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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Sep-15-05, 10:35
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
Finding the Pieces
Posts: 16,988
 
Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/320.0/160 Female 67
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Location: Maryland, US
Default The Great Vitamin D Experiment; Ongoing

Well it’s that time of year again!!! I’d like to invite you all to join me in another Vitamin D (D3) experiment. I’ve been doing a lot of research of the benefits of vitamin D supplementation and have been taking it now since August 04 and have great results (I have severe SAD). I'm not taking any other meds for SAD though I was before. We did the experiment 2004-2005 also and members had positive results. You can read about it here and didn't feel this good. I’m curious if others would have positive results also. Therefore I’m inviting you to join me in the great vitamin D experiment and report on your results here.

The Experiment

You stay on whatever plan you're currently on.
Take in in 1 dose or 2-3 divided doses/day any time until 4 pm. Taking vitamin D past 4 pm (or whatever your equivalent day’s schedule is) can result in sleeplessness.

The range of supplementation is based upon severity of underlying symptoms and/or vitamin D test results. The starting dose is 4,000-10,000 IU/day. Increase the dose gradually, as needed, up to 50,000 IU depending on the progress of deficiency symptoms subsiding.

Once symptoms have subsided/disappeared, stay on that highest dose for thee months to correct all past deficiencies.

Once the three month high dose period is past you can reduce your vitamin D dose gradually to find your maintenance dose. This maintenance dose of vitamin D will change seasonally.

Any time any deficiency symptoms reappear, dry skin is a common signal, you need to up your vitamin D until symptoms disappear again.

Vitamin D should be supplemented more during winter and less during summer. You need to supplement during summer as well as winter unless you live in the deep south or the tropics and spend a lot of time under the midday sun.


The optimum dose of vitamin D varies greatly with the individual (sex, age, weight, skin color, ethnicity, ancestry, duration of deficiency, number and severity of deficiency diseases, culture, season, and resident location of residence). Vitamin D levels should be gradually increased over a couple of weeks from a lower to a higher target dose.

Take with vitamin D
GTF Chromium 400-600 mcg
http://www.anma.com/mon81.html#ARTICLE2

Calcium 1500 – 2000 mg
(It's recommended that calcium carbonate be taken with food and that calcium citrate be taken without food and at least 1 hour before food for best absorbtion rates)

Magnesium ½ calcium dose up to equal calcium dose
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...9&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ctds.info/5_13_magnesium.html
http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn..._29_98/food.htm

Vitamin A only from fish liver
20,000-60,000 IU
http://www.hpakids.org/holistic-hea...About-Vitamin-D
http://intl.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/49/2/358
http://www.greenpasture.org/content/VitaminA.pdf
http://www.naturalrearing.com/J_In_...sSynthetic.html

Signs your body hasn’t yet adjusted to the amount are edginess, irritability, and increased hunger/nibbles.

Signs you're getting enough are better, deeper sleep but alertness upon awakening, dry skin spots and rough patches smooth out, cracked skin heals, better energy, clearer mind, better moods, bone and muscle pain disappears, more strength, less tiredness, better health or health issues no colds/flu.

Some info on vitamin D dose/needs:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/77/1/204
http://www.bioticsresearch.com/PDF/...4%20Vasquez.pdf
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/cont...ll/326/7387/469
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/cont...ll/326/7387/469
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/80/6/1752S
http://www.nutritionj.com/content/3/1/8

Vitamin D safety:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/73/2/288
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues...ia10054_fm.html
http://www.cholecalciferol-council.com/toxicity.pdf
http://www.bioticsresearch.com/PDF/...4%20Vasquez.pdf

Take whatever supplements you regularly take in addition to the above. Levels of the above vitamins are in addition to whatever is in the multi you are taking. Only adjust if you take any of the above vitamins separately.

Vitamin D, without fillers--Some people react to filers used.
Suppliers


US
Drops
2,000 IU, Dcnutrition.com
2,000 IU, www.bayho.com

Gels
1,000 IU, Carlson brand
1,000 IU, NOW brand
2,000 IU, Carlson brand

Capsules
5,000 IU, bio-tech-pharm.com
50,000 IU, bio-tech-pharm.com

Recommendations
Ingest at least 90 ounces of water/day.
Use only the following fat sources where possible: butter, tallow, coconut, olive, canola, peanut, omega 3s, flax, and fish oils.

CAUTIONS
--Do not join the experiment if you have damaged liver or kidneys without your doctor’s permission/supervision.
--Do join the experiment if you have one or more of the symptoms of vitamin D deficiency. These are obesity, SAD, depression, anxiety, obsessive behaviors, epilepsy, PCOS, infertility, fibromyalgia, CFS, chronic pain, arthritis, musculoskeletal pain, osteoporosis, lack of balance/muscle strength, autoimmune diseases, intestinal diseases, Crohns, heart disease, impaired thyroid, hyperparathyroid, high blood pressure, high blood calcium levels, rheumatoid arthritis, psoriasis, chronic dry skin, tuberculosis, inflammatory bowel disease, diabetes, or any cancer.

--If you can afford to get tested before starting the experiment, please do so. The correct test to order is 25(OH)D, also called 25-hydroxyvitamin D. Make sure this is the test you get. Labs often give the test for 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D, the active hormone. This test is the wrong test as it offers no meaningful data regarding D status. Optimal values of 25(OH)D are above 70 ng/ml.
--Only natural vitamin D (D3) should be used. Natural vitamin D has been found to be non toxic at levels of 50k/day. Manmade vitamin D (D2) has been found toxic at 20,000 IU/day. Natural vitamin D (D3) is better utilized by the body. Vitamin D (D3) comes in both a gel cap with fish oil and a dry form. Some people find the dry form is better tolerated.
--Cod liver oil, up to 8 tablespoons/day, can be used for part of your vitamin D requirement.

Reactions you Might Have
--For those with pain due to injury, pain can recur at the previously injured site as corrective healing occurs due to supplementation.
--More energy
--Less Depression
--Less Anxiety
--More even disposition
--Easier and more regular bowel movements
--Fewer digestive problems
--Less Pain
--Weight Loss
--Less Edema and swelling
--Clearer skin
--Regular menses
--Fewer PMS symptoms

Please keep track of symptoms/improvements in your journal and here as time passes. I am really interested in what the range of reactions might be.

