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  #76   ^
Old Wed, Oct-20-04, 15:31
ItsTheWooo's Avatar
ItsTheWooo ItsTheWooo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angeline
I don't know what's in the American psyche that makes these shows popular. Yesterday I was watching where male contestants were told they would participate in some sort of Fear Factor show. They came prepared to eat worms and found out, at the last minute, that they had been tricked. The contest is in actually a beauty contest.... with them dressed in drags.

It was funny I suppose. But there was a sadistic element to it. To see exposed the lengths at which people are prepared to humiliate themselves to get money. And, more to the point, the lengths at which producers are willing to go.

Let me contrast this with a show that ran in Quebec last year. It was a sort of American Idol type of show with local talent. Came the time when some of the contestants had to be eliminated. They had the usual humiliating bit where they are told basically that they aren't good enough to be the next idol and are booted off the show. In this particular show, the score was determined by a pannel of judges.

Well, they had so many complaints from the audience that they had to change their format. They changed it to a secret vote. The participant was simply told he was not choosen. They skipped the whole humiliation bit.

Personally...
I think the American desire to see fellow humans shamed and humiliated is a product of our materialistic culture. We are a very materialistic country... we have inadequate spiritual bonds to humanity and the collective, we worship the false idols of wealth and status above all else, even before meaningful human relationships (e.g. family, husband/wife relationships, roots, and in general transpersonal/spiritual relationships with other beings).

Status and wealth seeking behaviors are at odds with family/emotional/tradition preservationist ones. The two drives exist on an axis, and one pulls against the other.
Seeing as America is a country founded on the former principles (status, wealth, and productivity being greater than anything), if our country is to sustain itself that means our culture must condition its people to share similar views and to hold those ideals in high regard. We carefully condition our people toward being fearful, distrustful, anti-social, and isolated. There are numerous examples of this... for example, our nightly news (which would have you believe all people are criminals and exist only to somehow try to exploit you), the slow deterioration of family/social structures, and what passes for entertainment (reality shows where people are debased into objects for exploition and humiliation). The goal of all of this is to condition the individual toward hyper expression of individual/selfish/me-first nature, and away from a collective/selfless/community/empathetic oriented one. People would prefer to work 40 hours a week to afford material things, instead of live a modest life and spend more time with family.

It's important that the American be conditioned in this way. When individuals worship only themselves and their base desires, they naturally seek superficial augments to it - status, wealth, clothes, items, industry fuel and fodder. When individuals are more spiritual, when they value intangiable, permanent things like heratige, culture, family, roots, tradition, the soul, or have some kind of religion, when they are more socially aware and better socialized, they are less focused on their superficial individual sensual desires/wants/goals. They are less likely to look for self aggrandizing augments like buying the biggest house in the suburbs or the most expensive SUV. By logical extension, spiritual people tend to live modest lifestyles and do not support industrial growth nearly as well as materialistic people.

Other countries are much more balanced between materialism and spiritualism. Their culture reflects this, and so the individuals within are better socialized... they don't tend toward being as fearful, hateful, and otherwise anti-social as your average american. Generally speaking, in Canada a trashy show where people are humiliated wouldn't be nearly as successful, because canadians have a much more sophisticated eomtional awareness for fellow human beings. They feel more of a sense of community with people, they have a stronger neighborly spirit, and empathy would kick in. They would feel bad for the other people and not find their misery a source of entertainment, instead of objectifying them and laughing at their plight like an American audience might do. The sense of community and brotherhood and unity with a collective has been so utterly demolished in your average American.
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  #77   ^
Old Wed, Oct-20-04, 16:06
irisda's Avatar
irisda irisda is offline
Busty McChacha
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or it could just be entertainment
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  #78   ^
Old Wed, Oct-20-04, 17:22
Angeline's Avatar
Angeline Angeline is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irisda
or it could just be entertainment


But you still need to question WHY it is entertaining.

Some find people crashing, falling, or being catapulted out of various vehicles very entertaining. (that's another show on tv, whose name escape me now). I find it upsetting and I worry that people were hurt.

<shrug> It could also be a guy thing.
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  #79   ^
Old Wed, Oct-20-04, 17:51
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southbel southbel is offline
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I spend more than ample time with my husband and my daughter, and yet I still desire the nice house and even the nice car. As a matter of fact, my daughter at eight years old, has never even had a babysitter. Additionally, we eat as a family every night, go on vacations together, and spend plenty of time together in various activities.

