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  #46   ^
Old Sun, May-09-04, 23:55
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
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Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
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Of course! Take your whey after lifting! Just not after cardio, IMO.

While I'm spouting my opinion, why running so much? It's catabolic to muscle tissue. If it's fatburning you want, concentrate on your diet and your lifting. How about lifting 4 days a week, and cardio 2 days a week, with one day off?

And for the cardio, have you looked into doing some HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)? Burns fat like the BOMB, doesn't take as long, and not NEARLY as catabolic to muscle tissue.
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  #47   ^
Old Mon, May-10-04, 00:46
dtadpole's Avatar
dtadpole dtadpole is offline
New Member
Posts: 16
 
Plan: Now All around healthy
Stats: 195/179/165 Male 74
BF:
Progress: 53%
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Well the running part was because I would like to run a 10k or maybee 26.2 one of these days but I just went and weighed myself on our scales and was ~ 186 Only dropped 1lb in 1 1/2 weeks. AAAHHHH! I will take the reccomendation 4days lift 2 cardio/run. So I need to start loosing weight a little faster! About the HIIT would it be ok to do maybee a slow walk to start then jog to get my heart rate up then walk again to slow it down, then over and over. Is that basically what HIIT is, Heart rate up, then down, then up then down. To burn more fat quickly? thanks for the help!
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  #48   ^
Old Mon, May-10-04, 01:23
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
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True HIIT is actually quite unpleasant - but it's over with FAST.

Research it on google. Here's a link: http://www.musclemedia.com/training/hiit.asp

I'm not doing it right now, but when I do, I either RUN (not jog, RUN) a block, walk/jog two blocks, and repeat this 4 times, or I RUN 30 seconds and walk/jog 90 seconds, and repeat 4 times.

Like I said - if you do it properly, you'll feel like your gonna DIE, but it's done with fast.

I'm sure there are others here who know more about it. You can do it cycling, eliptical trainer, stepper, any of these. You can even do it skipping.

But trust me on the lifting. And hit the weights HARD.
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  #49   ^
Old Mon, May-10-04, 05:29
doogieb's Avatar
doogieb doogieb is offline
Modified :)
Posts: 1,387
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 242/223/175 Male 170cm
BF:
Progress: 28%
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Built
Of course! Take your whey after lifting! Just not after cardio, IMO.


Hi Built..... I'm currently taking whey after both lifting and HIIT. (although I've read suggestions of adding dextrose to it after lifting to create insulin spike that apparently doesn't really knock you out of keto..... need to research that more ) - I'm just about to order casein for a before bed protein shake (currently using cottage cheese) - do you think that would be more suitable after HIIT?

Cheers
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  #50   ^
Old Mon, May-10-04, 07:19
legwarmers's Avatar
legwarmers legwarmers is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 353
 
Plan: NHE
Stats: 135/133/140 Female 64"
BF:15%
Progress: -40%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doogieb
Hi Built..... I'm currently taking whey after both lifting and HIIT. (although I've read suggestions of adding dextrose to it after lifting to create insulin spike that apparently doesn't really knock you out of keto..... need to research that more ) - I'm just about to order casein for a before bed protein shake (currently using cottage cheese) - do you think that would be more suitable after HIIT?

Cheers


cottage cheese is actually too carby but casein is the way to go...

dextrose is one thing you CAN do but for low carbers it makes no sense at all to take it and waste your carb count on it.
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  #51   ^
Old Mon, May-10-04, 13:24
Chipperoo's Avatar
Chipperoo Chipperoo is offline
Southern Gentleman
Posts: 741
 
Plan: CKD
Stats: 272/219/210 Male 70.5 inches
BF:30+/20-21/14-15
Progress: 85%
Location: NW Georgia (Near Atlanta)
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Sorry, legwarmers, but when I take dextrose DIRECTLY after lifting, it does not go toward my carb count at all. And it makes ALL the sense in the world for me! It replenishes the glycogen in my muscles "somewhat" and but mostly causes a small insulin spike which is WANTED in this case to help get the protein into the muscle (and the creatine I take) FAST. If the correct amount is taken ( I myself us 24 grams), it will only kick you out of ketosis for a very short time (I'm back in within the hour). The benefit it gives to keep muscle from breaking down and helping build far, far outweighs being kicked out of ketosis for such a short time!
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  #52   ^
Old Mon, May-10-04, 13:41
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
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That's very cool. I did not know that.
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  #53   ^
Old Mon, May-10-04, 13:43
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doogieb
Hi Built..... I'm currently taking whey after both lifting and HIIT. (although I've read suggestions of adding dextrose to it after lifting to create insulin spike that apparently doesn't really knock you out of keto..... need to research that more ) - I'm just about to order casein for a before bed protein shake (currently using cottage cheese) - do you think that would be more suitable after HIIT?

Cheers

That's a damned good question. I'm tempted to say neither, just eat real food, but there could be an argument for whey. I know that some BBs take whey after HIIT. I defer to the greater Gods here...

