I considered putting this in Lighter Side section, but maybe it's worth a debate

https://metro.co.uk/2018/10/13/why-...-vegan-8035056/



So what do you all think? Vegan or no?

Hahaha. Proves that the vegan agenda has nothing to do with health; rather, it embraces the philosophy to harm no animals or insects in this case. Using this definition of vegan, this would add many more vegetables to the list, matter of fact, very few would be available for vegans to consume. Given that vegetable farming depends on some relationships with "animals/insects" and that any farming practice destroys animals including bees & other insects with exoskeleton (Arthropods), earthworms (Annelids), and many other forms of life. Where do we stop? Eating plants means the potential of consuming a life supporting substance for all of the species falling under the various phyla. You could eat dirt, but you'd risk consuming roundworms (Nematodes). Hilarious.

Had an avocado for dinner tonight. It was delicious.

Clearing large tracts of land for farming kills many small animals and destroys animal habitats. I see this mentioned occasionally but not by vegans who would end up having nothing much to eat if they eliminated all foods that are produced without doing harm to animals.

One thing I have trouble understanding is the lack of distinction between say crickets and shrimp versus pigs and cows. I'm just not sure you can pack all that much suffering into an ant. Maybe I'm speaking ignorantly here, I don't know exactly what the measure is. If it's just a matter of the organism being able to sense and respond to damage, then we end up in the ridiculous argument of whether we have any right to eat carrots.

The concession that some concession has to be made to human well-being is interesting. Another place to ask--where to draw the line, who decides? Living on mostly animal foods seems to have done me a lot of good. Is it moral just for people like me? What if there are a lot of people like that out there?

Teaser, imo u r on the right track. Having a large acreage to farm and manage compared to most, I see all animals and all plants are valuable.

Tree guilds is a management method of growing fruit trees with many companion plants underneath and close by. Ants can be viewed as pests but keep some diseases away so they have a place. Deer visit regularly and I have plans to grow apple trees for them outside my main orchard area. Coyote slide thru unseen. Building a full food web keeps the land healthy and productive. It is not the way of huge commercial farms. When it is time for meat animals to go in the freezer it is quick and humane. And a prayer of thanks for my food. That thankfulness also transfered to the plants that die for me to eat. Getting food on the table is alot of work...as it should be. It makes me mindful of the price paid on many levels.

I enjoy the peepers at night on warm days, listen for the owl and whoot back. No place for pesticides here.

When a person tries gardening or raisi ng a few hens for eggs, one's view starts to expand. All plants, insects, and animals are important .

I Struggle with the vast acreage across the street cleared for 50 houselots. There is no thought for the animals that used that land....and folks will be upset when the coons and skunks visit the trash... And the deer nibble the pretty bushes.

I suppose migratory beekeeping might be considered an "unnatural use of animals." But moving the bees doesn't hurt them, as far as I know. Professional beekeepers are in business to propagate them, not kill them. And American bees, without human intervention in many locales, are endangered by viruses, mites, and (as other animal species) habitat destruction.

Thanks (or no thanks) to the human species, we'll never have Eden again, regardless of the Vegan religion.

Talking to my Dad about fruitarianism yesterday. Some fruitarians make the argument that trees "freely offer" their fruit, because they want to benefit from animals eating them and scattering their seed. So, eating carrots=violence, eating apples=symbiosis.

And of course flowers take advantage of bees, humming birds etc. by attracting them to assist with pollen. Is this moral? Not that arguing that even plants aren't vegan should have much effect, since most animals aren't, either. Probably none, even exclusive herbivores inevitably eat some bugs. And when you get to very small animal forms, I really don't have much more empathy for them than I do for carrots. I wouldn't start munching on a live pig, not just because of the logistical problems, but because I don't want it to suffer. My reason for not eating live bugs has more to do with ick than with ethics.

ROFL-- we tried cricket nachos and they were rather good!!! Otherwise I leave the insect eating to my chickens, then eat their eggs.

Yes, as the purpose of fruit is to move the seeds to a better location for that seed to sprout and make more of the parent plant, there is much symbiosis between a coyote or raccoon or human to eat the fruit and then make a deposit far off complete with fertilizer. That is when humans used to be nomadic.

I have been having these terrible thoughts that there is potting afoot to cause much fighting to decrease our p opulation globally. A feeling I cannot shake.

If it is about food, then we can step up and make a difference in the propogation of foods. WHen I garden, and try, to make food crops ( still learning) much of the half rotten or weeding goes to the chickens, who in turn give eggs and meat.
Speaking with a vegetarian yesterday in a conversation, another man from Poland lived the same experience in his small village that when a hog is slaughtered many families come together to share the work and share the food.

It is easy to sprout your own salad greens. By eating baby greens grown in a flat in a window, think of the extra food easily had, the decrease in transportation exhaust, and the increase in personal health.

Oh wait, increase in personal health..... isn't that counter to the devastating conflicts.....

What do fruitarians eat when the local trees are not "offering" their fruit? Well, this is probably a fruitless discussion anyway. (Pretend I didn't say that.)

At least there's some sign of flexibility among the leading Vegans.

In my museum studies, I've learned that extreme practitioners of the Jain religion go beyond covering their mouths to avoid breathing in insects, and sweeping the path ahead of them so as not to step on unseen living beings: they actually go naked so as to avoid ravaging the cotton plant or killing silkworms. Unfortunately, I cannot strive to be a Jain saint because, as a woman, I would not be allowed to go naked. The usual religious discrimination against women.

Perhaps a divine imagination is the key characteristic that distinguishes the human species from other animals. But oh my, how we make use of it!

Trucking bees around to do what bees do is NOT cruelty! Mabe “unnatural” but so what? I may eat Paleo, but I live indoors with heat and wear clothes.

This goes double for my cats 😀

Love it, thanks for bringing up this topic again. First good laugh of the New Year! Today we live in times of plenty unfortunately to the detriment of the health of many who choose the wrong "food" options; however, we can still extend availability and access to healthy, fresh foods due to technology and transportation capabilities that enable the opportunity for many to be healthy. If they choose to be . . . .

Your cats wear clothes?

They enjoy the heating, furniture, and buffet meals. None of that is "natural."

Bees are animals now?? Boy that's taking the Mandela effect pretty far.

Personally I think trucking bees around is a great idea. All those bees would not have a place to live of their own, and might not get to live at all. Instead, a mobile, "migrational" series of home-settings are provided them.

PJ