Here's some more information on D:

Here's some information on D:
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20041009/bob8.asp

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/fc...us/vitamind.pdf

http://www.bioticsresearch.com/PDF/...4%20Vasquez.pdf

http://www1.umn.edu/umnnews/Feature...deficiency.html

http://www.psu.edu/ur/2000/vitamind.html

http://www.icmedicine.co.uk/journal/oct03/002.htm

http://www.spinegroup.com/Back%20Is...tD&porosis.html

http://web.mit.edu/london/www/magnesium.html

http://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/.../ea0011p107.htm

http://www.immunesupport.com/librar...D%20deficiency/

Last edited by Zuleikaa : Fri, Apr-06-07 at 10:28. Reason: Updating
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Sep-15-05, 12:49
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
Finding the Pieces
Posts: 16,988
 
Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/320.0/160 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 22%
Location: Maryland, US
Default

I'm taking 7,000 IU of D. I expect to reduce this a little and then maintain at that level until November when it will go back up.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Sep-16-05, 22:53
quikdeb's Avatar
quikdeb quikdeb is offline
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Posts: 4,566
 
Plan: Weight Watchers
Stats: 264/136/146 Female 64inches
BF:
Progress: 108%
Location: Central CA
Default

I'm currently taking 3600 of D and plan to gradually increase over time. I'm trying to find relief from chronic pain that I suspect is probably related to fibromyalgia. I've had a bit of a bout with it for the past 3 weeks and since upping my D dosage this week, the pain is easing away.

I have gained a couple of pounds, but am working on finding a good calcium level for the D to work correctly with my body. Zule is helping me not to obsess too much over the scale issue. I am very much a number person and this is kind of throwing me, but I think given time...it will all straighten itself out.

I took D last year in the winter/spring, but not nearly as much as I'm taking now. I did not take any during the summer.

Deb
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  #4   ^
Old Sat, Sep-17-05, 09:26
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
Finding the Pieces
Posts: 16,988
 
Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/320.0/160 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 22%
Location: Maryland, US
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More studies. What can I say, I'm a reader and Vitamin D is my hammer, lol!!!

Low-Dose Vitamin D Prevents Muscular Atrophy and Reduces Falls and Hip Fractures in Women after Stroke: A Randomized Controlled Trial - Cerebrovasc Dis. 2005 Jul 27;20(3):187-192 - "48 patients received 1,000 IU ergocalciferol daily ... Vitamin D treatment accounted for a 59% reduction in falls ... There were increases in the relative number and size of type II muscle fibers and improved muscle strength in the vitamin D-treated group"
Vitamin d for health and in chronic kidney disease - Semin Dial. 2005 Jul-Aug;18(4):266-75 - "In addition to its role in maintaining calcium and phosphorus homeostasis, vitamin D is now being recognized as important for maintaining maximum muscle strength and for the prevention of many chronic diseases, including type I diabetes, multiple sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis, hypertension, cardiovascular heart disease, and many common cancers"

Vitamin D and calcium supplementation prevents severe falls in elderly community-dwelling women: a pragmatic population-based 3-year intervention study - Aging Clin Exp Res. 2005 Apr;17(2):125-32 - "female residents who followed the Calcium and Vitamin D Program had a 12% risk reduction in severe falls"

Fracture prevention with vitamin D supplementation: a meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials - JAMA. 2005 May 11;293(18):2257-64 - "Oral vitamin D supplementation between 700 to 800 IU/d appears to reduce the risk of hip and any nonvertebral fractures in ambulatory or institutionalized elderly persons. An oral vitamin D dose of 400 IU/d is not sufficient for fracture prevention"

Osteoporosis: the role of micronutrients - Am J Clin Nutr. 2005 May;81(5):1232S-9S - "Higher doses than the current US recommendation (600 IU) of vitamin D in the elderly (age >/= 65 y) may actually be required for optimal bone health (800-1000 IU/d)"

Vitamin D and calcium deficits predispose for multiple chronic diseases - Eur J Clin Invest. 2005 May;35(5):290-304 - "calcium and vitamin D deficits increase the risk of malignancies, particularly of colon, breast and prostate gland, of chronic inflammatory and autoimmune diseases (e.g. insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus, inflammatory bowel disease, multiple sclerosis), as well as of metabolic disorders (metabolic syndrome, hypertension)"

Failure of High-Dose Ergocalciferol to Correct Vitamin D Deficiency in Adults with Cystic Fibrosis - Am J Respir Crit Care Med. 2005 Apr 28 - "In the 33 CF adults who also completed the recommended second course of 800,000 IU of ergocalciferol over two months, none demonstrated correction of their deficiency" - I threw this in because ergocalciferol is vitamin D(2), with is not absorbed as well as vitamin D(3) (cholecalciferol). If your taking supplements containing the D(2), you might want to change.

Pilot Study: Potential Role of Vitamin D (Cholecalciferol) in Patients With PSA Relapse After Definitive Therapy - Nutr Cancer. 2005;51(1):32-6 - "Fifteen patients were given 2,000 IU (50 mug) of cholecalciferol daily and monitored prospectively every 2-3 mo. In 9 patients, PSA levels decreased or remained unchanged after the commencement of cholecalciferol. This was sustained for as long as 21 mo. Also, there was a statistically significant decrease in the rate of PSA rise after administration of cholecalciferol (P = 0.005) compared with that before cholecalciferol. The median PSA doubling time increased from 14.3 mo prior to commencing cholecalciferol to 25 mo after commencing cholecalciferol. Fourteen of 15 patients had a prolongation of PSA doubling time after commencing cholecalciferol. There were no side effects reported by any patient"

Why we should offer routine vitamin D supplementation in pregnancy and childhood to prevent multiple sclerosis - Med Hypotheses. 2005;64(3):608-18 - "Prevention of MS by modifying an important environmental factor (sunlight exposure and vitamin D level) offers a practical and cost-effective way to reduce the burden of the disease in the future generations"
Circulating 25-hydroxyvitamin d levels indicative of vitamin d sufficiency: implications for establishing a new effective dietary intake recommendation for vitamin d - J Nutr. 2005 Feb;135(2):317-22 - "The current adult recommendations for vitamin D, 200-600 IU/d, are very inadequate when one considers that a 10-15 min whole-body exposure to peak summer sun will generate and release up to 20,000 IU vitamin D-3 into the circulation ... Recent studies reveal that current dietary recommendations for adults are not sufficient to maintain circulating 25(OH)D levels at or above this level, especially in pregnancy and lactation"

The effects of postmenopausal Vitamin D treatment on vaginal atrophy - Maturitas. 2004 Dec 10;49(4):334-7 - "The mean physical findings score in Vitamin D treatment (VDT) group was significantly lower than the mean physical findings score in the group without treatment ... As maturation indices: in VDT group, superficial cells proportion was significantly higher and basal, parabasal cells proportion was lower than in the group without treatment"

