I can loose weight on just about any diet....the difference with LC is I'm much happier and feel better while I loose weight.

On LF I ate food I hated, just to fill up. I lost weight, but had to keep my calories under 1000 in order to do so. During the entire time I was hungry. I'd eat lunch, and often before I even finished I was looking for my next meal! And cravings? they were almost constant!

Yes, I miss potatoes, pasta, bread.....but I can live without it if it makes me feel like this!

http://nutrition.about.com/library/weekly/aa070201a.htm

An interesting article about what's been happening in Beijing after adopting a more "Western" type diet over the past 12-15 years.

Yes, but he also said apes became men. There's a big difference with the moth you mention. The moth didn't turn into a bird to survive better.

"Yes, but he also said apes became men. There's a big difference with the moth you mention. The moth didn't turn into a bird to survive better."

You sound like someone criticizing a LC diet because it doesn't include any vegetables - someone who obviously hasn't read the book. I didn't used to be an ape. I don't think any of us used to be apes.

Read the book before you assume what was stated in it.

pretty interesting. looks like it is easier to overfeed on fast foods than it is to overfeed on vegetables.

Great article Lisa! At least here it happened a bit more gradually. We got to this point over, what? 50 years?

I think they have a long way to go before this starts to abate! The stuff is addicting! And to have the government endorsing high carb! I did like the Food Guide Pagota! Ah....maybe they'll figure it out faster!

This is why I blame the government most. I firmly believe that if you want to eat what I consider crap, that's fine. If you want to sell it? manufacture it? got for it! That's what freedom, free will, and free enterprise is all about!

BUT when the government endorses something that turns out to be bad, that's one thing. But when they (I believe) knowingly continue to not only endorse, but try to cram down our throats that same thing when there is mounting evidence that it's not right!!!!!!!!!! Now that's when I get really ....ticked off!

Can you imagine if they had done this with cigarettes? True, they subsidise and still do....but they didn't try to "educate" the public about how "healthy" it is!

I firmly believe that people need to be given the tools to determine what is right for themselves, but I think it's better for universities and non-biased researchers. That is not the place of the government! They can fund research, as long as there's no influence in which way the results go!

No, actually, Charles Darwin never once said that man evolved from apes. Scientists convoluted his theories into the possibility man evolved from apes. Even if I didn't believe in creation, I'd still have a hard time swallowing that one, as if ape-kind managed to evolve that far, why are there still apes running around today? I do, however, know that there appears to be an earlier race of humans, and when they were on this earth I have no clue. There are many mysteries about this planet that even with our best guesses we can only surmise.
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I felt pretty much the same way, but I don't even miss the white stuff anymore. DH and I were talking this evening about how many foods he really didn't like that he absolutely loves now. He wasn't a nut eater, and now can't hardly live without them. He also didn't care for pork rinds but now loves them. We've also noticed that after making some of our own LC treats and cutting sweetener in the recipe in order to save money we're all developing a taste for much less sweet foods. Now talk about evolution and nutrition!

Yes, and it works great for most others here, also.

I don't mean to come across as rude, but this is a LC SUPPORT forum. If you don't support LC and don't agree with it, why do you continue to support this issue. I don't see any positive posts from you, so do you just come here to start debates?

Again, not trying to start another debate and not telling you not to be here, but just don't understand WHY you are here.

Cara,
I am here because I learn a lot here. It is the biggest, most active weight loss board I have come across.

I am not against LC. I believe it works. I have seen it work. I dont believe it is perfect though. That is where the problems start. I take it up with people who think that LC in its current form, with other commonly accepted theories, is gospel.

I salute the person who got on LC and lost weight. I dont salute the person who claims that carbs caused their weight gain. Too much of anything is bad, and too much carbs would obviously cause weight gain.

As to my sig, Saigo, I lifted it out of a business book. I want to see results, not facts. Afterall, for the longest time, it was a "fact" that the earth was flat .

Very glib.

I never mentioned your sig line. I couldn't care less about your sig line. Although I do think it suits you well.