BUMP!
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  #54   ^
Old Mon, May-10-04, 14:26
Chipperoo's Avatar
Chipperoo Chipperoo is offline
Southern Gentleman
Posts: 741
 
Plan: CKD
Stats: 272/219/210 Male 70.5 inches
BF:30+/20-21/14-15
Progress: 85%
Location: NW Georgia (Near Atlanta)
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Since HIIT is anerobic and catabolic, there is a big arugment for whey after. As far as my post above, many even add carbs (dextrose, maltodextrin) because, once again, HIIT is anerobic and catabolic as compared to moderate cardio, which is not. Not as much dex as after a heavy lifting session, though. I personally always take plain whey (1 scoop) after cardio and HIIT, and about half a scoop BEFORE with added fat to prevent muscle loss.
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  #55   ^
Old Mon, May-10-04, 14:59
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
Default

I know it's catabolic and anaerobic, but it's not STRONGLY catabolic like lifting.

My temptation is to stay away from pwo whey for this one until you are fairly lean and muscular.

I would still say DEFINITELY keep the PWO whey for post-lifting, though.

It might be one of those muscle mass/ testosterone things. I find whey just knocks me out of ketosis too easily. Maybe if I took a much smaller amount than I'm taking?

I'll keep it under advisement. Thanks Chip.
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  #56   ^
Old Mon, May-10-04, 16:56
Trainerdan's Avatar
Trainerdan Trainerdan is offline
Posts: 2,518
 
Plan: Zone
Stats: 255/242/230 Male 75 inches (6'3")
BF:21%/15%/8%
Progress: 52%
Location: Philly
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I strongly recommend a whey isolate shake or at least glutamine/BCAA's after HIIT.

And, yes, a casein shake before bed is a good idea to ward off any nocturnal catabolism.
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  #57   ^
Old Mon, May-10-04, 17:02
Built's Avatar
Built Built is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 3,661
 
Plan: Metabolic Surge
Stats: 170/139/? Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Canada's Wet Coast
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainerdan
I strongly recommend a whey isolate shake or at least glutamine/BCAA's after HIIT.

And, yes, a casein shake before bed is a good idea to ward off any nocturnal catabolism.


Thanks Dan. I'm still on the fence about the whey shake after HIIT (for me, anyway), but I'm with you 100% on the glutamine - I take 5g post ANY activity.

Now, the BCAAs - could I trouble you to say a bit more about them? I've been wondering what they do and when to take them, and how much.
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  #58   ^
Old Tue, May-11-04, 03:01
dtadpole's Avatar
dtadpole dtadpole is offline
New Member
Posts: 16
 
Plan: Now All around healthy
Stats: 195/179/165 Male 74
BF:
Progress: 53%
Default

Trainerdan/Built,

Also I was wandering about mealreplacements? I just started to do a profile on fitday.com and found that I am getting way lower calorie intake than I should be getting. I think I done this right check me: (lose body fat increase muscle tone) 10 X 186(Lbs.) = 1860. My intake yesterday was only 992 calories. I have been ~ a steady 186/7 for the past week and a 1/2. I think I am stalled, am I? Also would mealplex or Mega pro mealreplacements from GNC work for one meal a day? I have a pretty busy lifestyle and not to much time to eat. I also am wanting to stay with the low carb(20g) a day. Thanks so much for your help!
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  #59   ^
Old Tue, May-11-04, 05:21
Trainerdan's Avatar
Trainerdan Trainerdan is offline
Posts: 2,518
 
Plan: Zone
Stats: 255/242/230 Male 75 inches (6'3")
BF:21%/15%/8%
Progress: 52%
Location: Philly
Default BCAA = Branched Chain Amino Acid

There are 4 primary benefits associated with the use of BCAA’s, namely; expedites recovery, increases energy production, promotes muscle gain, and helps burn body fat.

Commonly, you will see that moany of the magazines suggest that bodybuilders take between 3 to 6 grams of BCAA per day and split it into 3 separate dosages.

I was surprised at that recommendation and that their responses left out so much relevant data.

BCAA's need to be taken at specific times to address the needs of bodybuilders, MOST important being prior to and during, and after training.

Training is a very stressful activity which triggers a number of events potentially devastating to individuals wanting to gain a benefit from training which, of course, is everyone.

You see, the onset of catabolism takes place when glutamine serum levels fall below a certain threshold and the other is when, during training, glycogen levels are depleted.

When taking branched-chain amino acids before and during training you effectively fortify glycogen levels which enables you to attenuate or otherwise delay the onset of a catabolic environment.

As far as dosage is concerned, many of the popular strength training coaches that focus on nutrition and supplementation recommend dosages in the range of 20 grams or higher. I personally feel that you can’t take too much but 20 grams of branched-chain amino acids is by no means excessive.

Remember this: it is best to take more of what you need during the time it matters most. Before, during, and after training are critical times - as are first thing in the morning and right before bed.

Proper BCAA supplementation could be what you need to take your physique to the next level if you find yourself stuck or "stalled".
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  #60   ^
Old Tue, May-11-04, 07:07
surfer376's Avatar
surfer376 surfer376 is offline
Lovin' The GI Diet!
Posts: 3,839
 
Plan: YOU: On A Diet
Stats: 250.0/231.0/160 Female 65"
BF:
Progress: 21%
Location: Cleveland , Ohio
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Just my 2 cents dtadpole
I take mealplex but it only has 180 cal. but 17 grams carbs..don't think that would work for you if you wanna stay under 20 carbs a day...not much room left for any other carbs in the day. If you wanna up your calories try some safflower oil on a salad. I sneak it in my oatmeal. There are lot's of protien drinks(ready made) at GNC. Low carb would be your best choice. EAS make a good low carb ready made.Hope this helps!
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