Sunlight and vitamin D for bone health and prevention of autoimmune diseases, cancers, and cardiovascular disease - Am J Clin Nutr. 2004 Dec;80(6):1678S-88S - "Vitamin D deficiency is an unrecognized epidemic among both children and adults in the United States. Vitamin D deficiency not only causes rickets among children but also precipitates and exacerbates osteoporosis among adults and causes the painful bone disease osteomalacia. Vitamin D deficiency has been associated with increased risks of deadly cancers, cardiovascular disease, multiple sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis, and type 1 diabetes mellitus"

Functional indices of vitamin D status and ramifications of vitamin D deficiency - Am J Clin Nutr. 2004 Dec;80(6):1706S-9S - "For typical older individuals, supplemental oral intakes of approximately 1300 IU/d are required to reach the lower end of the optimal range"

Vitamin D requirements: current and future - Am J Clin Nutr. 2004 Dec;80(6):1735S-9S - "Upper levels of vitamin D intake were set at 50 mug/d (2000 IU/d) for all ages. Some individuals would require higher levels than these to achieve serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentrations for optimal calcium absorption. So much new information on vitamin D and health has been collected since the requirements were set in 1997 that this nutrient is likely the most in need of revised requirements"

Vitamin D2 is much less effective than vitamin D3 in humans - J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Nov;89(11):5387-91 - "Vitamin D(2) potency is less than one third that of vitamin D(3). Physicians resorting to use of vitamin D(2) should be aware of its markedly lower potency and shorter duration of action relative to vitamin D(3)"

Vitamin D insufficiency and fracture risk - Endocrinology & Diabetes. 11(6):353-358, December 2004 - "There is a growing body of evidence for the alarming prevalence of vitamin D insufficiency and deficiency among healthy adolescents, adults, and elders"

Vitamin D in Australia. Issues and recommendations - Aust Fam Physician. 2004 Mar;33(3):133-8 - "In cases of established vitamin D deficiency, supplementation with 3000-5000 IU per day for at least 1 month is required to replete body stores"

Vitamin D Insufficiency and Deficiency in Chronic Kidney Disease. A Single Center Observational Study - Am J Nephrol. 2004 Sep 22;24(5):503-510 - "In the group undergoing maintenance hemodialyis, we found that 97% of the patients had vitamin D levels in the suboptimal range ... vitamin D insufficiency and deficiency are highly prevalent in patients with CKD and may play a role in the development of hyperparathyroidism"

Randomized comparison of the effects of the vitamin D3 adequate intake versus 100 mcg (4000 IU) per day on biochemical responses and the wellbeing of patients - Nutr J. 2004 Jul 19;3(1):8 - "winter wellbeing/depression scores improved with both doses of vitamin D"

Supplementation with oral vitamin d3 and calcium during winter prevents seasonal bone loss: a randomized controlled open-label prospective trial - J Bone Miner Res. 2004 Aug;19(8):1221-30 - "Supplementation with oral vitamin D(3) and calcium during winter prevents seasonal changes in bone turnover and bone loss in healthy adults. It seems conceivable that annually recurring cycles of low vitamin D and mild secondary hyperparathyroidism during the winter months contributes, at least in part and over many years, to age-related bone loss. Supplementation with low-dose oral vitamin D(3) and calcium during winter may be an efficient and inexpensive strategy for the primary prevention of bone loss in northern latitudes"

Association between serum concentrations of 25-hydroxyvitamin D3 and periodontal disease in the US population - Am J Clin Nutr. 2004 Jul;80(1):108-13 - "Low serum 25(OH)D(3) concentrations may be associated with PD independently of BMD. Given the high prevalence of PD and vitamin D deficiency, these findings may have important public health implications"
Prevalence of vitamin d deficiency among healthy adolescents - Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 2004 Jun;158(6):531-7 - "Seventy-four patients (24.1%) were vitamin D deficient"

Why the optimal requirement for Vitamin D(3) is probably much higher than what is officially recommended for adults - J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2004 May;89-90:575-9 - "If 70nmol/L is regarded as a minimum desirable target 25(OH)D concentration, then current recommendations of 15mcg per day do not meet the criterion of an RDA"

Vitamin D deficiency: new perspectives on an old disease - Endocrinology and Diabetes, 2/04 - "Even though vitamin D deficiency has been thought to be obsolete in developed countries such as the United States, recent data suggest that this diagnosis may exist in epidemic proportions. Chronic vitamin D deficiency may be associated with a susceptibility to hypertension, multiple sclerosis, and various malignancies, problems beyond the more commonly recognized skeletal manifestations"

Vitamin D: importance in the prevention of cancers, type 1 diabetes, heart disease, and osteoporosis - Am J Clin Nutr. 2004 Mar;79(3):362-71 - "Vitamin D deficiency is often misdiagnosed as fibromyalgia ... Studies in both human and animal models add strength to the hypothesis that the unrecognized epidemic of vitamin D deficiency worldwide is a contributing factor of many chronic debilitating diseases ... The recommended adequate intakes for vitamin D are inadequate, and, in the absence of exposure to sunlight, a minimum of 1000 IU vitamin D/d is required to maintain a healthy concentration of 25(OH)D in the blood" - See iHerb or Vitacost vitamin D products. Vitamin D can be toxic in high doses.

Vitamin D and prostate cancer prevention and treatment - Trends Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Nov;14(9):423-30 - "The association between either decreased sun exposure or vitamin D deficiency and the increased risk of prostate cancer at an earlier age, and with a more aggressive progression, indicates that adequate vitamin D nutrition should be a priority for men of all ages"
Prevalence of hypovitaminosis D in elderly women in Italy: clinical consequences and risk factors - Osteoporos Int. 2003 Jul 11 - "Vitamin D deficiency is extremely common among elderly Italian women ...