I think this show is fine to watch. Why do I find this show entertaining? Look at some of the posts. First of all, there are more Americans overweight than normal weight. Several of the previous posters have compared their own bodies to those they have seen and have commented on how they would or would not react to certain situations that came up during the show. I think the show is entertaining because all of us, in one way or another, can see a little of ourselves in these people. Will some fail? Absolutely, and in this way, it actually does mimic real life because, as I am sure we have all experienced, failure when dieting does occur.

I completely disagree with some of the approaches towards both diet and exercise in this show. However, I found something really odd happened. After watching this show, I turned to my husband and started talking about playing tennis and going rollerblading. Perhaps a little motivation? After all, I look at some of these people that are larger than myself and they are doing this extreme exercise and are still living the next day. Hey, in that case, I should be able to do some moderate exercise just fine then.

There is this holier than thou attitude towards reality television. You know what, I don't care. I enjoy the show. I realize that everyone of these people went on this show voluntarily, and I'll continue to watch it all without degrading the quality of my family life or my intelligence.
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  #80   ^
Old Thu, Oct-21-04, 05:23
serrelind serrelind is offline
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It's entertainment. A contest to win $250k. My gosh, I'd love to get a crack at that Unfortunately I would not fare well there because I don't have a lot of weight to lose and therefore at the elimination round, I would probably be the first to go They should really change that because I don't think that's fair. Just because a 150lb woman loses less than a 300lb woman doesn't mean the former is lazy or not working as hard.
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  #81   ^
Old Thu, Oct-21-04, 07:56
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VickySail VickySail is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoKo
Often you don't know you're going to throw up until you stop working out, it just happens quite suddenly. It dosen't seem to happen to everyone, but I frequently get sick or feel sick within a few minutes of finishing a workout, it's a sign you've done a good job as it HGC - Human Growth Hormone can cause nausea and you produce it after a good workout. The nauseau doesn't last long and once you know why you feel it, it's very easy to deal with.


Wow! So THAT'S why I always felt like barfing after running across a parking lot and up a couple of flights of stairs for a train!

Ya learn something new every day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsTheWoo
I don't know if you saw the commercial or not during the biggest loser, but they have another show where a woman has to pretend to have won the lottery, and she has to spend all the money on herself... in front of her family... who's every lurid horrified guttural reaction will be documented detail by detail. The shame and embarrassment factor is huge there.


Geez, even THINKING about doing that in front of my kid breaks my heart.

Vicky

Last edited by VickySail : Thu, Oct-21-04 at 08:04.
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  #82   ^
Old Thu, Oct-21-04, 08:40
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
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Quote:
But you still need to question WHY it is entertaining.


Personally, I think I'd be a bit embarassed to have my 2 girls seeing me enjoying or being entertained by someone else's public humiliation whether that person agreed to it/is willing to submit to it for money or not since it contradicts what I've been trying to teach them about how to relate to and treat others. I don't think I'd want to send them the message that public humiliation and shaming is funny or entertaining as long as the person is being paid well enough or has the prospect of being paid well for submitting to it; in other words, "money makes everything okay".
*Shrug* I guess that's why we don't watch shows like that at my house.
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  #83   ^
Old Thu, Oct-21-04, 09:16
K Walt K Walt is offline
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Why is it entertaining?

My theory.

Most of us have to endure a lot of frustration throughout the day. That obnoxious bank teller with way too much make-up, we would all LOVE to tell her, "you're way too ugly, you are mean and grouchy, and you are fired from this bank forever." Of course, we can't.

A co-worked makes some asinine comment. We would LOVE to put him in his place. . ."You are too stupid to live. You are fired, good bye"." Of course, we can't.

We'd love to see our pompous-assed bosses humiliated and downgraded. (Of course, we can't do that.) We'd love to see that rich, haugthy wive-of-the-boss slapped down and tossed out of the party.

We can't do any of this, so we have to settle for watching someone else do it.
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  #84   ^
Old Thu, Oct-21-04, 10:45
irisda's Avatar
irisda irisda is offline
Busty McChacha
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There are things that I wont watch i.e. Jerry Springer (its a personal opinion that I think its a big factor in the decline of western civilization but thats just me)

What I dont quite get is this whole notion that "reality tv" is just so horrible. I do agree that some shows are better than others. I would never watch for instance the swawn. I just thought the whole concept about fixing your life with plastic surgery and then having a beauty contest was not so great but I do watch plastic surgery shows such as before and after on discovery channel.

We all know that a lot of reality tv shows are contrived but the people's reactions are generally real. You can only hide your true self for so long before it comes out. I am not laughing at the overweight people on the biggest looser. As a matter of fact I admire how brave they are that they would step to the forefront like that. How many of us would be willing to strip down and get in front of people on a scale. I dont think my name would be at the top of the list to do it.

