I don't know if I can explain this any better than Atkins, and other people seem to be helping with it too, but I'll try.

People have done studies where test subjects, who were extremely obese, consumed diets of equal calories composed of different food types.

Example: Subject A ate a 1000 calorie diet of 100 % carbohydrates. Subject B ate a 1000 calorie diet of approximately 100% protein (maybe it was powdered?). Subject C ate a diet of 100% fat. Now this study at the 1000 calorie level is a level where pretty much everyone loses weight, simply because it to low calorie. The A person lost a little weight, maybe 1-2 pounds per week. The B person lost considerably more, maybe 3-4 pounds per week. (I don't have this memorized after all.) The C person lost the most weight like 5-6 pounds per week. The study also pushed the calories of the fat intaking person to 2600 calories of fat, and they still lost weight at a fast rate.

There is mention of this study in both the Woman Doctor's Diet for Women, and the Atkins book.

Take my supper for example (not literally )

I'm having a giant peice of steak for supper, I'm not sure how many calories it has, it covers the dinner plate and has lots of fat all over it. Needless to say I am enjoying it immensely.

A big piece of steak like this has a lot of calories. How many, I don't know. I will continue to lose weight on my program no matter how many calories of meat and fat I consume tonight.

The difference is, I wouldn't lose any weight on my program if I had a baked potato with it. It's not the calories that matter, it's what they're made of. This was what Atkins was trying to say in his comparison of Harry Kronberg's before and after diet menus and calorie comparisons. As long as you cut carbohydrates, you need not cut calories. In fact, several people on this forum have pointed out that you need to make sure that you are consuming enough food to keep your body out of starvation mode, where the body thinks it's not getting enough fuel and starts saving your fat.

I hope I helped you to understand what it is that I was talking about.

Elihnig

Elihnig
I do understand that people seem to lose weight at different rates depending on what they eat. I am trying to understand how/why.

IslandGirl
I don't doubt that this stuff works. I am doing it! I just want to understand how.

Doreen
Many, many thanks for your explanations. You have obviously spent lots of time helping me here, and I really appreciate it. BTW, I have now bought the Atkins New Diet book (today) and I am reading it avidly. However, I've yet to find any answer to my question.

You said (twice) as the end point
"thus making it easier for fat cells to release their fat content ..."

This is where I have the problem. Now the fat is released, what happens to it? If it is burnt by living/exercise then surely this is again simply calorie deficit, since it will take some movement or process to burn the fat that has been released. If it is not burnt off by living/exercise, then what happens to it?

My theory at this point (I am very willing to change my view) is that we lose weight more through low carb diets by a calorie deficit caused by a metabolic increase caused by the diet. I would love to believe that fat is somehow "washed away" with other body wastes, but I can't see yet how this would happen.

Thanks again.
Cheers
Alec

I THINK the body attempts to burn the released fat for energy. But in the absense of carbs, the fat is incompletely burned and produces ketones, some of which are used for energy, most of which are eliminated. That's off the top of my head. I think.

Then there's the Whoosh Fairy theory....

Rachel

Not sure if this helps.. I got this off the "How Stuff Works" webiste:



Doesnt it stand to reason that if I need a set amount of calories for my body to function (say 2300), and I am not ingesting that set amount (I typically eat 1700), the amount remaining (600) must come from somewhere; stored fat. It is burned during the course of my day.

Nat

Hi, I just started induction, how much weight did you lose in this phase? I hope I will lose at least 10pd, am I dreaming, I have abot 15pd give or take to lose. see ya orsola

Nat said:

"Doesnt it stand to reason that if I need a set amount of calories for my body to function (say 2300), and I am not ingesting that set amount (I typically eat 1700), the amount remaining (600) must come from somewhere; stored fat. It is burned during the course of my day."

That's exactly where I am at currently. We are losing weight and burning fat because of calorie deficit.

However, there are some here (and Atkins does this too) who are claiming that calories don't matter and there are people who lose more weight than they burn in calories. I am trying to understand how.