Hypovitaminosis D is associated with worsening of the ability to perform activities of daily living and higher hip fracture prevalence. This finding should lead to an urgent population-based strategy to remedy this condition"

Vitamin D Deficiency Masquerading as Pseudohypoparathyroidism Type 2 - Journal of The Association of Physicians of India, 6/03 - "Phenytoin and phenobarbitone are well known to cause vitamin D deficiency by decreasing intestinal absorption and increasing metabolism of 25 (OH) D in liver ... vitamin D deficiency can mimic PHP-II and therefore before considering this rare diagnosis vitamin D deficiency must be excluded"

Oral vitamin D3 decreases fracture risk in the elderly - J Fam Pract. 2003 Jun;52(6):431-5 - "Despite a seemingly large dose averaging 800 IU per day, this regimen is a safe, cheap (<$2 per year), and effective therapy for primary prevention of fractures"

Vitamin D in preventive medicine: are we ignoring the evidence? - Br J Nutr 2003 May;89(5):552-572 - "European children and young adults often have circulating 25(OH)D levels in the insufficiency range during wintertime. Elderly subjects have mean 25(OH)D levels in the insufficiency range throughout the year. In institutionalized subjects 25(OH)D levels are often in the deficiency range. There is now general agreement that a low vitamin D status is involved in the pathogenesis of osteoporosis. Moreover, vitamin D insufficiency can lead to a disturbed muscle function. Epidemiological data also indicate a low vitamin D status in tuberculosis, rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, inflammatory bowel diseases, hypertension, and specific types of cancer. Some intervention trials have demonstrated that supplementation with vitamin D or its metabolites is able: (i) to reduce blood pressure in hypertensive patients; (ii) to improve blood glucose levels in diabetics; (iii) to improve symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis and multiple sclerosis. The oral dose necessary to achieve adequate serum 25(OH)D levels is probably much higher than the current recommendations of 5-15 &mgr;g/d."

Calcium, vitamin D, milk consumption, and hip fractures: a prospective study among postmenopausal women - Am. J. of Clin. Nutr., 2/03 - "Women consuming 12.5 µg vitamin D/d from food plus supplements had a 37% lower risk of hip fracture (RR = 0.63; 95% CI: 0.42, 0.94) than did women consuming < 3.5 µg/d. Total calcium intake was not associated with hip fracture risk (RR = 0.96; 95% CI: 0.68, 1.34 for 1200 compared with < 600 mg/d). Milk consumption was also not associated with a lower risk of hip fracture (P for trend = 0.21)"

Last edited by Zuleikaa : Sat, Sep-17-05 at 09:32.
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Sep-17-05, 10:13
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
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Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
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I've become a great believer in vitamin D in the last few years. I think it is best to let the body make its own through getting enough sunlight. Unfortunately, during the winter months there is not enough sunlight to start the chemical reaction.

What I have not been able to find out is what level of sunlight is too little to generate the vitamin D. I know summer is good and winter is bad, but I don't know where spring and autumn fit into the scheme of things.

I don't know when in the year to start taking vitamin D supplements and when I can stop taking them. Has anyone been able to find any data that shows what the cutoff point is for sunlight and vitamin D production?
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, Sep-17-05, 10:30
Gailew Gailew is offline
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Plan: gluten free lc
Stats: 200/130/160 Female 5'6"
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Progress: 175%
Location: PNW
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Zuleikaa,
I have SAD and CFIDS, and so I've read your posts with interest. A couple of months ago I started taking 1 TBS. of cod liver oil in my smoothies every morning, and just recently added 1 TBS. of flaxseed oil to that. I've quit putting on sunblock unless I'm going to be outside for more than twenty minutes. I've ordered a coral calcium product with 400 IU V. D for every 500 mg. Calcium. There's also 250 mg. Magnesium (Oxide, Citrate, and Aspartate). The directions specify 2 a day of this. I also use butter, olive oil, and coconut oil in cooking, so altogether, I guess I'll be at a daily dose of about 3,000 IU of V. D by the end of this week.
I live in the Pacific Northwest, and the gloom is setting in already (weather-wise, I'm still doing ok ) I hope this will be enough, but suppose I start having the symptoms...how do you suggest I best increase my dose?
Thanks for all your research. Here's hoping it's successful!~Gail
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, Sep-17-05, 14:58
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
Finding the Pieces
Posts: 16,988
 
Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/320.0/160 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 22%
Location: Maryland, US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gailew
Zuleikaa,
I have SAD and CFIDS, and so I've read your posts with interest. A couple of months ago I started taking 1 TBS. of cod liver oil in my smoothies every morning, and just recently added 1 TBS. of flaxseed oil to that. I've quit putting on sunblock unless I'm going to be outside for more than twenty minutes. I've ordered a coral calcium product with 400 IU V. D for every 500 mg. Calcium. There's also 250 mg. Magnesium (Oxide, Citrate, and Aspartate). The directions specify 2 a day of this. I also use butter, olive oil, and coconut oil in cooking, so altogether, I guess I'll be at a daily dose of about 3,000 IU of V. D by the end of this week.
I live in the Pacific Northwest, and the gloom is setting in already (weather-wise, I'm still doing ok ) I hope this will be enough, but suppose I start having the symptoms...how do you suggest I best increase my dose?
Thanks for all your research. Here's hoping it's successful!~Gail

Gailew
3,000 IU of D might or might not be enough if you have SAD and CFIDS which are indications of vitamin D deficincy. Or it might be enough now and not enough as fall deepens and winter approaches. A lot of research says that we use 4,000 IU/day and there's a study under dosage that shows that men in Idaho used 7,000 IU/day during the winter. You need to find the dose that you can tolerate where you feel well and your symptoms are much alleviated or disappear. The best thing would be to get tested.

When D should be increased every week or two to give your body a chance to get used to the increasing levels.

And make sure you get enough calcium and magnesium with the D as the three work synergistically.
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, Sep-17-05, 15:32
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
Finding the Pieces
Posts: 16,988
 
Plan: Mishmash
Stats: 365/320.0/160 Female 67
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Progress: 22%
Location: Maryland, US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
I've become a great believer in vitamin D in the last few years. I think it is best to let the body make its own through getting enough sunlight. Unfortunately, during the winter months there is not enough sunlight to start the chemical reaction.

What I have not been able to find out is what level of sunlight is too little to generate the vitamin D. I know summer is good and winter is bad, but I don't know where spring and autumn fit into the scheme of things.

I don't know when in the year to start taking vitamin D supplements and when I can stop taking them. Has anyone been able to find any data that shows what the cutoff point is for sunlight and vitamin D production?


Dodger
I think the definitive research on vitamin D has been done by Drs. Kline and Holick. Unfortunately I can't access the papers as I no longer have access to a subscription. However, they've blown the theory that you can get adequate intake from the sun if you live north of Newport News, SC during the winter out of the water. Further if you look at the link I have listed under dosage needed, there is a study that showed that men in Idaho with no extra winter sun exposure needed 7,000 IU/day to maintain healthy D levels.

I also think getting enough vitamin D production is a fallacy as they've found only lifeguards and landscapers have optimal levels during the summer. That's surely more sun than the 20-25 minutes I've seen recommended all over the net for making adequate D!!

That's why I look for actual studies concerning D and not people reporting lies/old science who are repeating lies/old science, wo are, etc, etc, etc.

D supplementation when and how much is very individual based on many factors such as age, race, heritage, and latitude of residence. It's also based on whether you go in to supplementation with a deficit already. Do read the links when you have a chance.

