If your piety makes you believe that others will be unduly influenced by the contents of that letter then please tell them that I have an iron bridge for sale, it's the real McCoy, it's called the Forth Bridge. If you are interested in it yourself, give me a call.

Sorry, Duparc, I can't agree with you. Responding to that letter does not show an urgent need to preach. I think that's an overreaction. Rather, Niudog's letter is exactly the kind of percolating jungle drum that's needed. (I'll forgive your mixed metaphor this time, hmmm.)

Ceberezin, only didactic people concern themselves about mixed metaphor.

You are in quite the mood today, Duparc. Are you doing okay?

As an atheist, I have little or no piety per se. I do, however, have a passing regard for objective truth and for the well-being of others.

If you wish to shun moral society and ignore false dogma then that is certainly within the human purview - any number of the credulous do this on a daily basis.

And, if the so-called dangers of meat-eating were widely recognized as just lunatic ravings and not a largely unchallenged dogma, then perhaps engaging them would indeed be didactic.

However, the dogmatic belief in the conventional but dubious dietary advice has harmed pretty much everyone on this site, and that tells me that continuing to engage the Vegans is not didactic but necessary. Acting to counter bad dietary advice seems laudable enough to me - indeed, you have done that yourself.

Gotbeer, I can see that we are engaging in an affray here. I note too that you advertise yourself as an atheist yet manage to quote Proverbs. A Freudian slip, maybe? I doubt, however, if morality is part of the constitution.

An "affray", sir? I have no quarrel with your disinterest in engaging the Vegans - that is certainly a valid strategy, even if I think it an unwise one. I am simply positing that there is valid case for engagement as well.
Though others may have arrived at their atheism by differing paths, I am an Atheist not because I am ignorant of Scripture, but rather, because I am overly familiar with it. That particular proverb (31:6-9) is handy when engaging those of the faithful who are nominally teetotalers and who believe that eschewing alcohol has a sound Scriptural basis. It doesn't - at least, not in any way that makes sense to me, and particularly in light of Proverbs 31:6-9!

Likewise, God-talk in general makes little sense to me, in part because I'm not completely certain what people mean by "God", and in part because inconsistencies in conventional God-talk leave me with insurmountable doubts.

To which constitution do you refer, sir? My morality is innate in my human constitution. Where the morality of others may come from, I cannot say, but like God-talk, various views of morality often leave me puzzled.

For example, your own notion that the credulous should be defrauded into the purchase of goods of dubious value - certain bridges - seems to me to lack a compelling moral case.

In many U.S. jurisdictions, the willful failure to stop an easily preventable human death is called "Depraved Indifference", and is a serious criminal offense. In that sense, morality is in the US constitution to the extent that the constitution allows such prosecutions to proceed.

Wow!!! I never meant for this to spiral into such a spirited discussion amongst us members of this board.

I can't imagine the ire I would raise if I actually did send the letter. I am more than willing to spread the good news of LC life style to family and friends alike, but as I said in an earlier post, I really dont want a PETA protest in my driveway.

Even if you did find their presence troublesome, you could just toss a couple of pork rinds at them, and I am sure they would scurry away. Firing up the grill and searing some steaks should mop up any stragglers.

Sounds like a plan. I'll bring some lamb chops.

Wyv

Niudog,

Do you happen to know the name of the editor you are sending this too?

Oh wow .. uh it takes 25lbs of vegetable protein to make 1lb of beef protein... a meat eater eats way more than one animal a year by far!! And vegetable protein is far more nutrient dense and fiber full. You can feed way more people for much longer on vegetable protein. I am vegan and doing low carb. You don't have to kill anything to lose weight. And farming all that land for food for cows is a bad transfer of energy. You would do alot better to just eat protein from plants insteads of wasting it trying to feed it to a cow first and getting a product that is full of hormones, bacteria, fat and yes cruelty. If you don't think meat makes the world cruel watch this movie http://www.meetyourmeat.com/
I can come to a low carb diet with an open mind .. can you come to veganism with an open mind? I welcome your comments .

Hi Aloethe, was a vegetarian for around 18 years and it almost killed me. How long have you been a vegan and how's your health and energy levels today?

Hi I have been vegetarian since I was 13 .. and I am 30 now so 17 years, vegan for almost two years now. I feel really great especially since going low carb also.

I should say the way i gained my weight.. (which i gained between august and november last year...I weighed 130 before my gain) i believe was solely from increasing my carb intake. I met some vegans who indulged in many packaged vegan foods (not necessarily marketed to vegans) that i didn't know were vegan before.. like unfrosted poptarts.... I thought wow great I can eat vegan and eat candyand cookies.. very stupid and I became addicted to carbs eating lots of crackers and jam, tons of toast, candy and my evening meal became a huge plate of any kind of grains with a few beans and lots of oil and I also became more inactive and depressed especailly after suffering some trauma in my life and started to use food to comfort me. I got away from eating raw and whole, lower carb vegan things and viola i grew bigger. Now I am taking notice of the carbs I eat and were my food comes from. Trying to eat organic and staying away from packaged foods. So far so good and I am losing weight.

Sounds as if you are journeying on the road that some of us have already trod. I wish you bon voyage.