What bothers me about you is how all over the place you are, Wildcard. On the one hand we can find you in threads where you're encouraging someone to eat lowcarb and wishing them success. Then on the other hand, no matter how many times someone tells you that they are not able to maintain a healthy weight when eating as the FDA Food Pyramid suggests they should, you'll tell them that it must be because they're off with their portion control. It's not the carbs it's because they must be "supersizing" their portions because they shouldn't be getting fat if they're following the Food Pyramid correctly. Well, you know what? That's insulting. In my mind it's tantamount to calling people liers.


What the heck does that even mean, Wildcard? What's an example of lowcarb gospel? You can't have it both ways. You can't say that cutting carbs works towards weighloss but that folks aren't allowed to say that carbs make them gain weight. That doesn't make any sense.

No one is saying that all carbs should be cut from the daily diet. No one is saying that if you cut all carbs from your diet you can eat as many calories worth of meat and fat a day as you wish and still lose weight. What is, where is, this fanatical lowcarb doctrine that has you so bothered?

You keep pushing that it's overeating that has people gaining weight. Issues with the FDA food pyramid aside, I don't think anyone is denying that overeating is a problem. But when people say that it was the overeating of carbs that made them gain weight, and they're going to cut back on them, you cry foul. What do you think made them overweight? Steaks? What food do you want people to cut back on then? Meat? But you've said that lowcarb works. So why is blaming carbs and cutting back on them wrong? You don't make sense, man.

Now back to the food pyramid. You keep insisting that it's completely a matter of portion control and not food types that are causing weight gain. So I've plugged in a recommended days worth of food, according to the pyramid. I've taken the lowest number of portions recommended. That is to say, the pryamid recommends 6-11 servings of bread, cereal, rice, etc., I plugged in 6 servings. Recommended number of servings of vegetables is 3-5, I plugged in 3. And so on.

Cracked wheat bread, 6 slices- 390 Calories (I could have exchanged some of these starch servings for white instead of wheat, or servings of white rice and it would have driven the calories way up. I kept it simple and higher in fiber than any number of starches would be.)
Yellow corn, one half cup serving (not much of a serving is it?) - 303 Calories
Green beans, one cup - 77 calories
Broccoli, raw, one cup - 25 calories (I could have put in carrots or a potato and driven the calories and carbs way up. But I didn't want you to think I was trying to pad this so I went with something really low on the GI)
Apple, medium size - 81 calories
Pear, medium size - 98 calories
Cheddar cheese, 1oz serving - 114 calories
Milk, lowfat, one cup serving - 119 calories (lowfat milk is high in carbs but the FDA and AHA love the stuff so I picked it over full fat milk)
Beef steak, 3oz serving, lean only eaten - 196 calories
Chicken breast, medium size, broiled, skin eaten - 359 calories

I'm not sure if you want to talk about carbs or calories when it comes to overeating, Wildcard. Both matter. But I'll stick with the more traditional talk of calories. That above FDA recommended daily diet, kept as low end as I could fairly make it, totals 1762 calories. Most traditional lowfat diets ask that people eat 1200-1500 calories a day.

This is what people have been trying to tell you. And you keep snapping back that they're overeating. Why are you refusing to believe what people are telling you about themselves?

The truth is that even when eating the smallest number of recommended portions suggested in the food pyramid, the day's calories get pushed over the top of what's traditionally recommended for weight loss. In fact it pushes the calories up to a number that many people will gain weight on. Not to mention it's such an unsatisfying menu. Who wants to eat six slices of plain wheat bread?

So now what? Over 1700 calories a day, even with daily excercise is going to make me, and I suspect a good many others, gain weight. Should we keep increasing the excercise until we reach a point where we'll be able to lose weight and still eat that number of calories? Or should we cut something from the menu? Should one of the only two high protein items be cut? The chicken breast would have to go to get back under 1500 calories. So you recommend only 3 ounces of meat a day? But that's below what the food pyramid recommends.

Speaking for myself, I think I'll cut out the foods that do me the least good and the most harm. I'll cut out starchy foods like wheat bread, pasta and rice. And I'll exchange the starchy high carb vegetables for healthier, high fiber, lower carb ones. And I'll exchange the higher sugar, high carb, fruits for super nutritious lowcarb ones. I think I'll eat a healthy, balanced, lowcarb diet. A diet that is helping me to not only lose weight but is also helping me to kick unhealthy food addictions. If, for you, that translates into me preaching some radical lowcarb gospel that's just too darned bad.

