do you think he can't read that? Self confidence is very sexy, self hatred is not.
In one paragraph you bemoan the fashion industry and say, "What can we do to stop this" forcing one "ideal" of beauty....and in the next paragraph you say you torture yourself in a push up bra.
I have also got to wonder if you feel asexual and you are in your 30's, have you had your hormones tested? Don't under estimate the power of whacked out hormones.
I said it earlier, and I'll say it again.....if you do not love and respect yourself, other's will not. If you do not accept yourself, flaws and all (because we all have them) and if you do not believe that you are worthy of love, other's will not accept or love you.
It's not HIS loss and it's not YOUR loss....you are perfectly fine just as you stand today, and until YOU believe that, you will continue to be unhappy.

I'm ba-ack! I missed you all! Had to spend most of yesterday in bed with a pillow over my head. Migraine's will do that to you.

Ah, Vgal, hugs to you. I feel your pain. It can seem overwhelming sometimes when your self esteem is so low. Rocks is right, you have to learn not to take into account what anyone else thinks of you. You can't please everyone so the only person that you must learn to please is yourself. It sounds selfish but it isn't. If you keep trying to be this "ideal" person or figure, you will continue to fail and be unhappy. Not because you are flawed somehow but because your "ideal" is flawed. So you may not be the most beautiful woman in the world. Neither am I or most other folks in the world. But you are unique and THAT is what makes us all beautiful - cuz we're different! Beauty of the soul shines ever brighter than the ugliness of the most gorgeous babe's arrogance and meanness. I have no idea what you look like (and it doesn't matter) but I can see your wounded soul thru your words. It makes me sad to see someone who is beautiful and yet hates herself so much. I've been there and I understand. I wish that I could show you how much better life is when you love yourself. And, when you love yourself, people see that and respect you and love you to. And if they don't, you have the inner peace and strength to say, "I don't have time to waste on a shallow person like you." A husband isn't everything (take it from one who's been married and divorced 2ce now). Having kids isn't everything either. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to be married or having kids. Don't take in that spinster thing. That's so 100 years ago! You don't need a man to fulfill you! You don't need anything but yourself! I finally realized this myself. I've been fed all that crap for years too. I wasted too much time trying to make men love me by being everything they needed and failing miserably. And being depressed and hateful to myself. I refuse to put myself last anymore. If I can't love myself, I can't love anyone else either. It may feel like love but it isn't. It's obssession. Obssession fades and then you're left with nothing for all the work you put into it. And you hate yourself even more cuz you're not even a real person anymore. This self hatred is eating you alive, hon. Let it go! For your own sake! Show the world your inner beauty and don't let anyone discourage you - EVER!

Rocks, Great advice about the hormones I would have never thought about that. Physically I believe that I'm immature. I never had female problems like some of the other women that are my age except I did have a tumor once & had it removed. So I never think about hormonal stuff.

Yeah I do believe you have to love & respect yourself before others will too.

But it was me that tortured my self w/ the push up bra, it was some crazy idea I had after someone told me one of my tank tops made me look flat chested.

Vgal, I know that you do have inter beauty. I've read several of your post in the past. You have been a great encouragement to others including myself.

Josie, the fact that you obviously have no hips, I think you mentioned that you were straight up and down causes me to resent you intensely. For my body type I will always be a “boot cut” kind of gal. And those don’t always fit or help “cheat.” You gotta have back to pull off J.Lo jeans.

I would never want to be preggers if I couldn’t look like Angelina. I know that sounds ridiculous but the sole reason I won’t have kids is because I’m selfish and vain and looking like a hot and sweaty cow (which undoubtedly I would resemble) is not my idea of attractive. That aside, I couldn’t imagine being responsible for another human being’s life. I mean, kids are forever. And you have to help them become sane, reasonably respectable adults. I couldn’t handle it. I’d end up being a parent just like my own, and that’s unfair to inflict upon an innocent soul.

In this day and age to be single over a “certain age” is considered a crime. Particularly when that certain someone isn’t dating and hasn’t dated or had a serious relationship, then you’re even more freak show-ish. As much as my family jokes about me not being married with children and the eternal, when will it happen question comes up, they don’t realistically expect to do either ever or at the very least anytime soon. Then again, neither do I. The reason we do big productions over my graduations/degrees is because it’s the only time I ever get to send out invites to celebrate something I’ve done and have a big party/reception. It makes my mother happy.