Meanwhile to get you started:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...7&dopt=Citation

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1988 Aug;67(2):373-8. Related Articles, Compound via MeSH, Substance via MeSH, Cited in PMC, Books, LinkOut


Influence of season and latitude on the cutaneous synthesis of vitamin D3: exposure to winter sunlight in Boston and Edmonton will not promote vitamin D3 synthesis in human skin.

Webb AR, Kline L, Holick MF.

Vitamin D, Skin, and Bone Research Laboratory, Boston University Medical School, Massachusetts 02118.

Sunlight has long been recognized as a major provider of vitamin D for humans; radiation in the UVB (290-315 nm) portion of the solar spectrum photolyzes 7-dehydrocholesterol in the skin to previtamin D3, which, in turn, is converted by a thermal process to vitamin D3. Latitude and season affect both the quantity and quality of solar radiation reaching the earth's surface, especially in the UVB region of the spectrum, but little is known about how these influence the ability of sunlight to synthesize vitamin D3 in skin. A model has been developed to evaluate the effect of seasonal and latitudinal changes on the potential of sunlight to initiate cutaneous production of vitamin D3. Human skin or [3 alpha-3H]7-dehydrocholesterol exposed to sunlight on cloudless days in Boston (42.2 degrees N) from November through February produced no previtamin D3. In Edmonton (52 degrees N) this ineffective winter period extended from October through March. Further south (34 degrees N and 18 degrees N), sunlight effectively photoconverted 7-dehydrocholesterol to previtamin D3 in the middle of winter. These results quantify the dramatic influence of changes in solar UVB radiation on cutaneous vitamin D3 synthesis and indicate the latitudinal increase in the length of the "vitamin D winter" during which dietary supplementation of the vitamin may be advisable.
http://www.cfs-recovery.org/vitamin_d.htm
Vitamin D - Part II
Most of us modern humans have only half as much vitamin D in our blood as our ancestors had in theirs.
(New! )
(Modified )
This page and the Parathyroid page are intended to be read together. Please see that page after reading this one.

How is Vitamin D Processed By the Body?
What does it do?
What is the government recommendation?
Are we getting enough?
Should We Try to Get Our Vitamin D From the Sun?
Severe Deficiency
Further Reading
How is Vitamin D Processed By the Body?
As mentioned on the previous page, when the ultraviolet light in sunlight strikes the skin, it creates vitamin D. The only food that contains significant amounts of vitamin D is fish liver. Our ancestors were farmers or hunter/gatherers and spent a lot of time in the sun. They got ten times the amount of vitamin D we get today. They had about double the amount of vitamin D in their blood as the average person today.
Vitamin D initially enters the body in one form and is then converted to a more active form. If you start taking vitamin D everyday, it can take about six weeks before the levels of active D peak in your bloodstream. It can take weeks to see an improvement!
The half life of active vitamin D is about eight weeks. It can take weeks or months for the active forms to leave the body. The levels of vitamin D in the blood depend on many factors.
What does it do?
Vitamin D has many functions. The most important is to help maintain proper levels of calcium in the blood by aiding absorption of calcium. Remember this function. It ties in with the function of the parathyroid gland, which you will read about on another page.
What is the government recommendation?
The government has a recommended daily allowance (RDA) for most vitamins. This is the amount sufficient to meet the requirements of nearly all healthy individuals. The government does not have sufficient information to make such a recommendation for vitamin D. Instead the government has what is called an “Adequate Intake” (AI). The AI for children and adults up to 50 years of age is 200 IU, for adults 50 to 70 it is 400 IU, and for adults older than 70 it is 600 IU.
Note that prior to 1997, the recommendation for everyone was 400 IU. The recommendation for most people was lowered at that time! The evidence for doing so is unclear.
How was this determined? The dose of 400 IU was determined by measuring the amount of vitamin D in a teaspoon of cod liver oil. This is the amount taken by children in England for many years and was known to be enough to prevent rickets. But vitamin D does more than protect from rickets. It affects at least 30 different systems in the body. Is this amount adequate to support these other systems? The government admits this is unknown, and it is the reason that vitamin D has an “Adequate Intake” number instead of a “Recommended Daily Allowance”.
Are we getting enough?
In northern areas, there is very little ultraviolet light available in the wintertime. Significant UV light is only available from the hours of 10AM through 2PM (11-3 daylight savings time). Of course, sunscreen filters most UV light. Even untinted windows filter out most UV light. Your commute to work and back in the morning and afternoon doesn't help you get the vitamin D you need!
Many of us simply don't get outside in the middle of the day. Many adults don't drink milk or eat much fish. If we don't get outside and don't take vitamins, there is a very high probability that we have insufficient vitamin D.
Most of our ancestors were farmers and spent most of their time in the sun. Today, we spend more and more time inside. When I was a child, parents encouraged children to play outside to get fresh air and sunshine. We had four TV channels. Today, kids have video games and over 100 channels to keep them inside. They are more likely to have karate classes or other activities that are held indoors.
People are spending less and less time outside. The rate of rickets among children is triple what it was a few years ago according to some reports.
Studies on people that spend a lot of time in the sun such as lifeguards and farmers show that they can have twice as much vitamin D in their blood as other people. Studies show that about 1% of the population has severe deficiency, but 25% to 50% have the lesser condition of vitamin D insufficiency.
In recent years, we’ve been repeatedly advised to stay out of the sun and use sunscreen. Yet, we’re often told that vitamins pills are a waste of time, and that if we eat a balanced diet we don’t need them. If we don’t get out in the sun and don’t drink milk or eat fish, there are no other sources of vitamin D. It is the forgotten vitamin.
Should We Try to Get Our Vitamin D From the Sun?
I've been asked this question several times lately.
I do believe that getting some sun everyday is important. In addition to creating vitamin D, sunlight affects several hormones. It suppresses melatonin which causes sleepiness.
Ultraviolet light which creates vitamin D is only available in the middle of the day. To get the level of vitamin D our caveman ancestors got from the sun, you would have to spend several hours in the sun in the middle of the day wearing very little clothing. This is hardly practical. If you went out in the sun with only your hands and head uncovered you would get about 400 units.
If you get your vitamin D from the sun, it is also very difficult to measure the dose. I personally need to keep the dose very constant.
In addition, there is the problem of skin cancer. Did our ancestors have a high rate of skin cancer or were they somehow protected? We don't know the answer to this question.
When the ultraviolet light in sunlight strikes the skin, it creates vitamin D3. Studies seem to show that taking vitamin D3 orally has the same effect.
Personally, I try to get 30 minutes of sunlight in the morning and another 40 minutes at noon time in addition to the vitamin D supplements that I take.
Severe Deficiency
In some cases of severe deficiency, large doses of vitamin D have been shown to have amazing results. One doctor treated five wheelchair bound patients with large doses of vitamin D. Four completely recovered in a few months. I urge people to see a doctor to have their vitamin D levels tested before starting, but even if your levels are "normal" you may still benefit greatly by taking vitamin D. "Normal" today was far below normal for our ancestors.
Further Reading
This is a wonderful article on the relationship between vitamin D, multiple sclerosis and autoimmune illness:
Vitamin D Supplementation In The Fight Against Multiple Sclerosis
I highly recommend this article published by Dr. Reinhold Vieth in 1999 presenting evidence that vitamin D is safe in doses up to 10,000 IU. It also shows that at least 4,000 units is desirable.
Vitamin D supplementation, 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentrations, and safety
I highly recommend these articles:
Sunlight Gains Favor As Health Key
Sunlight, health, and vitamin D
The Body's Response To Sunlight
Those that have problems with vitamin D, may wish to consider the possibility that they have Sarcoidosis. This can be treated by mainstream doctors with steroids.
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  #9   ^
Old Sat, Sep-17-05, 15:49
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
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This is an excellent link, too:
Benefits and requirements of vitamin D for optimal health: a review. http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/10/2/94.pdf

