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  #1   ^
Old Thu, May-06-04, 12:54
jagbender's Avatar
jagbender jagbender is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,829
 
Plan: Atkins /NHE/CKD
Stats: 289/219/200 Male 5' 8"
BF:41%/20%/18%
Progress: 79%
Location: West Michigan
Default Making The Case to Count Sugar Alcohols

Making the Case to Count Sugar Alcohols

The Atkins Diet has been with us since the 1970's. Over the years many changes have come along - more vegetables, more salads, changes to artificial sweetener options, limiting caffeine, etc. - all for the better.

One major change appears to be for the worse...that is the introduction of sugar alcohols as "acceptable" and "deductible" from total carbs for carbohydrate intake during Induction.

In the article "To Count or Not to Count?" we offer a few different ways you may want to count these polyols. However, during Induction on Atkins, not using these products and/or counting them completely minus only the fiber they contain is what we recommend for your greatest potential for losing weight during your first two weeks.

It is during your first two weeks that you'll measure your capacity to lose weight. Including polyols (sugar alcohols, glycerin, etc.) may reduce your losses significantly (or stall your efforts completely) so you will not have an accurate measure of your "resistance" to weight loss. Without knowing it - because you have included polyols in your daily eating - you may lose less than you could if you didn't eat any of these products and may even think - due to poor results - that you're more resistant than you really are to losing weight.

What prompted Atkins' Nutritionals to include polyols where they once forbid them?

For one thing, by 2002, Atkins had a growing line of products - as did a number of manufacturers in the market using sugar alcohols and glycerin. Within 2002 there was also the research specifically into Atkins and weight-loss with results to be released in the summer - results Atkins and others had to know was going to be positive.....imagine the potential of these products with more people paying attention to low-carb eating and finally buying-in to the idea that limiting sugars/starches results in weight-loss?

In the 1998 version of the book, Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution, it states:
"Sweeteners such as sorbitol, mannitol and other hexitols (sugar alcohols) are not allowed, nor are any natural sweeteners ending in the letters -ose, such as maltose, fructose, etc."

Where in the 2002 version this was eliminated and the recommendation now read: ..."Although it is important that you eat primarily unprocessed foods, some controlled carb food products can come in handy when you are unable to find appropriate food, can’t take time for a meal or need a quick snack. More and more companies are creating healthy food products that can be eaten during the Induction phase of Atkins."

Where prior to 2002 Atkins' specifically restricted any use by those on Induction of these ingredients - they were now allowed in the 2002 revision.....there was no new science to show properties of the ingredients to suggest they should be dismissed as having a carb value to count. The only real change going on was that Atkins Nutritionals and other companies (like EAS, Think Thin, etc.) were all growing their lines of controlled-carb products.

This at the same time the FDA was clamping down on the labeling practice that was growing within the controlled-carb food industry - that is they were not even listing any carbs from sugar alcohol ingredients like maltitol or glycerin - the FDA clamped down and mandated the carbs must be included in the label since they are in there!

With the mandated requirement that these companies had to include the carbs for glycerin & sugar alcohols - so too came the new explanation as to why they don't count - that one was allowed to deduct them because they did not impact blood sugar levels.

But the logic used to dismiss the carbs doesn't hold up.....we're told these ingredients don't impact blood sugar significantly -- so what? Neither do the carbs in green vegetables, nuts, seeds, cantaloupe, cherries, etc......the carbs from all of these foods are counted so why aren't the carbs in these products counted? Do they have a magical property about them, like no calories? No. Do they pass through the body like fiber? No. Do they not get used for energy? No. Do they not turn into some form of glucose? No.

Impact on blood sugar is NOT how we decide to count or not count a carb! Low impact on blood sugar is what low glycemic-index and low glycemic-load choices do - and they are still counted. Low-carb eating revolves around making your best choices from those things that are low glycemic-index and low glycemic-load -- but the carbs still count!

Overall these products are "controlled-carb" products - that is they offer a unique taste without impacting blood sugar (in most people) -- but they have carbs in them -- and the manufacturers have created a smokescreen to try to convince us that they don't count, even though other low-carb items must be counted!

If a carb is metabolized, it needs to be counted - period.

There is no unique property to a sugar alcohol or to glycerin that makes it indigestible or not metabolized.....the body doesn't dismiss it, why should we when we're counting carbs?

