Can anyone answer this? According to several of those online body fat calculators (the good ones that use wrist, forearm and neck measurements too) my lean muscle weight is between 93lbs and 103 lbs. OK split the difference lets say 98lbs. My goal weight is 113. Now at a body fat percentage of 20% that means 22lbs of fat plus lean muscle weight. To make 113lbs total I should have 91lbs lean muscle.

Did I do that right? Because clearly, I'm already over that (I've been working out for a good two years consistently -- lifting and cardio -- two hour work outs 3/week).

If that's the case will I have to drop down to 12% or 13% body fat to make my goal? Or do I have to drop my lean muscle mass? I don't even know what to do just to maintain my lean muscle weight and not keep increasing.

Does anyone know? Should I change my workout? I already know that I only seem to lose weight when I skip a workout. I doubt anyone would say stop all together but this looks like I should change my focus.

Definitely change your focus and take a break from working out.

Instead of focusing on your scale weight, why not focus on your BF% and let that determin your scale weight? 20% BF is healthy, attractive and attainable. If that puts you at 118 lbs if you do not gain any more lean mass then so be it. If you weigh 118 lbs with 20% BF and if you weigh 118 lbs with 26% BF you're not going to be the same size - fat takes up more volume / space than muscle does.

If you only seem to lose weight when you stop workingout it could be a sign you're working out too much and/or not eating enough. Workouts create a calorie deficit, if that deficit is too large your body becomes stressed and holds onto fat and water. Also, if you've been consistently workingout w/o a break for over 4 months it's time for a week off - the stress and lack of recovery can lead to overtraining and hinder progress (it can also make you sick)

I'd strongly suggest you hold onto all the lean mass you can - and get more if possible. It's the lean tissue that raises your metabolism and makes you leaner in the end. Muscle eats fat, the more you have the more fat gets eaten and the more calories you can eat to maintain your current weight. If you're building lean mass it's because your body needs / want's it. Some of us are predisposed to build it easier than others, some have to fight tooth and nail. Eating adequate calories and protein is how you maintain mass - throw in some resistance work and keep cardio from becoming excessive and you've got the mix that works for most of us.

Also, take all those online calculators with a grain of salt - they're OK for measuring progress though.

Cheers,
Nat

Body fat % is m uch more important then the scale. Throw the scale out the window and focus on toning.

There are many reasons why having more lean mass is good.
1. Muscle has better circulation then fat, this means you burn more calories even when sitting on your tush doing nothing.
2. Improved circulation also means less apperence of cellulite.
3. Muscle takes up less room. A pound of muscle is much more dense then a pound of fat, so you end up smaller at the same weight. Working out regularly can mean the difference between two dress sizes at the same weight.
4. Having a healthy body fat and lean weight means more strength and endurance. Dropping body fat to low, or going into starvation where your body starts to eat your lean mass for protien will probably make you feel like crud, not to mention have other health consequenses.

Shoot for a healthy body fat %, not a number you came up with off a table or out of the blue. The weight height tables are based on averages and can be way off for many people. To get down to what many of them say is a healthy lower weight for me would require droping down to almost 0% body fat, basicaly dead.

If you have 98 pounds lean weight, then a reasonable goal weight for you would be 122.5 pounds (20% BF) to 132 (26% BF)

For women 10-30 years old 20-26% body fat is considered healthy. Most professional athletes are 15-18% when in compatition. I think one at 15% said in an interview they no longer menstrated and had some other side effects related to the hormone side effects of getting that low (She was a gladiator on that old TV show)

Amenorrhea (the absence of menstrual bleeding) typically sets in once you go below 17% BF.

Here is a little more info on BF% and how to choose use it as your goal.

-Nat

Nat and Ladybelle,

Thank you both for your insights and your information! I wasn't shooting for high performance athlete just your average in shape not afraid to wear a bathing suit kind of person. I'll definately change focus to BF% rather than weight. Of course tracking that without a definitive means of measurement is tough. How do you guys feel about the scales that give bf% with electrical charges?

I guess I probably excercise more than the average over-weight person. It's just that untill I started lcing it didn't make any difference in my weight or my clothes.