and http://www.newstarget.com/003069.html
Fifteen facts you probably never knew about vitamin D and sunlight exposure.
(Compiled by Mike Adams, based on an interview with Dr. Michael Holick, author, The UV Advantage)
Vitamin D prevents osteoporosis, depression, prostate cancer, breast cancer, and even effects diabetes and obesity. Vitamin D is perhaps the single most underrated nutrient in the world of nutrition (see related ebook on nutrition). That's probably because it's free: your body makes it when sunlight touches your skin. Drug companies can't sell you sunlight, so there's no promotion of its health benefits. Truth is, most people don't know the real story on vitamin D and health. So here's an overview taken from an interview between Mike Adams and Dr. Michael Holick.

Vitamin D is produced by your skin in response to exposure to ultraviolet radiation from natural sunlight.

The healing rays of natural sunlight (that generate vitamin D in your skin) cannot penetrate glass. So you don't generate vitamin D when sitting in your car or home.

It is nearly impossible to get adequate amounts of vitamin D from your diet. Sunlight exposure is the only reliable way to generate vitamin D in your own body.

A person would have to drink ten tall glasses of vitamin D fortified milk each day just to get minimum levels of vitamin D into their diet.

The further you live from the equator, the longer exposure you need to the sun in order to generate vitamin D. Canada, the UK and most U.S. states are far from the equator.

People with dark skin pigmentation may need 20 - 30 times as much exposure to sunlight as fair-skinned people to generate the same amount of vitamin D. That's why prostate cancer is epidemic among black men -- it's a simple, but widespread, sunlight deficiency.

Sufficient levels of vitamin D are crucial for calcium absorption in your intestines. Without sufficient vitamin D, your body cannot absorb calcium, rendering calcium supplements useless.

Chronic vitamin D deficiency cannot be reversed overnight: it takes months of vitamin D supplementation and sunlight exposure to rebuild the body's bones and nervous system.

Even weak sunscreens (SPF=8) block your body's ability to generate vitamin D by 95%. This is how sunscreen products actually cause disease -- by creating a critical vitamin deficiency in the body.

It is impossible to generate too much vitamin D in your body from sunlight exposure: your body will self-regulate and only generate what it needs.

If it hurts to press firmly on your sternum, you may be suffering from chronic vitamin D deficiency right now.

Vitamin D is "activated" in your body by your kidneys and liver before it can be used.

Having kidney disease or liver damage can greatly impair your body's ability to activate circulating vitamin D.

The sunscreen industry doesn't want you to know that your body actually needs sunlight exposure because that realization would mean lower sales of sunscreen products.

Even though vitamin D is one of the most powerful healing chemicals in your body, your body makes it absolutely free. No prescription required.

Diseases and conditions cause by vitamin D deficiency:
Osteoporosis is commonly caused by a lack of vitamin D, which greatly impairs calcium absorption.
Sufficient vitamin D prevents prostate cancer, breast cancer, ovarian cancer, depression, colon cancer and schizophrenia.
"Rickets" is the name of a bone-wasting disease caused by vitamin D deficiency.
Vitamin D deficiency may exacerbate type 2 diabetes and impair insulin production in the pancreas.
Obesity impairs vitamin D utilization in the body, meaning obese people need twice as much vitamin D.
Vitamin D is used around the world to treat Psoriasis.
Vitamin D deficiency causes schizophrenia.
Seasonal Affective Disorder is caused by a melatonin imbalance initiated by lack of exposure to sunlight.
Chronic vitamin D deficiency is often misdiagnosed as fibromyalgia because its symptoms are so similar: muscle weakness, aches and pains.
Your risk of developing serious diseases like diabetes and cancer is reduced 50% - 80% through simple, sensible exposure to natural sunlight 2-3 times each week.
Infants who receive vitamin D supplementation (2000 units daily) have an 80% reduced risk of developing type 1 diabetes over the next twenty years.


Shocking Vitamin D deficiency statistics:
32% of doctors and med school students are vitamin D deficient.
40% of the U.S. population is vitamin D deficient.
42% of African American women of childbearing age are deficient in vitamin D.
48% of young girls (9-11 years old) are vitamin D deficient.
Up to 60% of all hospital patients are vitamin D deficient.
76% of pregnant mothers are severely vitamin D deficient, causing widespread vitamin D deficiencies in their unborn children, which predisposes them to type 1 diabetes, arthritis, multiple sclerosis and schizophrenia later in life. 81% of the children born to these mothers were deficient.
Up to 80% of nursing home patients are vitamin D deficient.


What you can do:
Sensible exposure to natural sunlight is the simplest, easiest and yet one of the most important strategies for improving your health. I urge you to read the book, "The UV Advantage" by Dr. Michael Holick to get the full story on natural sunlight. You can find this book at most local bookstores or through BN.com, Amazon.com, etc. Note: This is not a paid endorsement or an affiliate link. I recommend it because of its great importance in preventing chronic disease and enhancing health without drugs or surgery. This may be the single most important book on health you ever read. If more people understood this information, we could drastically reduce the rates of chronic disease in this country and around the world. Sunlight exposure is truly one of the most powerful healing therapies in the world, far surpassing the best efforts of today's so-called "advanced medicine." There is no drug, no surgical procedure, and no high-tech procedure that comes even close to the astonishing healing power of natural sunlight.
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Old Sat, Sep-17-05, 19:33
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Dodger Dodger is offline
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Very good information, thanks. I haven't had the time to read all the references you posted yet, but I will get to them eventially.

