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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Dec-12-01, 13:01
alto alto is offline
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Posts: 2,171
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 296/278/179 Female  5'8
BF:
Progress: 15%
Location:
Default Thin for Good

I can't do a very detailed write up of this. I've read the book, but not studied it. But since it addresses people who have trouble losing, I thought some information might be better than none.

1. Plan's name: Common name of the diet:
Thin for Good (Fred Pescatore, M.D.)
Subtitle: The One Low-Carb Diet That Will Finally Work For You

2. Date: Original publication date: 2000 (John Wiley & Sons ISBN 0-471-36267-0

3.Basic Philosophy/Strategy:

I'll give you the back o' the book blurb -- what a marketer
-- "A revolutionary personalized program for lifelong thinness that integrates a powerful mind-body program with the latest low-carb dieting principles, meal plans, and recipes."

4. By the numbers: Percentages, phases

He divides people by age, gender and condition. It matters not only how young you are, but whether this is your first diet ("Beginners"). For women, are you pre or postmenopausal? There are different dietary guidelines for each age group. The first four weeks are a strict Atkins induction (trim fats, no chicken skin -- because of toxins, not fat -- cheese and cream are limited.) You stay on this until you hit goal. No messin' around! The you add some foods back in each week for eight weeks, stopping along the way if you start gaining, but there are specific things to add in. (First week, more veg and cheese.) These are incredibly specific -- exactly how many ounces of Category 1(fatty) or 2 and 3 (less fatty) meats can be eaten per week, for example, which salad vegetables are OK.

5. Method: Details of the method, what to eat, what to avoid
See number 4. Very specific guidelines, too many to list here, as each differs slightly
6. Typical menu: (warning, a lot of his recipes have cutesy names, but the book itself isn't cutesy. I was alarmed at the prospect of eating "Cyndi," "Luciano," or even "Chicken Lickin' for lunch. Other menus are of the Vogue magazine variety -- wonderful if your personal chef is in a good mood.
Sample day, when you can actually tell what you're eating by the names:
Breakfast: Spinach Pie
Lunch: Saltimbocca
Dinner: Spinach and Ricotta Dumplings, Korean Short Ribs
Dessert: (I love it that Dessert is a fourth meal) Lemon Cheesecake Square

139 recipes provided

7. Emphasis on: Fat, Sugar, Protein or Exercise
Emphasis on everything. He really does try to do an integrated approach. It seems that he's used "lessons learned" from working with Atkins patients and tried to refine the program and make it work for everybody.

8. Unique Fatures: Particulars that differ from general low-carb diets
The gimmick is that we all go through 11 stages of emotional eating. Each chapter is devoted to a different "level." BUT, to be fair, he addresses the emotional aspects of eating, which few others do. (They are, for the curious, anger, frustration, sadness, fear, understanding, trepidation, envy, boredom, relief,joy, contentment.)

Added 9. About the author. Brief bio and credentials. MUCH younger and cuter (and thinner) than Dr. Atkins. Dr. Pescatore "was Associate Medical Director of the world-renowned Atkins Center for Complementary Medicine for five years before founding the Centers for Integrative and Complementary Medicine based in New York and Dallas. He is a freqauent commentator and medical expert on NBC, ABC, Fox and CBS."

Last edited by alto : Wed, Dec-12-01 at 22:35.
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Dec-12-01, 17:00
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
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Posts: 35,975
 
Plan: DANDR '92
Stats: 241/175/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 65%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Default hi alto

By coincidence ... I just happen to be reading Thin for Good right now too. Renewed it for 3 more weeks from the library, but I do believe I'll be ordering my own copy, and just might give it a whirl for 30 days (but with my own menus)

I like the Mind-Body connections, although my issues and attitudes about food and dieting will be different from someone who's brand new to low carbing. After 20 months, I already know that it's me & LC for life. Haven't worked out which of the diet stages I should be at ... since it doesn't necessarily go by chronological age. Health conditions, dieting history, exercise level etc can move a person into another stage. Same goes for men.