Nat, I noticed in one of your postings on BFL that too much cardio can break down muscle. Is that just on a BFL regime or is that in general? Up untill recently I was doing the eliptical for 30 minutes on 8 for resistance at a fairly good clip then finishing my workout with a 20 minute run on the treadmill at a 12:30 minute mile (I'm fairly short so this is pretty fast for me). My calories run between 2500 to 3000 to compensate for the intensity of work out so I have a hard time thinking I'm in starvation.

Any thoughts on reworking my exercise plan. Most of my non-cardio is focused on abs (where I carry all my excess) and upper body. My legs are actully in good shape.

Thanks for your time

KRC

Check the best of forum - wbahn has a very informative post in there comparing the vardious methods of measuring BF. Frankly, I think as long as you pick one method and stick with it and use it as an overall indicator of progress you should be ok (remember they can all be off by a few percents, so a .5% drop in lean mass one month is not something to freak over!) I just use the trusty old tape measure these days, and an old pair of jeans to gauge progress.

This was my story as well. I was eating low fat / low calorie and exercising like mad - and getting fatter.

If you're eating enough - and I'd say you are - I would strongly suggest changing the workouts so that you make them an hour or under to keep cortisol from getting out of control (this happens after an hour of exercise) - a sign that coritsol is a problem is a tendancy to hold fat around the middle / abdomen. If you haven't had any time off from working out in a while I would also suggest a week of rest. This is also something you should incorporate into your workouts every 3 - 4 months, just to let the body recover and heal.

Too much cardio can be catabolic - it's a particular problem if you're doing the BFL style cardio and want to add in more w/o increasing protein, but in general it can also be a problem, especially if it goes on for periods of time longer than one hour. A little more about cortisol .

Keep in mind that change is good - reworking exercise plans, changing the reps, the exercises, the schemes are all ways to shock the body into responding. And also keep in mind that those lower body muscles are the big ones - they will burn more fat when they are active

Cheers,
-Nat

I agree with Nat. Find a good scale and use it wisely. I use a TANITA brand scale with BF% and it has been excellent in consistant weight measurement.

I suggest something that is not often recommended and that is daily weighing. HOWEVER...I do it twice a day. When I first rise and just before I retire for the night. I record both the weight and BF% for these times and feed it to a spreadsheet that does a 7 day average of this data. This helps minimize over reacting to either the normal daily weight and/or BF% variations that will be seen.

Understand that BF% reading can vary wildly. Factors like hydration, muscle activity, bladder/bowl contents, and recentcy of major exercise can have huge impacts on readings and will drive you wild unless you understand that. Thus, again, I rely on 7 day averaging. BF% are typically highest in the morning (most dehydrated) and lowest in the evening.

I have done this routine for 2 years and feel very confident in how it works to avoid over-reactions to daily weight fluctuations. YMMV.

Now I can say that I learned something today Good advice, Toots.

-Nat

Excellent thread, but I just wanna point out that 17% or whatever number is not the magic number of body fat that will interfere with periods. The number changes from woman to woman. There are women that at 19% will stop having regular periods, and women who will have regular periods at 14% or even 13%.

The healthiest body fat for a woman can be as low as she wants, provided it does not interfere with regular periods. The other side effects are not from low body fat per se, but from the amenorrhea.

My mother was a competitive swimmer for years and her body fat was around 13-14% and she always had her period. There was a time when she dropped to 12% and stopped getting her periods though. So it is very individual.

Thank you both for the information. I think it's clear that people who choose this wol seriously make the effort to educate themselves about their bodies and not blindly follow the latest fad. This entire forum is a perfect example of this effort. Thank you for helping me learn more about how my body functions so I can better take control of my health.

(Sorry I used to be in PR, that sounded like a sound bite didn't it -- but I believe it is true.)

I'm going to start researching scales.

Nat, I plan to take a break from workouts for about a week but when I go back any thoughts on duration and intensity of cardio? I know you suggested keeping the entire workout to 1 hour. How much of that should be cardio? Since I am rather short(just under 5' if I'm being honest) I'm very carefull about adding any bulk with my weight training. However, I do follow the "reps to exhaustion for two to three sets with the highest weights I can theory." I avoid much shoulder work as my personal preference about the shape of my body.

Thanks again for your insights.

Kim

Kim, absolutely shape the lifting to fit your preference, that is what it's all about, right?