Rachel
Maybe you have a reasonable answer. The only way I can see of people losing more weight than they burn is by passing some of the "released" fat out of the body unburned/unused. Is this possible in the absence of carbs? Did you get this from an article or book? If so, do you have a reference?
Cheers
Alec

Hi, Alec. I believe it's in Atkins. Now I don't remember (and I don't have time to look right now - gotta go to work) if there's a page reference, or if I just surmised it from something he said. But I'm pretty sure it's in Atkins, possibly in the 'metabolic advantage' section. And yes, ketones leaving the body unburned for energy would happen only in the absence of carbs, according to what I've read.

Rachel

Lowered blood sugar permits a lowered level of insulin hormone which in turn allows an elevated level of glucagon hormone (pancreatic hormones, insulin/glucagon ratio) AND an elevated level of glucagon catalyzes the *release* of stored fatty acids, of which ketones are a breakdown product.

Higher Blood Sugar means High Insulin, Lowered Glucagon, Reduced Ketones (sorry, Dot, but Ketosis isn't about having measurable ketones in the urine, it's about the ratio of Insulin (stores fat) to Glucagon (releases fat), normally. All things being metabolically equal, no spill-over in the urine just means the stuff is, essentially, being fully utilized. Other than that, you've got it ALL covered. Beautifully done!

Right you are Judi, although I can't see where I mentioned that it does?? Oh well, good point about the release of glucogon in response to lowered insulin levels. We must remember though, that glucagon can be a double-edged sword, since its other role is to stimulate the liver to release stored glycogen (sugar) into the blood when glucose levels are low ... Of course, the likely cause of low blood sugar is too high insulin .... ... 'tis a fine balancing act.

Doreen

Absitively, Do. But then this is where things DO get complicated because, as you probably know but is not readily put into a simple statement or two (my original point way back
- lowered carb intake should mean lowered glycogen storage (preferential in the liver but the muscles too) so a blunted blood sugar spike
- adrenaline release triggers glucagon/glycogen release (the stress connection)
- caffeine triggers adrenaline (the caffeine connection

A fine dance indeed, but the metabolic advantage is that lowering carb intake blunts ALL these responses and normalizes/lowers blood sugars and thus insulin response and/or levels.

PS: it's really nice to chat about these things again, hope you don't mind?

"I love it!", she typed, shooing an amorous cat off the keyboard.


Do

Another very slow loser here. I just clocked my sixth pound after a month of low carb (staying close to induction levels of carbs) and exercising strenuously 3 times a week. I don't do aspartame and I eat enough and steer clear of things with glycerin and the like. Still I am losing so slowly. Over the past year I've lost the same 10 lbs over and over again. I would say that it takes me about 3 months to lose 10 lbs and then I get so frustrated, it takes me a few days to put it back on when I go off of whatever plan. Then it's back to trying to lose that 10 lbs. I had my thyroid checked and I'm okay but so frustrated. Some days I even feel bigger than when I started. I somehow think that if I could just get past these 10 lbs I might go faster, I don't know why my body needs to hang onto this weight!!!

HI, At least you lost something I feel like I gained weight since I been on atkins induction-thurs will be a week -I will cut down on my protein,cause I do eat it all sday long, I drink one cup of decafe a day,he says thats OK-I know it so depressing isnt it-anyway when you go of atkin try to eat good carbs only for a while cause I know alot of people who gain weight right back when they go off atkins. I will try something else next week like protein p or go-diet my frind start when I start on atkins(go-diet) and she lost weight already. You can find go diet on the web just type go-diet.com good luck



orsola

Guess what?

If you are on a "diet" then return to your former way of eating, you gain weight. That's why there are few successful "dieters". If you change your eating habits permanently, guess what?

You don't gain weight back. Wow! What a surprise.

Karen

IslandGirl
I still don't get it.

What do you mean by "release" in "...an elevated level of glucagon catalyzes the *release* of stored fatty acids, of which ketones are a breakdown product."

When it is "released", what happens to it? Where does it go? How does it exit the body?
Cheers
Alec