You have every right to go eat the way you want to eat. But you don't have a right, as far as I'm concerned, to keep telling people that the reason they're fat is ONLY because they have no self-control. It's an insulting way for you to keep trying to grab attention in this forum. Which, in my opinion, is what most of what you have to say is all about.

I'm sorry, but I don't think your being here is as much about learning, as you suggest. Because every time someone schools you in a thread you disappear and stop responding. I understand why you do it. Accepting what people have to say about how and why low carb works, or accepting advice on how to eat lowcarb in a healthy fashion, would undermine your attention getting efforts. It would be hard to rattle people's cages if you actually accepted and applied the advice that you've asked for. Or if you started to agree that the overeating of carbs causes weight gain. But anywho, I guess that's neither here nor there.

But I do have a thought. You seem to be someone who enjoys a challenge. Someone who'll experiment in the name of science? And you're a big guy too, Wildcard. Six foot five? Wowzer! And you're active too, right? Big active guy like you ought to be able to handle the high end number of servings on the food pyramid (assuming, as you do, that the food pyramid offers sound dietary advice). You should give that a real shot! I don't mean one wild night of hotdogs and eggs and the next night nothing but baked potatoes and sugary cereal. I mean really give the food pyramid a good try...

11 servings of bread and pasta
5 servings of vegetables (potatoes are good you say)
3 servings of fruit
3 servings of dairy
4 servings of meat, fish, poultry, or eggs

Eat like this for, let's say, every day for about six months? Let's see how your weight does. Keep track of your progress in your journal. I promise you that if you stay true to the food pyramid's recommendations and you say, at the end of six months, that you've gained a fair amount of weight I won't tell you that you must have been out of control with your portions. I don't think anyone here would tell you that. We know better.

Saigo, this is just what I would have said (had I been as elequent as you are and had enough time; which I'm not and I don't)...well said.

You should go to the Atkins.org website and give him a piece of your mind also....

bob

Just wanted to point out that lowfat milk has exactly the amount of carbs as whole milk. Only the fat and caloric content is different.

Saigo, That was a very impassioned and well reasoned post. On those grounds, I will acquiesce.

That said, please refer me to where I ever said that anyone should eat according to the food pyramid. You mistakenly lump me with the FDA, or ADA or whatever.

Furthermore, I check this board at least ten times per day. From the quick replies, I know that there are others who check just as or more often than I do. If I stopped posting, who would play devil's advocate and make the warzone interesting?

Finally, an interesting illustration happened at work today that might help make sense of this whole situation. I work the night shift at a motel and check out guests in the morning. This lady came in with her daughter. The lady was quite chubby and her daughter quite skinny. Daughter had a glass of juice and was done. Lady had :two honey buns (230 calories each), one sausage and egg biscuit (290? calories) and one glass of juice. Now, is she chubby because she eats too many calories, or because she eats processed foods? That is the million dollar question.

As I see it, there is no separating processed foods and high calorie count, so we will never know.

You said, and I quote:

Implying, if I'm not mistaken, that if the overweight population, here in America, would stop supersizing our food pyramid guideline portions we'd remain slim. Isn't that what you've said here?

You're obviously completely wrong, considering there are great numbers of people who will gain weight when eating all the foods that the pyramid considers to be our daily requirements for a healthy and balanced diet. Even if the servings are kept at the pyramid's lowest suggested number many will gain weight.



I think you're making this more mysterious than it needs to be, Wildcard. I can't speak for that woman. But if I were to give her any advice on what she should have left off the menu if she wanted to lose weight it would have been the honeybuns and the biscuit, both full of carbs and empty calories. And I would have told her to add another egg. Perhaps a small steak. And maybe a few strawberries.

What would you have told her to do? Not eat the egg and stay under 1500 calories a day worth of honeybuns?


Knock yourself out. But call it like it is. You're not looking for information on how to best eat a healthy lowcarb diet. You're looking for fireworks in the lowcarb warzone.

Saigo. I don't think anybody else could have said it any better. Kudos to you!!!!!

Thank you for the extremely interesting and informative reply!!!!! AND..you got Wildcard to pretty much state he's only here to argue and add fuel to the fire.

Cara