JPaleo, in your case I'd suggest that since you're not stressing and obsessing over food any longer (stress is a big trigger for IBS), perhaps that's the reason you are seeing an improvement at this time. The test will be if you are symptom-free several months to a year from now.

In your father's case, perhaps he's just one of the lucky few. After all, there are people who smoke their entire lives and never develop emphysema or lung cancer but I wouldn't use that as an argument that smoking isn't unhealthy or that some have a genetic tolerance for the chemicals and nicotene in cigarrettes. Then again, there are those who seem to be the picture of health and fitness who succumb to a sudden fatal heart attack (Jim Fix comes to mind here).

Blanket statements like the ones quoted from the site are never good... but switching from a moderate fat and protein and very high green veggie diet to a diet primarily of raw meat, raw eggs, raw fat and butter has completely changed my life. I feel so good..I won't even get into the long list of sympoms which have diminished or disappeared. Before eating this way I very much believed in a 65-80% veggie and the rest protein way of eating.

Perhaps part of what CAN make a person feel worse on low carb is their food choices. There are a lot of over processed and over cooked foods that people can lose weight on, yet not feel great. I think overcooked meat, cheese, and other crap items are what will contribute to the constipation that a raw fatty/meaty diet would not encourage.

Every one has to figure out what makes them feel best.
However, I'll second the fact that grains can be associated with many degenerative, inflammatory and autoimmune conditions, AND that too much omega 6 is bad.

As for this diet being the opposite of all cancer cure diets - check out Aajonus Vonderplanitz (yea, weird name). He has an astonishing success rate with his clients in terms of "curing" incurable diseases and cancers, as well as his own. He's been eating this way for 33 years (raw meat, raw milk, raw fat, raw honey, raw eggs, few veggies) and according to every reference is in a very healthful and robust condition.
There are many carcinogens associated with cooked and esp. over cooked food. Maybe the answer lies less in how many carbs one eats but how fresh and natural their food is? Also, don't forget that a person's genetic constitution has a lot to do with how much their body can take. Unfortunately for some it does not take much abuse to make them sickly and weak, others can eat pizza, drink coke and smoke for their entire lives and not feel poorly.

www.mercola.com/2001/jan/21/weston_price.htm
www.angelfire.com/ny2/bass/disease-cure.html
..just for kicks... www.karlloren.com/aajonus/index.htm

Meg_S,

how does one safely go about eating raw meat? I understand that the paleo folk could do so because they killed the animals themselves, but what do you do? just curious...

eek, I didn't mean to sound like I was encouraging everyone else to eat raw meat. I choose to, and believe very strongly in it's health benefits. I'd prefer not to get into a "germ war" here..just mentioning this because this is a topic which could potentially spark a germ war.

As for safely doing it, I just do. I get meat from the local grocer or a local market and generally try to get grassfed organic. Sometimes I buy from a local game farm, but not usually because they're too far away. Other than that I don't really take any precautions..I'd never buy meat where I felt "iffy" about the source, for example walmart and other big chain grocery stores. Unless I knew the butcher personally and talked to him about a particular brand. I used to diguise the flavour & texture but I don't need to anymore. I just let the meat warm to room temp and eat it with a few spices. oh! I don't buy "chuck" or ground meat just because the handling is higher and there is more of a risk. If I get fish it's only sushi grade.

If you know where your meat comes from it's a lot safer than you think. The danger lies in the industry, not in raw meat itself. Raw meat can actually be left on the counter for a couple of days (given it was safe to begin with) and still be consumed without making one ill. The same thing goes with milk.. milk only needs to be pasturized because of the disgusting way that the cows are treated and the ill health that they can be in and still be forced to give milk....well that and that pasturized milk can sit on shelves for ages.

I followed a strict paleo plan for 2 solid months a year or so ago and my digestive system was messed up the whole time. Then I did a more modified plan for many months and it was still a problem. Then I started getting stressed about the whole eating thing and my obsessive problems with food started. But initially I was not stressed about it. And now, sure I am not stressing about food anymore but believe me, there is still plenty of stress going on in my life. In fact, there is situation going on right now that is extremely stressful. And still I am doing better than I was the whole time I was low carb (even the times I was not stressing over it).




I thought Jim Fixx didn't start trying to be healthy until he was 35. Before that he was a 2 pack a day smoker. It is most likely that the damage was already done by then. Smoking in one of the leading causes of cardiovascular diseases. It'll harden your arteries right up. I also have never been convinced that constant, vigorous exercise (like running for Jim Fixx) is good for the body. I think you can reach a point where it is too taxing and does more damage than good. I do believe moderate exercise is good, or gentle exercise (yoga, pilates). My dad has done Tai-Chi since he was a boy.

-J

well, you are far braver than me, I think I'll stick to cooking my ribeyes to a nice state of rareness...

JPaleo
I am in total agreement with you and have had the same experience myself. I tried Atkins but never felt right. I then tried the Zone thinking that more vegetables and fruit would help. It didn't, even though I tried and tried tweaking it to make it work for me.
In desperation I tried Potatoes not Prozac by Kathleen DesMaisons and I feel better than I have felt in years. The addition of complex carbs made an incredible difference. It seems that my body needs complex carbs in order to function properly.
I was very reluctant at first fearing the spike in insulin but it has never happened. I eat less, have loads of energy and feel terrific. Low carb does not work for me for sure!

Kabina, I knew I couldn't be the only one!

I have heard about Potatoes not Prozac from a few people now. I'll have to look into that. I really do think that some people are just made to do better on more carbs.