Josie, you got the push up bra specifically because you wanted the appearance of boobs. Generally, they don’t fool anyone unless you already have some boobs to put in the bra and therefore make it look a little more realistic. The padding is what usually freaks me out, because I never wanted anyone to hug me or squeeze me because I suspected they could feel the huge cotton wads stuck on my chest and in essence defeats the purpose. I think an even worse situation was wearing a padded push up bra with my falsies and worrying that if I shifted they’d move or fall out, etc. Although I must admit that in the right bra with the right blouse, they did look spectacular. I had this great blouse I got at a total clearance price at Ann Taylor outlet that was a pseudo corset top which I wore on NYE 04 and I had boobs for the first time. It was awesome. I kept thinking, so this is what it’s like to be womanly.

So sorry, PK that you had to sit out yesterday due to migraines. I think headaches are bad, I can’t even imagine what yours must be like. 

I don’t think my “ideal” is flawed so much as it reflects the generation I was born in. And no one is really telling me I have to achieve this ideal more so than myself. I want it for ME. I want to be the picture I see in my head for ME. I think maybe somewhere in the back of my mind, I do consider the possibility that I will reach this goal and then no one will be there to appreciate it and maybe its this FLAWED thinking that is keeping me plateaued. I don’t know. I guess I’ve been of the mindset, “You can’t be attractive unless someone is around to appreciate it.” The whole tree in the forest logic. I know, I know. Stop rolling your eyes now, you’ll get another migraine.

I read an interesting quote from that book “Tales from the Scale”, a man once told the author that if you’re skinny and beautiful you can get away with a horrible personality (ie; Paris Hilton or pretty much any supermodel). Although I don’t necessarily agree with the sentiment, I do understand its truth. Society today values beauty over everything else. I’m not saying its right, but I get it.

In regards to Rocks comments:
1) Yes, I’ve embraced the “load of crap”. What other choice do I have? Let’s face it, women are still a commodity, bought and sold and traded. I don’t like it, but I have little choice unless I want to remain single and alone for the remainder of my years. You either play by the rules or get out of the game, it’s that simple. In order to be “competitive” you have to submit to the torture devices. Let’s face it, given the choice would I prefer to be a plain Jane with no makeup, no style, a hairy body and weighing 300 lbs? Yes. That would save me loads of time and money on ridiculousness such as makeup, clothes, hair care products (of which my budget could feed a 3rd world nation – I have A LOT of hair), haircuts, waxing, electrolysis, manicures and pedicures, facials, peels and microdermabrasion (which by the way, has done wonders for my skin!), gym memberships, trainers, etc. Yeah, would I rather stay home and eat chili cheese fries and ice cream and watch endless reruns of the X-Files and Law & Order (all 27 versions)? YES! But do I want to stay living at home with my mother forever? No. Is it possible that a man could find me attractive if I looked like a hairy behemoth? Yes, but then again even hairy behemoth need love I suppose.
2) As for my musician boy, he wasn’t present when his Skeletor resembling GF walked in the bar. So he couldn’t see my reaction to her being there. He was already preparing to go onstage. But in all honesty it doesn’t really matter if he had. Whether I’m confident or not (or appear to be) makes no difference to him when all his focus is on her anyway. I could have been the most confident woman in that room (or at least appeared to be) and it wouldn’t have changed his mind. Nor, would it have affected anyone else. I never understood how people will say “confidence is sexy”. In my mind, I always imagine the person wearing an outfit they have no business in wearing thinking they look good when in reality they look incredibly stupid. Granted, men aren’t going to approach a woman who doesn’t look like she wants to be bothered (most of the time, sometimes they can’t take a hint), but he is also not going to approach a woman he finds grossly unattractive no matter how “confident” she appears to be. Given the choice, men are still going to choose physical traits over everything else, hands down. Men don’t need to be stimulated as much as women do which is why they can tolerate a vapid woman if she’s hot, but women won’t in reverse.
3) When I say what can we do to stop the fashion industry, I’m being hypothetical. It’s a rhetorical question because there isn’t anything we can do to stop the fashion industry. It’s not like global warming where we have a choice or a ways and means to act upon. We all know it’s not going to stop. We don’t really want it to either. We enjoy looking and dreaming of photos of celebrities, it gives us something to occupy our time and fantasise about and not have to dwell on the mundaneness of life. Let’s face it, no one wants to look at “fat people” in fashion magazines. Cruel sad fact of life. We’ve all heard it, so let’s not pretend and try to be PC about it. I’ll say it, I don’t want to look at pictures of people like ME in magazines. If that were the case, I’d stare at a mirror or pictures of me all day and be satiated. I want to look at the “beautiful people”; the dream, the fantasy. Magazines are like books or movies or television – an escape from reality.
4) The reason I’m asexual is not because of my hormones, although for 7 years I was on the Depo shot and when I came off we discovered I had like less than zero estrogen (we’ve since corrected it), the reason is because I don’t look sexual. I’m far too childlike to be considered sexual. My logic has always been, I don’t look like a woman therefore I can’t be sexual because let’s face it, pedophilia while being a fetish to a select group of individuals out there, is creepy and offensive to pretty much everyone else. And when purchasing your bras at the Gap Kids store, well that just about says it all.
5) I think your last statement about not being happy until I can accept myself is true. Perhaps you are correct since I’m NOT perfectly fine as I stand today, what that means is I need to continue working towards my goals before I can feel comfortable enough to share these parts of myself with anyone. As much as I’d like to be in a relationship, I understand that I’m not ready for it and don’t really want it. YET. Until I’m at the stage where I can allow someone in, I can’t ask for something I’m not ready to receive.