What I have been looking for is something like the model that is discussed below
Quote:
A model has been developed to evaluate the effect of seasonal and latitudinal changes on the potential of sunlight to initiate cutaneous production of vitamin D3. Human skin or [3 alpha-3H]7-dehydrocholesterol exposed to sunlight on cloudless days in Boston (42.2 degrees N) from November through February produced no previtamin D3. In Edmonton (52 degrees N) this ineffective winter period extended from October through March. Further south (34 degrees N and 18 degrees N), sunlight effectively photoconverted 7-dehydrocholesterol to previtamin D3 in the middle of winter. These results quantify the dramatic influence of changes in solar UVB radiation on cutaneous vitamin D3 synthesis and indicate the latitudinal increase in the length of the "vitamin D winter" during which dietary supplementation of the vitamin may be advisable.
Somethiing where I input my latitude, altitude, time of year, time of day, relative skin darkness, etc. and the output is the amount of vitamin D produced per inch of exposed skin per hour. That way I could determine when supplementation was required.

I live slightly south of Boston, but 5000 feet higher.
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Old Sat, Sep-17-05, 20:44
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Dodger Dodger is offline
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I think that I have found what I was looking for through the sunarc.org web site.

The site http://www-med-physik.vu-wien.ac.at/uv/uv_online.htm has a vitamin D daily forecast. I just need to figure out the units.
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  #12   ^
Old Sat, Sep-17-05, 21:24
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
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That looks interesting. Tell me what you get when you get it, please.

I can't figure out how to use it. I'm sure it would help if I could.

Last edited by Zuleikaa : Sat, Sep-17-05 at 21:29.
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Old Sun, Sep-18-05, 08:26
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
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I thought this was interesting and helps to show why it's a fallacy that you can just look at the daily prediction for vitamin D production and supplement for the rest. One, if you have a deficit, the deficit needs to be treated/filled first. And two, vitamin D production, especially at certain latitudes or in fall/winter (if it's possible at all) has a very narrow window of availability (a short time when the sun is most intense) that a lot of people won't be able to take advantage of because of life constraints.

It's doctors arguing the findings of a study.

I also thought the agrument was interesting because the supporters of the study (originators) pointed out that vitamin D deficiency has now been found in regions where you wouldn't think it would be a problem. I really think vitamin D deficiency is related to industrialization and modern culture.

http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.co...sp?AID=556&UID=

MAYO CLIN PROC. 2004;79:694-709 © 2004 MAYO FOUNDATION FOR MEDICAL EDUCATION AND RESEARCH
Letters to the Editor
Vitamin D Deficiency and Chronic Pain: Cause and Effect or Epiphenomenon?
KEVIN J. MYERS, MD
Arthritis Specialists of Nashville, Inc Nashville, Tenn
To the Editor: Because of the article on hypovitaminosis D in the December 2003 issue of Mayo Clinic Proceedings, I now have patients with chronic pain requesting measurement of their vitamin D levels in addition to the usual list of unjustified tests. Plotnikoff and Quigley1 propose that the management of an exceedingly common condition—musculoskeletal pain of indeterminate origin—should include a routine assessment of vitamin D status. This conclusion is not supported by any data presented in the article, and the accompanying editorial by Holick2 challenges none of the authors’ hypotheses. The patient group analyzed in the study—patients with “persistent, nonspecific musculoskeletal pain”—is by definition an amalgam of disparate physical and emotional problems. The presence of biochemical vitamin D deficiency in this group indicates only that such a deficiency can be recognized commonly in Minnesota. In the absence of a concurrent comparison group, the study says nothing about whether vitamin D deficiency is more common in such patients than in the population at large or whether it has any role in causation. The comparison groups provided from historical controls are predominantly white, and it is not surprising that their 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels are higher than those of the selected ethnic groups in this study. Furthermore, this hypothesis immediately leads to several conclusions that are inconsistent with observed patterns of illness. If vitamin D deficiency is an important contributor to chronic musculoskeletal pain, why is the incidence of the disorder not profoundly different in different races once socioeconomic status is accounted for? Similarly, why is there no dramatic decrease in the incidence of chronic musculoskeletal pain on moving from northern to southern latitudes? Working as a rheumatologist in Tennessee, I am unfortunately certain that this entity is not a rare diagnosis in the South.
Before proposing a new clinical care standard for a common health problem, a confirmatory case-control study followed by an evaluation of the effects of vitamin D repletion would be advisable. To quote the authors, “The findings may simply reflect the background prevalence of hypovitaminosis D.”

1. Plotnikoff GA, Quigley JM. Prevalence of severe hypovitaminosis D in patients with persistent, nonspecific musculoskeletal pain. Mayo Clin Proc. 2003;78:1463-1470.
2. Holick MF. Vitamin D deficiency: what a pain it is [editorial]. Mayo Clin Proc. 2003;78:1457-1459.


In reply: Dr Myers’ letter questions the value of quantified serum vitamin D levels in patients with musculoskeletal pain of indeterminate origin. He asserts that such pain is, by definition, an amalgam of disparate physical and emotional problems. This is unfortunate. By definition, physical problems are determinable and “emotional problems” are diagnoses of exclusion.
In Table 2 in our article, we summarized findings in 5 of our patients with pain of indeterminate origin. Although these patients had consumed considerable health care resources with minimal benefit, no one had considered and ruled out a known cause of their musculoskeletal pain symptoms, osteomalacia. At best, these 5 patients had vitamin D levels of only 2 ng/mL (the lowest level of detection is 3 ng/mL). Surprisingly, 3 were women of childbearing age.
Dr Myers assumes that residents of Nashville, Tenn (36° north), are not at risk of vitamin D deficiency. However, significant deficiency in young people has been documented at similar latitudes in both the boreal hemisphere (including Beirut, Lebanon [34° north],1 and Niigata, Japan [38° north]2) and the austral hemisphere (including Melbourne [37° south] and Sydney [34° south], Australia,3,4 and Buenos Aires, Argentina [34° south]5). This is true despite the austral hemisphere’s approximately 2° difference in effective latitude (W. B. Grant, PhD, personal communication, February 2004). Even at 33° south (Cape Town, South Africa), winter sun has comparatively less than one third the capacity of summer sunlight to promote production of vitamin D.6 Furthermore, this limited capacity is restricted to precisely the hours that people are urged to avoid the sun.
Although vitamin D deficiency in young people across the United States is significant,7 we cannot afford to screen everyone. However, can we afford $10 to $15 billion each year in direct costs for treatment of osteoporosis and its complications?8 Our study justifies screening patients with persistent, nonspecific musculoskeletal pain because it documented that many patients considered at low risk for vitamin D deficiency were, in fact, severely or even profoundly deficient. Testing does not place the patient at risk—failure to diagnose deficiency may.
Gregory A. Plotnikoff, MD, MTS Keio University Medical School Tokyo, Japan