From my point of view, the food lists aren't complicated. I've been mulling over the idea of restricting some foods, like red meat, dairy, etc ... but didn't know where to begin. To me ... the food lists are like a gift .. somebody else did all the calculating, so no guesswork for me. .. It "can" be higher in carbs ... since he permits small, occasional portions of whole grains and starchy vegetables such as beans and lentils. But these foods don't HAVE to be included. I do like that he devotes a whole chapter to special difficulties, such as Candida Yeast, thyroid, hormones, leaky gut and food allergies.

I think it could also be a useful program for a new low carber who has difficulty with menu planning, and who might find the undefined portion limits of Atkins to be a bit confusing. Especially those who aren't sure if they're eating enough, or maybe TOO MUCH.

Doreen
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Dec-12-01, 19:12
alto alto is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,171
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 296/278/179 Female  5'8
BF:
Progress: 15%
Location:
Default

I revised the original post slightly. I wanted to add some things, but my new Netscape 6.2 browser doesn't like to do that, sometimes, on this site.

I first got the book when it first came out, read it hurriedly and said, basically, "No way." (It limits bacon to 1 oz a day. I can give up chocolate, Coke and bread, but I cling to bacon.)

Now that I'm a little older, grayer and fatter, I'm looking at this book with different eyes. This guy has been there. He's counseled hundreds of people, he's seen them work the loopholes, he's seen what works -- you can feel this. His plan is basically Atkins without loopholes. None of this eat all the fat you want, no Revolution Rolls, no shakes.

And 1 ounce of water per kilogram of body weight a day. (For me, that's 4 quarts.)

Doreen, why I found the calculations complicated is that he will allow, say, up to 4 oz of protein for lunch, but only 3 oz of red meat; division isn't easy. Once you get the plan down on paper and structure a menu, it is easy.

For inactive, perimenopausal women with a family history of weight gain, this is what you can eat for Weeks 1-4:
Protein: up to 2 oz at breakfast, 4 oz at lunch, 8 oz for dinner. You don't have to eat that much; eat to satisfy hunger.

Protein choices PER DAY: 1 oz bacon, up to 3 eggs, 3 oz processed lunch meats, up to 3 oz beef, pork, shellfish, dark meat poultry without skin; up to 6 ounces veal, lamb, rabbit, white meat poultry.

3 cups salad greens, 1/2 cup low carb vegetables.

1/2 cup whole grain once a week
1/2 cup legumes per week

1 tbl cream PER DAY
1/4 cup berries or melon PER WEEK

Fats and condiments:
up to 3 tbl butter PER DAY
up to 3 tbl mayo PER DAY
unlimited olive oil
up to 4 tbl vinegar PER DAY

(this should be under protein choices, but I can't get my cursor to go there) hard cheese, up to 2 oz per day
soft cheese (cream, cottage, ricotta) 1 oz PER DAY

No alcohol
No commercially available desserts; eat diet jello
one 12-ounce diet soda a day
(As Doreen pointed out, the whole grains, legumes, diet soda, etc. are optional. These are all maximums.) You may eat the desserts in the recipe section, but only if you stay within the guidelines.

After 4 weeks of this, you go through an 8-week transition to "your lifelong diet." a few things are added back in -- mostly cheese and vegetables.

He also lists the 5 conditions that cause problems: yeast, hormones, thyroid problems, food allergies, prescription drugs.

With all this, he still urges people (especially women) to be happy with a 5 pound per month loss.

The 8 weeks transition can last up to a year or more.

For the first 30 days there are mind/body connection "thoughts for the day" to read and assimilate.

When I was reading the book, so many posts came to mind -- am I eating too much cheese? cream cheese? artificial sweeteners? sour cream and cream?

This may be a good book for those who want to rethink their program. I have some low carb stuff to finish up, and then I think I'll try this.

Last edited by alto : Wed, Dec-12-01 at 19:31.
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Dec-12-01, 19:28
alto alto is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,171
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 296/278/179 Female  5'8
BF:
Progress: 15%
Location:
Default

I'm sorry the above posts are so choppy; I can't move things around. The cursor freezes and won't go anywhere except at the end. (This is a Netscape problem, not a lowcarb.ca problem.)