Damn, PK I wish the self hate was eating me alive – I’d be 20 lbs. lighter already!!

I'm good at supporting others and I enjoy doing it (it makes me feel useful), just not necessarily good at it for myself. It makes me a good editor and assistant, but not a good individual. And the problem with inner beauty is no one can SEE it!

Vgal, it's like what we mentioned awhile back we are never happy with what we have. I've always been jealous of the curvy girls. When my neices started devolping I was like oh brother here they are not even a teenager yet but their more womanly shaped then I am & I'm old enough to be their mom. And it wasn't 1 neice but all 3 of them. And when your straight figured you definetly don't want to gain weight it shows up fast exspecially when your 5 ft w/ short torsal it's got nowhere to go but out & it always choses the belly to rear it's ugly head. I've just recently developed hips & I wouldn't have if I didn't get pregnant. I'm hoping that they stay but go down a little.

I know the push bra didn't fool anyone, I think it brought more laughter then anything eles. And taught me how to deal with pain.

Yeah you can't see inner beauty but you can feel it. Noone wants to be around someone who constantly rips them apart. They like being around those who make them feel excepted & good about themself & like they really care about them. I think that would make good individual. You seem like your that way.

Maybe you have allowed yourself to be "bought and sold and traded" but I never have and never will. I am not for sale or barter at any price. I would never allow any man to treat me as if I was an accessory in his life, like a piece of jewelry on his arm. I have selected the men in my life, they have not selected me. If a man requires all of your aforementioned 'torture' devices to think that I am beautiful, that man is NOT for me. You see, I sincerely value my intelligence, sense of humor, and sunny disposition above any physical attributes that I might (or might not) have. I actually believe that you have an incredibly low opinion of MEN. They really do run deeper than that, you know?

Thanks, Josie. I try to be a positive influence on the people around me, even if I'm not positive TOWARDS me. Maybe its because I was/am so constantly criticised that I don't want others to suffer the same. I can't deal with my own bad moods, but I can't handle others, so I want to make them feel better and not get discouraged, etc. I'm optimistic in a way about other people's lives that I'm never quite on point in mine. It's always like I was far greater at matchmaking and helping my friends with their love lives than I ever took an interest in my own.

I have a cousin who is 9 years younger than I am and she (before getting preggers with 2 children - she's due in July with #2) had a really great body. When she lost all her high school baby fat, she was a size 0-2 with large boobs and really nice lean legs. I was always jealous that at her age she was way more womanly looking than I'd ever be and I was older! I have friends with kids younger than I am who wear bra sizes I could never even aspire to fit into without ALOT of stuffing.

I'm still not eating this week. Coffee again for breakfast. Yesterday I had coffee and then a small dinner - but at least I drank a protein shake. My trainer is going to kill me. I went out last nite and hoped to see my musician boy, why you ask? I don't know. I went to see a mutual friend of ours play a gig, great set. Was I disappointed that he didn't show? Yes. But what could I have really expected? Would I have wanted him to see me, be dazzled by my beauty and suddenly leave his GF? Talk about bad karma! Why do I do this to myself????!? I'm sinking fast.