Fiber isn't metabolized - not only does it not impact blood sugar, it also isn't digested by the body - it doesn't count.

Can the same be said for sugar alcohols or glycerin? NO.....both are metabolized in the body - they may not impact blood sugar, but they are metabolized - you cannot exclude the carbs in there because they are in there and they do get metabolized.

Many of the protein & candy bars out there have upwards of 20g of carbs when you include the sugar alcohols or glycerin - typically 200-240 calories also. They also typically have 1g to 2g of fiber - leaving upwards of 18g of carbs that you're told to dismiss.....for convenience? for a meal replacement? because it doesn't impact blood sugar? Does this make sense to you when you really think about it?????

If you chose instead to have a 1/2 cup of cantaloupe, wouldn't you count the 6g net carbs it has? Why? They're there! They aren't going to send your blood sugars spiraling up, but you count them because they're there!

The choice about counting the carbs that are in these products is still your choice - but forewarned is forewarned!
http://countcarbs.com/advice/making_the_case.htm

Jagbendr

Last edited by jagbender : Thu, May-06-04 at 13:22.
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, May-06-04, 13:00
tcastro's Avatar
tcastro tcastro is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 763
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 282.6/273.1/225 Male 6' 3"
BF:34/33/17%
Progress: 16%
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Default

I don't think Atkins meant for anyone to have sugar alcohols as a regular part of the diet.

If you're really dying for something sweet, then its ok, because it will prevent you from having normal sugar.

I've only had 2 LC products with sugar alcohol since I started the diet in February.
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  #3   ^
Old Thu, May-06-04, 13:05
jagbender's Avatar
jagbender jagbender is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,829
 
Plan: Atkins /NHE/CKD
Stats: 289/219/200 Male 5' 8"
BF:41%/20%/18%
Progress: 79%
Location: West Michigan
Default

Yea, I think you're right about an everyday thing. But isn't it interesting how they changed their perspective when there is $ to be make selling those products.
That is just MY opinion.
Jag
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, May-07-04, 09:52
maghdi's Avatar
maghdi maghdi is offline
New Member
Posts: 6
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 305/243/215 Male 71 inches
BF:
Progress: 69%
Location: ottawa, canada
Default

you also have to remember that the change came out after he had relinquished business control of the atkins products. It would not make good sense for him to say the products are not good for you and then have 18 grams of glyucerin in an atkins bar.
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, May-07-04, 12:45
kay3osu's Avatar
kay3osu kay3osu is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 889
 
Plan: lower carb
Stats: 138/115/115 Female 64 inches
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

a study was done at ohio state university on the sufar alcohols. they found that they raised BS 75 % as much as regular sugar!!! wow, i think that's a lot!
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, May-07-04, 19:57
elijaeger's Avatar
elijaeger elijaeger is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 483
 
Plan: TKD - semi low carb
Stats: 260/238/210 Male 76
BF:??%/28%/15%
Progress: 44%
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

I've heard that the caloric count is about half that of a regular carb, so about 2 calories per gram. I had not heard about the 75% though.

Last edited by elijaeger : Sat, May-08-04 at 11:30. Reason: meant gram, not pound
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, May-08-04, 04:10
lasert's Avatar
lasert lasert is offline
Renaissance Man
Posts: 640
 
Plan: Dr. Atkins
Stats: 298/197.5/185 Male 66 inches
BF:26.08
Progress: 89%
Location: Windsor, Ct.
Default nicely written piece

and the conclusion is inescapable. It was the almighty dollar at work that created the change in what was allowable on the diet............just as I posted a number of months ago when I was getting the hang of doing the diet and wondering how the two conflicting messages came about.
I bought 4 Atkins bars (the ones with Net Carbs prominently on the front of the package) to use in case of emergencies and they remain in my car's glove compartment to this day. Haven't had an emergencies where I was traveling and couldn't find something suitable to eat.
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  #8   ^
Old Sun, May-09-04, 11:31
elijaeger's Avatar
elijaeger elijaeger is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 483
 
Plan: TKD - semi low carb
Stats: 260/238/210 Male 76
BF:??%/28%/15%
Progress: 44%
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

So the question in my mind is: better to cheat with real sugar or sugar alcohol? One will adversely affect blood sugar, one does who knows what to your body? Seems like the sugar alcohol is the lesser of 2 evils for the short term. Long term we don't know the affect.
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  #9   ^
Old Mon, May-10-04, 09:46
jagbender's Avatar
jagbender jagbender is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,829
 