When I suggested keeping the workout to under an hour that applies to both the resistance and the cardio - whether you combine them or do them seperately. You might try doing them on alternating days, allowing you to keep your longer cardio sessions. Keep in mind that doing intense cardio will have more of an impact on cortisol levels than the more aerobic lower intensity cardio - and frankly doing HIIT for an hour would be torture, IMHO.

BTW, lifting heavy and short is exactly what you want to get lean and toned - it's not going to add 'bulk' if you're female, we just don't have that hormonal profile, naturally anyway.

What I would suggest is changing your cardio from what you've been doing - nothing like change to shock the body into more fat loss. Going from long slow cardio to shorter higher intensity workouts will definitely have the desired impact - it will also free up some time during your day Change is good.

-Nat

Nat is so right - women don't bulk without the help of hormones. To even begin to gain mass, a woman would not only have to lift heavy but also consume a lot of calories including a fair amount of carb. Low-carb dieting by itself would prevent any bulking from happening - and when I say bulking I mean "looking like Madonna", not "looking like Chyna".

What I do is alternate cardio days and lifting days. Another option is do cardio in the morning, lifting after work to be able to manage both and keep workouts short.

Firstly, JV1311 I am soooo envious that you have that glorious freedom to work out TWICE in one day.WOW I've got two little ones and I'm just droolling over the thought.

So the question is what exactly do I do for my cardio. I've been doing interval training and I thought I read somewhere that a solid 20 minute session alternating high intensity for a minute or two and then backing off for a minute was good. Nat, is that a BFL thing?

I like to do both cardio and lifting in one workout because the truth is I hate the cardio and always feel obligated to do it. I use the lifting as sort of a reward for making it through.

Also, any ideas on ways to work on those hip areas? I'm doing side crunches with weight but that feels like the obliques rather than the hips. I know I can't spot reduce but I don't think I've got any muscle there at all.

Nat, My girls want to know the names of the cats please.

Kim

I have 2 little ones too. A 3 year old and a 7 month old. What I do to workout is sneak out before everyone is awake and my SO can watch them, or I sneak off on my lunch break or before they get out of daycare

The body fat scales are not completely accurate, but they can be a good average kind of thing. I find they do extreamly well on the weight part though.

One example I checked my weight and body fat. I then went and watched a movie while laying down, drinking my water and eatingnothing. When I rechecked my BF% a hour and half later I was down 1 pound and up 2% bodyfat. As long as I see a gradual decrease in the numbers though I know some swings are normal. Salt intake can also play a part as I can go up 5% some times and I know the culperate is higher sodium for that day. I think the fact water replaces fat in the cells before they completely empty effects it too.

Check out the Body for Life section. It has specific workouts. You can also try the 8 week program (It's by beach body, but I can't remember the name) where it sets up a specific schedule for you to follow alternating cardio and weight days.

I don't really want to look like Chyna either. Some of those more recent wrestlers (I don't watch anymore so no clue on thier names) though I wouldn't mind. They are muscular, but long and sleak, that is the look I want more then bulk. I think after 2 c-sections I will have to accept my pooch though and learn to live with it One thing I do respect Chyna for though, when she got implants she came out on television and announced it, showing off. She didn't try the "Magic growth overnight" trick so many stars do.

Kim, if you're doing the intervals now and you'd like to change it up or modify it (a good idea IMHO) try the odd longer slower session. HIIT is what you're talking about - alternating intensity for a minute, or 30 seconds and then backing off again. BFL is a little different, it's intervals, but you don't go all out until the last one. I've seen quite a few recommendations to do a couple of HIIT sessions a week and one other different type of cardio slower and less intensely, for variety.

If you're doing a 20 minute HIIT-like session then weights is still doable, most workouts are around 45 minutes, keeping you near 60 minutes.

You know what makes my hip flexors ache? Incline leg raises - exrx.net has a host of exercises for this area FYI.

BTW, Kim, if you're not crazy about cardio cutting down a little and / or taking a break isn't a bad thing, IMHO, it's better than too much, especially if you're trying to preserve lean mass.

No kids certainly makes the whole selfish workout thing easier - but the cats do try to take part, they love ab day. Orange one is Elvis (aka Guido, The Hoover, Garbarator) the tabby is Maxwell (think "princess" )

-Nat