-J

Meg- I like my meat cooked a little on the outside, since I have been too lazy/cheap to buy organic. I must say, liver is a lot more satisfying raw in the middle than cooked all the way through. Maybe because it's more nutritious that way. When we've cleared the freezer enough to make room for half an ox we'll get one as there seem to be some good local organic/pasture fed sources. I hope we can get the organs too.

Wyv

Potatoes not Prozac is not a book about nutrition or dieting. It is a book about mood disorders. Serotonin related disorders, to be exact. It pushes eating carbs for your mood disfunctions. It is a typical "I found the answer for everyone" book; that may in fact just help a few.

It doesn't help anyone who has a real problem with carbs; and a lot of people do because of the way we all grew up.

The issue here and all over is that you have to be intelligent when you read or look at anything that anyone advises you to do. There is no one magic bullet that works for every single person.

My own grandfather did what he wanted and ate what he wanted until he died. And he chewed tobacco. He didn't die of any disease; just old age (almost 100). And he didn't eat any special diet. But he did eat whole, natural foods. And he worked hard every day. Yet, my brother, his grandson, just passed away last year from cancer at the age of 51.

I belive for each person it is listening to their bodies and learning everything they can and acknowledging what we have done to our own food supply. There is nothing wrong with an apple. It has very good cancer fighting properties...low GI. But after what is put on it while it is growing, and afterwards...never get me to eat another one from a regular grocer.

I believe in eating whole foods; and organic foods if possible. But I didn't always eat this way; you can't turn back the clock; you can only move forward and that is what I intend to do. I may not live to be 100; or even 51; but I'll do the best I can while i'm here. If eating some way makes you miserable, then what have you gained. I think if you eat a certain way and it is right for you, then you will feel good from it; not miserable.

Quietone

My condolences on the loss of your brother.
I disagree with you regarding EVERYTHING you say about Potatoes Not Prozac. The book is very helpful and explained exactly why low carb did not work for me. Up until I read the book I thought that too much insulin was the reason I got cravings for candy,bread and baked goods every day. I have spent years trying to figure out why low carb wasn't working.
Now I realise that sugar is the problem for me and I now know how to eat to suit my body chemistry. It works like magic......I was amazed at the difference.
I am sure there are lots of others who are also finding it difficult and this book may help. It is NOT a cure-all book, it is a cure for sugar sensitivity. Losing weight then becomes a LOT easier because you are no longer hungry and craving junk.
I am not saying that it will work for everyone, nothing does!
I am just passing on my experience in the hope that it will help others who are struggling and can't figure out why.
Complex carbs are necessary for sugar-sensitive people. There are vast numbers of people who suffer from this without realizing it (I was one of them). I was very sceptical at first but the difference is amazing.
The book is based on science not quackery!

Kabina

Again, the argument comes up that carbs are actually needed in some people's bodies to make/get sufficient serotonin into the brain. It does not seem to ALWAYS be the case; indeed, some people seem to do better with more protein and very few carbs. Their brains must be wired differently.

I have a problem with depression when my carbs go too low. I also have the same problem if I don't get enough protein. It seems to be a balance that is hard to strike if one is also trying to lose weight. Then again, keep the brain happy and the body wants less???

It also seems to work using the method of ingesting lots of protein, waiting a few hours, then having fruit/carb to raise insulin and get tryptophan into brain = feel good/more serotonin.

One thing that is a shame with most low-carb books is they fail to address this issue of insulin with regards to serotonin levels in the brain. It seems half the people mend their moods through low-carb, but the other half get worse, at least initially (though for me it went on).

Oh dear, ramble, sorry.

Loops

Well, I haven't found any way of eating that seems to help the lack of serotonin in my brain. I have tried the PNP as well this one and many others. I thought vegetarian did until I realized I just feel better every spring and it was purely coincidental that I started that diet in the spring.

The difference is this for me: low carb doesn't help the lack of serotonin, but it does completely obliterate the constant mood swings I get when I do any type of high carb diet.

It doens't matter if it is high complex carbs or not. My body still sees it as sugar because it is. It may process slower, but it is still sugar. And I still gain weight. I have tried the oh, so holy grail of 25-40 grams of fiber a day. I did very slowly as suggested, I gained an enormous amount of weight in a very short time, had constant gas, and did #2 every time I peed!

I think you have to come back to the bottom line...not every thing works for everybody. That includes PNP. If you have a bio-chemical imbalance, food is not going to fix it. But I feel, why be miserable and fat when I can be miserable and thin?

According to T.S. Wiley who wrote "Lights Out: Sleep, sugar and survival," seratonin levels increase with sleep. That's why people who don't get enough sleep (along with a high-carb diet) can be more irrational, irritable and depressive. Whether we believe everything in this book or not, there are more and more studies showing that sleep suppresses appetite and produces/preserves seratonin in our bodies.

Yes, I understand that point and all the others regarding serotonin.

But they are speaking to/of people who do not have a physiological reason for not producing enough serotonin. Diet/exercise/sleep or anything else is not going to fix this. It can "help" it by maintaining all of these things well, but it doesn't fix it.

Most, if not all, alcoholics are serotonin deficient. Or so it is believed. That is one reason why a lot of them crave sweets when they give up alcohol. Same feel good response. But they never, ever will be able to produce the adequate amounts of chemicals (serotonin or dopamine or norepinephrine) necessary to stop wanting to drink. It is a constant daily battle for most.

And thereby, most children of alcoholics also have this chemical deficiency. you can't fix it with food, or alcohol, or drugs. But a lot try it. But it is an inherited problem. Usually, the father was one, the father's father was one, and on down the line. Not because of seeing it or living it, but because they have inherited a deficiency.

Same reason SAD runs in families a lot of the time. It is an inherant deficiency in the chemicals in the brain.

now, what was this thread about???