I'm just glad that I have the book! Oddly enough, every time I read it, I notice something new. It's like reading it for the first time again! I think that on the first read-though most people just skip to the food list and the "how to." When you've done Atkins for awhile and go back to the book, it looks different somehow.

Just lastnight I was re-reading Induction. I must have read it at least 3 times if not more, but this time I noticed that in the sample week of menus Dr. A includes shakes for snacks and zucchini nut bread as a breakfast option! How did I miss that the first time! Go figure!

I think that because every body is different, so must the diet be different as well. I think that this WOE is individual - what works for some won't work for others. It is a lesson in listening to you body and figuring out what it needs.

Just my $.02.

IMHO, modification is fine but, if you have never read the real rules of DANDR, how do you know if you are modifying or not? Here's an example of my "tweaking" the program to my benefit. In all the time that I have been LC'ing, I have yet to give up caffeine. As a result, I have never registered in ketosis on the sticks. This makes me doubtful about whether I am maximizing the weight loss, especially when you read about everyone who is in deep purple. Having been in denial (and desparely clinging to a crutch) all this time has introduced doubts in my mind about whether I am doing this right. I just re-read the book and I am kicking caffeine to remove the doubts.

If I was a newbie, having never read the book and had never seen results while on the plan, I may have gotten discouraged and given up.

Another thing...I think the Atkins having so many "frankenfoods" themselves sends some mixed signals. I think people see Atkins products and say to themselves it must be okay. I cannot eat any of them. They make me stall big time.

Add another $.02.

Danakins

Hear, hear!

Years and years ago, before the Web, before browsers and before the Internet was big, I ran a low carb site. Probably one of the first on the Internet. It was just a mailing list and recipe archive on an FTP server. Anyway, I remember my frustrations with how the conversations kind of devolved into a religious war after a time. I suppose it is inevitable, people being people. And I was also kind of dismayed by the level of gullibility of people.

As a little test of that gullibility and how it would spread on a mailing list I once stated that, if you pinch the loose skin on your knuckle and it stays puckered up for more than a few seconds then it means you're losing weight.

Oh boy! Everyone started pinching their knuckleskin and reporting back, very excited! The very next day I confessed my deception, but that rumour persisted and grew and I had to repeatedly set people straight that I was just having a joke on them. That was back before browsers and before the Internet became so entirely huge like it is now. So nowadays you can see how very easy it would be to start a rumour that could take on a life of its own, like the Aspartame hoax did.

Quotes like this remind me again and again the parallel with religion: "the book," various prophets (Atkins, the Eades, Barry Sears, etc.), revelations, etc. We even speak of followers of CKD, Somerzizing, Atkins, etc.

DANDR is a fundamental prescription that one can follow as if it were inerrant word (like the religious fundamentalists). Or, you can adapt it and mold it to fit your life (coffee on Induction, wine, use of sugar alcohols, leptin refeeds, etc etc.) There is not really one true way (except for those who believe that there is one true way).

There is even a sect that believes that the original 1972 book is a better guide than the new testament in DANDR.

Does this make them schismatics? j/k

I am loving this discussion. Thank you for all of the comments, everyone!

what's the asparteme hoax?

I def agree that Atkins can be modified to best suite everyone's needs-- i mean, all sorts of diff people do atkins: people with a lot of weight to loose, a little weight to loose, or even people who want to gain weight! That's the beauty of atkins--it's so effective no matter what your goal and really teaches you how to eat, how to be healthier. Some aspects shouldn't be modified though--like including exercise and avoiding trans-fats

The pinching your knuckle thing is really funny! According to that, I'm not losing weight, as the skin immediately snaps right back Kinda reminds me of the Oil of Oregano thread on here - somebody credits their weightloss to this supplement and all of a sudden the thread is 25+ pages long and there's a shortage of ooo. I even fell for it, bought it, and managed to GAIN 5 lbs in the week I took it (got 2 of the 5 off in the 1 day since I stopped taking it). If it works for some, it may not work for all is the lesson I learned with that one!

Anyway, I don't think there's anything wrong with tweaking, but I agree with one of the above posters who said that if you're reading in the forum you'll come across so much tweaking and then start to wonder if that's something you need to try and then end up being afraid to eat anything other than meat, fat and veggies (no cheese, no caffeine, no a.s., no lc products, etc. etc.). Some may even quit thinking it's too complicated, etc.

