The irony for me is that I'm not eating any more meat now than I ever did. I do eat more eggs, and more cheese, but drink less milk. The biggest change is more green veggies instead of potatoes and bread. I'm sure what these people are angry at is the media misrepresentation of Atkins more than the actual diet. And as etoiles and Paleoanth point out, many LC'ers are vegetarians themselves.

Gotbeer, one point: herbivores do live in cold climates, such as reindeer, caribou, rabbits, etc. Otherwise there wouldn't be any food for the carnivores...

I was thinking more of those who live in even more forbiding regions where even the herbivores don't go.

You've got a point, Kestrel, but many of the herbivores in cold climates starve during the winter months when herbaceous food becomes scarce. A boon for the carnivores and scavengers, but not so good for the herbivores other than as a natural population control (you can't have a larger herd than there is food to support it).

The above list is simplistic and flawed. If you really want to sink your teeth into this issue (har har), try reading this page: http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t...p-anat-1a.shtml

P.S.: Walk with those seeking truth. Run from those who think they have found it.

Starvation happens to both of them; if the caribou are depleted, wolves are bound to suffer. I'd think wolves are more likely to be hunting the caribou, reindeer, while polar bears are more likely to be hunting the seals, etc.

In any case polar bears are carnivores hunting carnivores, as are penguins. So I'll agree with carnivores being found at the extreme edges of cold, assuming we're past the edge of plant growth.

Anyway, just imagine the percentage of carnivores to herbivores in the ocean... Especially down deep... Everything becomes food at some point.

Agreed that starvation happens to carnivore and herbivore alike in the wild, but it's pretty rare for an entire herd to starve to death and the carnivores are not above scavanging an easy meal from a downed elk or caribou (in other words...easy pickins' for the carnivores) and are much less likely to starve for just that reason.
Hmmm...that reminds me...I have some frozen venison that needs to be eaten soon.

And the meat from the starved dead would be naturally refrigerated - great eating for months!

Thanks for that link, Klodomir, very enlightening. Especially about the B12 deficiences from lack of animal food in the diet.
Of course, one of the signs of B12 deficiency are these mental symptoms:

Confusion or change in mental status in severe or advanced cases. This is sometimes confused with dementia. More importantly, even a moderate deficiency of this important vitamin and its counterpart, folic acid, may ultimate contribute to the onset of Alzheimers disease or other related dementias.

http://www.aging-parents-and-elder-...Deficiency.html

Damn you, Klodomir! I had PLANS this weekend. Now, I have to study all that annoying evidence that vegetarians are screwed up. Yikes! My girlfriends CJ and Melodie are SO going to kick my a$$.

Very interesting stuff Klodomir, I'll be spending the entire afternoon digesting (he!he!) all that.
What I don't understand in the whole debate is that why indeed does it matter how we were originally made or what our physical attributes or what we were intended for..isn't it the greatest thing being human is that we can take something that is a bodily necessity (food, protection from the elements, even basic intercourse...for survival of the species etc) and turn it into something truly divine and pleasurable...why on earth then do we actually cook and garnish to please all the sense, why do we bother with interior design and clothes that arent just sacks. Shoes to match outfits and accessories. As for sex, well perhaps we should go back to if we dont intend to procreate every time we have sex,then why bother? All this because we dare to use our brains to make decisions and dream and make things possible (how else do we fly between continents despite not having wings or the physical ability to do so without a plane/other device). What a sad existence it must be if you only let yourself do stuff that was necessary to survival and only stuff which purely your physical attributes allow!

LOL, sorry if I screwed up anyone's weekend by posting that link.

It's a huge and complex issue, and chebbles raises some very good points about what's "natural". This is exactly why I posted that link - because you can't just say "meat is murder" or post a list like the one that started this thread and then just expect the issue to be closed.

We are all different, and we all have our own reasons for eating the way we do, but the fact remains that we are all still alive in spite of our different diets, so even though we may be affecting our ultimate lifespan one way or the other, none of us is completely wrong. The human body is capable of adjusting to many different diets, and that's not so strange. Even if we all came out of Africa, we have since spread out all over the globe and have over the millenia adjusted to various climates and foods. The human body does evolve and adjust, and if it didn't, we wouldn't have lasted this long.

It is probably possible to add a few years to your life by eating all the right things, but we're not entirely sure what the right things are, and even if we knew, would we want to follow a very strict diet just to live a bit longer? I think a lot of people would choose enjoying life - and food - a bit more and perhaps sacrificing a year or two if the alternative meant constantly depriving themselves of their favourite foods.

Anyway, I'm rambling. All I really wanted to say is that it isn't all that simple. We're complex and diverse creatures, and I'm glad we are!

RealUnreal, Dude Chill. Why do you care what I eat??? I could care less what you eat or the next guy or the next guy.

Why does everyone seem to think that people on Atkins or any other LC WOE think that we all sit in circles gnawing and tearing at meat like a bunch of animals. Sometimes I just feel like whoppin' these people on the back of the head with a celery stick! Dipped in ranch of course. Oh no I can't do that because I have to EAT IT! Contrary to popular belief we eat veggies an no more meat than the average person!

Why is the way I eat criticized because I don't eat bread, sugar or potatoes! I eat just as much meat as I did when I was on Weight Watchers, so why don't you go spread your gospel word on a WW board as well.
Go, Go, spread the world with your knowledge.

Wee

RealUnreal,why is it that folk come to this forum, give us their viewpoint and then once we have given them feedback, well, we never hear from them again? hope this is not the case with you, would be v.interested to your response to all our replies, unless you have changed your mind ofcourse or have been left speechless.
Perhaps I am unfair and we will hear your counters in due course. Until then, keep the fried chicken coming!

Wait, wait, wait...humans AREN'T evolved as opportunistic prats? Then, young man, explain why everyone is so good at it!