Plan: Atkins /NHE/CKD
Stats: 289/219/200 Male 5' 8"
BF:41%/20%/18%
Progress: 79%
Location: West Michigan
Default

If you cheat you only cheat the one that is most important.
YOU.
Why cheat?
If you need something sweet eat something LC not real sugar.
If you eat enough sugar it will defininatly kick you out of Ketosis. Then it will take you 48 hours to get back in ketosis.
Some people can handle the polyols (sugar alcohols) without too much problem. If you stall look hard at polyols.
jag
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  #10   ^
Old Mon, May-10-04, 09:53
rpavich's Avatar
rpavich rpavich is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 735
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 282/262/205 Male 6' 1
BF:waaay tooo much
Progress: 26%
Location: West Virginia
Default VERY interesting!

I can see the point here...I never thought about it in this way...

I've been losing and I have a carb bar almost every day....but now; I'm going to rethink that...

Thanks for a consise answer, much appreciated.

bob
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, May-11-04, 20:13
*soonslim*'s Avatar
*soonslim* *soonslim* is offline
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Posts: 452
 
Plan: My Own Thang....
Stats: 190/190/160 Female 5ft 5in
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Miami
Default

keep up good work
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, May-11-04, 21:59
ItsTheWooo's Avatar
ItsTheWooo ItsTheWooo is offline
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Posts: 4,815
 
Plan: My Own
Stats: 280/118/117.5 Female 5ft 5.25 in
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

EXCELLENT post.

I am convinced that the proper way to count a sugar alcohol is to multiply the percentage of absorbable energy it contains by total carb count. This is because absorbability = caloric/energy contents = amount of sugar that individual food will bestow upon your body.

For example, maltitol is 75% absorbed. That means 1 gram of maltitol has 3 calories, not 4. So, 20 grams of maltitol are the equivilant of 15 carbs. It really is imaterial that these carbs don't spike blood sugar as readily as something like a corn syrup or sucrose would. Sure, that makes them more desirable than 15 grams of a high glycemic bread or something, but 15 grams of sugar is still 15 grams of sugar and must be counted.

I don't think that sugar alcohols are pointless though. They are a good choice for caloric sweetners... just don't buy into the "net carbs" line. The bars contain more sugar than that implies.

Besides, it is really maltitol and the like which are the problem. Erythritol and xylitol are almost completely energy free and therefore have an extremely minimal impact on blood sugar.

Last edited by ItsTheWooo : Tue, May-11-04 at 22:05.
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  #13   ^
Old Wed, May-12-04, 18:00
MsTwacky's Avatar
MsTwacky MsTwacky is offline
WONJ#3
Posts: 7,576
 
Plan: 12 steps
Stats: 238/210/145 Female 5'6
BF:
Progress: 30%
Location: Portland, OR
Default

Great post!!!!

Now I can look back and see where I failed before. Always trying to eat that frankenfood that they have out.
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  #14   ^
Old Fri, May-14-04, 11:15
selphydeg's Avatar
selphydeg selphydeg is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 550
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 125/106/100 Female 5 ft 2 in
BF:
Progress: 76%
Default

Thanks, could be the reason why I am not loosing any weight. I endulge in too much low carb ice cream.
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  #15   ^
Old Fri, May-14-04, 11:30
icefire03 icefire03 is offline
New Member
Posts: 3
 
Plan: Atkins (Induction)
Stats: 176/166/150 Male 5'11"
BF:
Progress: 38%
Thumbs up You're completely right...

I found this out the hard way! The first time I tried Atkins induction (four years ago), I didn't know about the "low-net-carb" Frankenfoods and instead just ate natural foods like meat, eggs, and salad vegetables. I lost weight effortlessly and my cravings for food went down to zero.

The second time I tried induction (two years ago), I didn't lose at all! I was eating 2 Atkins Advantage bars a day, and I believed the "net-carbs" lie, but really I was dumping 40g of carbs into my system each day, and undermining the entire point of induction. No wonder I never got off the ground.

I started Atkins again 3 weeks ago, and wasn't losing anything yet again. Then I cut out all the sugar alcohols (no more Atkins bars or drinks), and the weight is coming off like it did during that wonderful experience four years ago.

If you can eat the bars and shakes and whatnot, and still lose weight, you are lucky. But if it tastes too good to be true, it probably is!
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