There is a whole pompous sort of attitude towards reality tv. The way that it used to be with just regular tv. You would talk about a television program with someone and before you could finish the sentence you would hear 'oh i dont watch television'. As if that put them on some sort of higher level. Gimme a break.
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  #85   ^
Old Thu, Oct-21-04, 11:18
ItsTheWooo's Avatar
ItsTheWooo ItsTheWooo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K Walt
Why is it entertaining?

My theory.

Most of us have to endure a lot of frustration throughout the day. That obnoxious bank teller with way too much make-up, we would all LOVE to tell her, "you're way too ugly, you are mean and grouchy, and you are fired from this bank forever." Of course, we can't.

A co-worked makes some asinine comment. We would LOVE to put him in his place. . ."You are too stupid to live. You are fired, good bye"." Of course, we can't.

We'd love to see our pompous-assed bosses humiliated and downgraded. (Of course, we can't do that.) We'd love to see that rich, haugthy wive-of-the-boss slapped down and tossed out of the party.

We can't do any of this, so we have to settle for watching someone else do it.


Good points.

IMO the frustration we feel with people during our daily lives is a direct consequence of the structure of american society (as outlined in my post - people are isolated, have very poor sense of community/neighborly spirit, tend toward objectifying/exploiting rather than personalizing/empathizing with others, etc).

The profound feelings of frustration and intolerance with other humans we experience are resulting from our consumer materialistic culture. They are not an ultimate cause.

If otherwise were true, humiliation and exploitation would have universal appeal in all societies. It does not. There must be something about american society which encourages this.

Again just my theory
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  #86   ^
Old Thu, Oct-21-04, 11:26
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
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Quote:
There is a whole pompous sort of attitude towards reality tv. The way that it used to be with just regular tv. You would talk about a television program with someone and before you could finish the sentence you would hear 'oh i dont watch television'. As if that put them on some sort of higher level. Gimme a break.


Angela, why is a negative reaction towards reality TV pompous? The way I see it, people react to such shows based on their personal morals and values regarding what is and is not "okay", even you. Maybe I'm giving people too much credit for actually thinking about what they are watching on TV, but there are a lot of shows that I don't allow my kids to watch above and beyond reality TV because I'm very aware of the power that the media holds over impressionable young minds. I don't think caring about what kinds of values the media is feeding my kids makes me pompous, just a concerned parent.
BTW, I don't have objections to most reality TV shows for moral reasons other than the humiliation aspect, I just see most of them as plain stupid. How is getting someone to eat road kill for money entertainment or redeemable in any way?
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  #87   ^
Old Thu, Oct-21-04, 11:38
irisda's Avatar
irisda irisda is offline
Busty McChacha
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I certainly would never suggest that you are pompous because there are shows you wont let your kids watch. I would put that more under the category of being a responsible parent.

The thing with the forum is that one conversation turns into a completely different topic. Your parenting skills or anyone else's really are truly not my concern.
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  #88   ^
Old Thu, Oct-21-04, 13:14
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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I think some people simply don't like to watch the worst in other people. I'm like that. I tend to like the reality shows that bring out the best in people, like Queer Eye and that Extreme Home makeover one. But watching people being treated horribly, fighting amongst themselves, lying, cheating whatever... I get enough of that sort of reality simply by watching the latest in politics on CNN or CNBC and if I want to really be horrified by the worst of human reality shows, although I'm not sure the word reality really applies, I could go watch Fox News.
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  #89   ^
Old Thu, Oct-21-04, 15:13
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irisda
I certainly would never suggest that you are pompous because there are shows you wont let your kids watch. I would put that more under the category of being a responsible parent.

The thing with the forum is that one conversation turns into a completely different topic. Your parenting skills or anyone else's really are truly not my concern.


Angela, my point wasn't about parenting skills although I used that as an example of why some people might find reality TV distasteful.
Shows like Extreme Home Makeover are one thing, but shows like Fear Factor are a different breed altogether. This one may be more in the middle.
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  #90   ^
Old Thu, Oct-21-04, 16:57
Angeline's Avatar
Angeline Angeline is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
I could go watch Fox News.
There is very little reality and a lot of fantasy on Fox News ....so I guess it compares very well with other reality shows

Yes I think you've hit the nail on the head. Some reality shows are good. The ones that aim to educate or inform. Queer Eye, What Not to Wear, ect... The ones we object to are the ones that are exploitative.

It's a fine line that goes somewhat like the old saying ..... we are not laughing at you we are laughing with you. When participants in a show are included in the joke that's fine. When THEY are the joke, it's not.
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