I do have a rather low opinion of men in general but its only from past experiences. I try not to hold on to the stereotypes, but its tough especially since I live in LA and men here all seem to basically want the same "type" of woman on their arm. They want the "trophy wife", the "arm candy". I think in other cities women have a much better situation, but in LA beauty rules. Beauty is POWER. It is one of the only areas where we can be in control. And yet, strangely we are not when you think about it. Again, I'm not saying I like this and it both angers and frustrates me being raised in the post-Friedan era, but for someone like me who is over a certain age, with a higher than most IQ level, who is not the most attractive and sort of chubby gal - if I don't submit to the "torture" devices then I might as well join the monestary now. When you're not at the top of the food chain, you don't have the luxury of options, the freedom of choice. It's sort of like being the uncoordinated kid in gym class, you don't get to choose your team, if you're lucky - they choose YOU.

But Vgal, the point is, the best men do not choose women by appearances alone. Is that how you choose men? Just by how they look? Being fun, or witty has nothing to do with it?

I wish there was some way to convince you to stop obsessing about appearances. It makes me think that if we were all to meet face to face that very few of us could live up to your expectations of physical beauty. And that you would value us less because of that. Because you seem to think that physical beauty is what is important.

Hmm, good question? How would I pick men? Looks play a BIG part, I'll admit that but not the only part. Talent, intelligence, sensitivity, humour, the ability to tolerate me also play a big part. Some of the men that I find most attractive are not traditionally handsome. But yes, the physical is a concern.

I'm only obsessed with how I look, not what my friends look like. I have some gorgeous GFs, but I also have not so spectacularly looking friends. I love them all the same. I like my friends for VERY different reasons than I would in potential BFs. I value MYSELF less for my flaws but I don't judge anyone else by those standards. There but for the grace of god go I.

I must be really dense... you want to look "good enough" to attract the kind of man who values looks above all else and wouldn't look at you unless you change yourself physically? That doesn't sound like it would be much of a "win", especially if you give him all the power, hoping to be "chosen" for the privelege of being his arm candy, and probably discarded when anything starts to wrinkle or sag that can't be fixed surgically.

No wonder you're getting so down... even if you win the contest, it's kind of a booby prize... in both senses of the word.

I am happy to know you wouldn't judge me by my looks. Because they aren't perfect. I personally don't know anyone who is perfect looking. But you think the rest of the world judges you for your looks because...

I still don't get it. Has Potatofree got it right? You are competing for the privilege of being some man's arm candy?

Just for the record, I think Paris Hilton's attitude makes her ugly as Hell. (I had to pop back in and say that... it galls me when people call her beautiful when her eyes are as empty and beady as a snake)

Oh my god, reading this on Sunday morning is like a cold splash of water! Yes, I think this is it. Insight. I want a man who values looks as being important, but not as the MOST important attribute but he's also a man who has the freedom to choose. Does this make any sense? The question is, if I want a man who could choose any woman in LA, why would he choose me then instead? I have nothing to offer him - nothing of importance in LA's superficial standards based system. He'd be a laughingstock.

Here's another sick distorted thought, I wouldn't mind being considered someone's "arm candy". There are alot of worse fates than being a "trophy wife" in my opinion. I've always been the girl whom people refer to as "smart", what fun it would be to be listed first as "beautiful" instead.

Potato, here's some insight into the "gold-digger's" heart - be warned it's very DARK and for the record, I don't agree with it. For most women who aspire to be a trophy wife, the fact that she'll be subjugated is irrelevant, she will be able to obtain plenty of material goods and assets to make up for the fact that she's to be seen and not heard. In fact, she'd prefer it that way so her vacuous little head doesn't have to work hard to form thought or opinions, unless its about fashion or other meaningless trivialities. In the tragic event she begins to age or sag, there are neverending, countless, innovative procedures to counter that eventuality. And should her shallow, callow husband decide to trade her in for the newer, younger model - by then she's 1) acquired enough wealth to do fine by her own, 2) hired a brilliant divorce attorney to engage her ex in a spectacular battle, or 3) developed an air about her that will lure her next (and ideally bigger) catch. For some men, the trophy wife is something to be bought and sold and traded. The former Mrs. So and So is considered quite the cache. Candance Bushnell's novel Trading Up describes that phenomenon.

Paris Hilton is a piece of trash. I'm sure by now, most of you have seen the footage of her Brandon Davis talking smack about Lindsey Lohan. The most downright evil thing I've ever seen, Paris laughing at Davis calling Lohan "Poor. It's disgusting." because she's only worth 7 million. Trust me, I've seen Paris Hilton walking down the street in LA, she's 25 going on 80 in terms of "hagsville". Her body resembles a praying mantis.