1. Gannage-Yared MH, Chemali R, Yaacoub N, Halaby G. Hypovitaminosis D in a sunny country: relation to lifestyle and bone markers. J Bone Miner Res. 2000;15:1856-1862.
2. Nakamura K, Nashimoto M, Matsuyama S, Yamamoto M. Low serum concentrations of 25-hydroxyvitamin D in young adult Japanese women: a cross sectional study. Nutrition. 2001;17:921-925.
3. Nozza JM, Rodda CP. Vitamin D deficiency in mothers of infants with rickets. Med J Aust. 2001;175:253-255.
4. Lipson T. Epidemic rickets in migrant families in Melbourne and Sydney. J Paediatr Child Health. 1995;31:483-484.
5. Fassi J, Russo Picasso MF, Furci A, Sorroche P, Jauregui R, Plantalech L. Seasonal variations in 25-hydroxyvitamin D in young and elderly and populations in Buenos Aires City [in Spanish]. Medicina (B Aires). 2003;63:215-220.
6. Pettifor JM, Moodley GP, Hough FS, et al. The effect of season and latitude on in vitro vitamin D formation by sunlight in South Africa. S Afr Med J. 1996;86:1270-1272.
7. Nesby-O’Dell S, Scanlon KS, Cogswell ME, et al. Hypovitaminosis D prevalence and determinants among African American and white women of reproductive age: third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, 1988-1994. Am J Clin Nutr. 2002;76:187-192.
8. National Institutes of Health Consensus Development Panel. Osteoporosis prevention, diagnosis, and therapy. NIH Consens Statement. 2000;17(1):7.


In reply: Dr Myers makes several good points about the incidence of nonspecific musculoskeletal pain as it relates to race, socioeconomic class, and latitude. Unfortunately, what he does not take into account is that vitamin D deficiency is common and widespread in both children and adults of all races throughout the United States.1,2 In many patients (especially those with lower socioeconomic status) who complain of muscle aches and bone pain, these symptoms are simply dismissed by their doctors, or more urgent concomitant medical problems overshadow these nonspecific complaints, which are discounted or considered associated with the patient’s poor health. Malabanan et al3 reported that an African American woman with excruciating bone pain and muscle aches responded dramatically to vitamin D therapy; the bone pain and muscle discomfort resolved completely, and she had a 25% increase in bone density in just 2 years. Gloth et al4 and Glerup et al5 reported that bone pain and myopathy are common features of vitamin D deficiency, and Bischoff et al6 reported that muscle weakness is commonly associated with vitamin D deficiency. Thus, substantial data in the literature support the role of vitamin D deficiency in the nonspecific musculoskeletal pain syndrome. Myers may be unaware that the lower limit of the 25-hydroxyvitamin D assay that is used to determine vitamin D status is inadequate. A 25-hydroxyvitamin D level of less than 20 ng/mL should be considered as vitamin D deficiency, not the less than 10 ng/mL level that most commercial laboratories report.7-9 Furthermore, a 25-hydroxyvitamin D level of between 30 and 50 ng/mL is preferred.10 I suspect that most of Myers’ patients are vitamin D deficient, which is why he has not appreciated the relationship between vitamin D deficiency and the nonspecific musculoskeletal pain syndrome. I agree that a controlled trial should be conducted to define the role of vitamin D deficiency in nonspecific musculoskeletal pain that is not associated with a rheumatologic disorder. Finally, in my experience, patients who receive 50,000 IU of vitamin D once or twice a month feel better, and when they stop the medication, they often develop muscle weakness and nonspecific aches and discomfort. I encourage Dr Myers to prescribe this regimen for his patients.
Michael F. Holick, PhD, MD Boston University School of Medicine Boston, Mass

1. Nesby-O’Dell S, Scanlon KS, Cogswell ME, et al. Hypovitaminosis D prevalence and determinants among African American and white women of reproductive age: third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, 1988-1994. Am J Clin Nutr. 2002;76: 187-192.
2. Holick MF. Vitamin D: importance in the prevention of cancers, type 1 diabetes, heart disease, and osteoporosis. Am J Clin Nutr. 2004;79:362-371.
3. Malabanan AO, Turner AK, Holick MF. Severe generalized bone pain and osteoporosis in a premenopausal black female: effect of vitamin D replacement. J Clin Densitom. 1998;1:201-204.
4. Gloth FM III, Lindsay JM, Zelesnick LB, Greenough WB III. Can vitamin D deficiency produce an unusual pain syndrome? Arch Intern Med. 1991;151:1662-1664.
5. Glerup H, Mikkelsen K, Poulsen L, et al. Commonly recommended daily intake of vitamin D is not sufficient if sunlight exposure is limited. J Intern Med. 2000;247:260-268.
6. Bischoff HA, Stahelin HB, Dick W, et al. Effects of vitamin D and calcium supplementation on falls: a randomized controlled trial. J Bone Miner Res. 2003;18:343-351.
7. Malabanan A, Veronikis IE, Holick MF. Redefining vitamin D insufficiency [letter]. Lancet. 1998;351:805-806.
8. Souberbielle JC, Lawson-Body E, Hammadi B, Sarfati E, Kahan A, Cormier C. The use in clinical practice of parathyroid hormone normative values established in vitamin D-sufficient subjects. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2003;88:3501-3504.
9. Holick MF. The parathyroid hormone D-lema [editorial]. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2003;88:3499-3500.
10. Heaney RP, Dowell MS, Hale CA, Bendich A. Calcium absorption varies within the reference range for serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D. J Am Coll Nutr. 2003;22:142-146.

Last edited by Zuleikaa : Sun, Sep-18-05 at 08:41.
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Old Fri, Sep-23-05, 18:13
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KittenLady KittenLady is offline
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Hi Zule,
I'm still on the D3 from last time! Even though I was out in the sun during the summer, I kept up with 800 IU a day. I'm up to 1200 IU a day, as is DH. All with my doctor's blessing. Since I have the "dry" form (figured out that I'm allergic to soybean oil -- it comes right back out the "other end"), I should be able to stick to it this year. So, count me in again!

And greetings to you, Mike! A fellow Coloradan!
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Old Sun, Sep-25-05, 07:29
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
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I'm feeling good. No SAD symptoms and weight is dropping.

I will be posting research abstracts of D related topics once a week or so.
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