Someone above made a good point about the weight loss examples in Atkins' book being taken from the patients he saw in his practice. Presumably he was modifying their diets and supplements from visit to visit to enhance their success. The rest of us have to putz around on our own! There was an article in last month's O magazine about a woman who was one of Atkins' last patients. When she first went to him he put her on a diet that was stricter than induction and for several months. DANDR (and his other books) were presumably written in an effort to come up with something generic that the average person might realistically be able to tolerate without ongoing professional support. It's likely that some of his patients often followed fairly restricted regimes (no dairy, no nuts, no yeast supporters etc.) in order to achieve the results in the time frames he talks about.

That's interesting, Quest! I agree that if there's ongoing support from the creator of the plan, a person would logically follow the plan better and lose weight better, too.

I've done a serious overhaul of my eating, starting yesterday and I've cut out all LC products and treats and I even cut out caffeine for the first time (I drank a mug of coffee every day on Induction even). I was feeling really out of control and wanted the treats every day, and was eating them and I stalled. So, no more lc tortillas, bread, bagels, chips, sf chocolate...it was REALLY hard yesterday!!! I've decided to go ahead and add back in da vinci syrups because they're sweetened with Splenda which Dr. A. approves of even in Induction, but that's it. I'll see how this goes for me....

Take care!
Nicole

Nikkil, you'll be happy to know that means you are not dehydrated. That skin test if a classic, simple test that doctors often do to test for dehydration in patients. I suspect it also means that you are young and healthy.

I also think that it's important to keep in mind that most of us here are not scientific experts in the field of weight loss.....and to be able to recognize that personal affidavits of success do not necessarily mean that whatever one person finds helpful will work for someone else.

And it is tempting, as well as confusing, to read in this forum and start compiling a mental list of things to buy on the next trip to the store. Or ways to change something I'm doing/not doing. Grasping at straws, a lot of the time.

Loved the urban legend story! My favorite one here that keeps popping up is the idea of "starvation" mode keeping a person from losing weight over a long period of time. I do think the body may adjust to different imput and output, but come on, realistically, people do lose weight when they are really starving.

2 more cents into the kitty,

Kay

I think this is correct. A friend of mine has a friend who was a patient of Dr. Atkins. Dr. Atkins closely tailored this guy's supplements and his list of allowed foods to his specific metabolism. Otherwise, what would have been the point of going to him instead of just reading the book? Those of us who aren't lucky enough to work directly with Dr. Atkins needs to do this for ourselves.

While I basically follow Atkins, the important thing is to eat low carb. Ergo, The best thing to do for the first several months (at least) is to pick a low carb plan and stick to it, Atkins, protein power, or whatever. Low fat is still the prevailing weight loss religion, and those who try to wing low carb without study and experience, are very likely to make bad choices. Atkins is adaptable and ajustable, just be sure you know what you are doing first. Nyah Levi

Very Interesting Thread!
All this makes me want to ask....what is modifiable and what is sacred? What aspect of this WOE are most critical to maintain and what areas do you feel are flexible?
For example I would say sugar is definitely out but have been known on a rare occasion to eat a potatoe (gasp!).
What are the key fundamental principles that make this way of eating work?
Is it that lower carbs and higher protein allow us to feel more satieted and removes cravings allowing us to maintain our lower calories levels?

It seems to run in cycles. Now the miracle cure is Oil of Oregano, last month it was "refeeds"...before that, fat fast, then coconut oil....starch blockers seem to pop up from time to time...

To me, what it boils down to is there is NO "magic pill". It seems the closer a person stays to their chosen plan as written, the fewer problems they have, IMHO.

Sometimes you DO have to modify the plan to keep losing, but in the DANDR, he pretty much has an answer for most problems. Whether or not a person is willing to make the sacrifice and give up certain foods (like the anti-yeast plan calling for cutting cheese, vinegar, etc.) or try to find an easier way around it is where I see a lot of people stuck. I've been there myself!

That's an excellent question, Arnie!

I constantly struggle with this: how come people can lose weight on low fat/high carb and don't seem to have to tweak stuff (just keep cals and fat low ) yet low-carbers have to tweak, eliminate things a lot more??? I just don't get that part. I would think that the benefit of lcing is that with the combination of fat and protein fills you up more quickly and keeps you satisfied longer so you end up eating less calories, so you should lose weight regardless of WHAT you're eating (this is based on the calorie is a calorie is a calorie theory). I know this is heresy to some people and I don't want to get anybody upset---this is a legitimate thinking process that I've had since Day 1. I remember losing weight on low cal/high carb diets, just felt hungry all the time so in a perfect world I'm not hungry because I'm eating lots of fat and protein but my cals are the same as the lf/hc, a bit more because of the fat-burning instead of carb-burning....does this make sense and can anybody shed some light on the reason??

Nicole