Two things to add: There's a chapter on vegetarianism and a very thorough chapter on supplements.

And a final summary. He doesn't mince words. This is a diet. Somehow, I found that refreshing. I do want something that's a lifestyle change, and this works towards that. You start out on a diet, and you transition to maintenance. When I restarted this time, I was determined to find a plan that I could live with forever NOW. I'm not sure this is possible, nor perhaps advisable. Pescatore talks about reaching one's "forever diet." ("diet" here used as lway of eating forever, not "deprivation") at the end of the program, and that makes sense to me.

Last edited by alto : Wed, Dec-12-01 at 19:33.
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Dec-15-01, 12:45
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 35,975
 
Plan: DANDR '92
Stats: 241/175/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 65%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Lightbulb re - bacon and meats ...

hi alto ..

I'm still reading, and still thinking about this Thin for Good program. One thing ... you mentioned above about only one ounce of bacon. It occurred to me that the measures are for the COOKED meat, not raw.

According to our carb counter tool here, 3 medium slices of bacon, cooked, yield 109 calories, 6g protein and 9g fat. That's almost identical to the nutrient value of one oz. of natural cheddar cheese. The weight of 3 slices of bacon when RAW is 3 oz ... but when cooked, is a bit less than ONE oz.



Doreen
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, Dec-15-01, 13:11
alto alto is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,171
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 296/278/179 Female  5'8
BF:
Progress: 15%
Location:
Default

Thanks, Doreen. I'd noticed that most of his recipes are for 2 slices of bacon. 2 or 3 is better than none

I found the recipes odd, too. Maybe I have an overly symmetrical mind, but there are so many with six eggs, six ounces cheese (or whatever) to make eight servings. Since I live alone, I don't want to make eight servings of anything, much less something I can't easily divide. (3/4 oz cheese, ok. 3/4 egg.....)

I'm afraid I'm an adolescent when I read diet books. "I'm gonna do Atkins. Nope, Protein Power makes more sense and allows fruit; I'm doing PP. Aha! Schwarzbein is really pure. I'm gonna do Schwarzbein. (secret reason, she allows oatmeal for breakfast). Nope. Just read 'Thin for Good' and I'm going to try that next...")

I'm going to calm down now and stop reading books for awhile. My excuse is that I'm a Gemini and easily bored.

I'm puzzled by T4G's limiting of vegetables. Is it really a good idea not to eat more than 1/2 cup a day for a year? I ran a typical day's menu for perimenopausal women through fitday (using the maximums) and it came out to about 2100 calories, 12 grams carbs and 5 grams fiber. This cannot be a good thing.

If and when I stall, on my long crawl up Thin Mountain, I may well turn to him, though.
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, Dec-15-01, 14:02
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 35,975
 
Plan: DANDR '92
Stats: 241/175/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 65%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Cool

I'm a Gem too, and have been known to end up either bored with a thing, or way over-stimulated by it. Either way, nothing good ever comes of it until pause is taken and a few deep breaths --- and sometimes different coloured glasses besides rose helps me for sure

I'm alone too, and hate leftovers. My fridge/freezer is a dinky little thing that came with the apartment, so not much space. My own thoughts about recipes ... has been influenced by 4 weeks participating in the LC V.2 project (today's my final day). For the strict lean protein fasts, and the restrictive calorie boost days .. at first I wasted a lot of angst and energy trying to dream up recipes to make the food "interesting". This last week was a breeze ... I thought to myself, Screw the Recipes ... I just cooked plain meats and vegetables ... maybe a sprinkle of herbs or squeeze of lemon juice here and there. But there again, oh Gem of Gems I'm sure I'll get bored with plain soon enough.

I agree with you on the deficiency of vegetables. Although what is listed as "salad greens", which is permitted 3 cups a day ... includes cucumbers, spinach, kale, bok choy, mushrooms, celery, radishes (would include daikon radish), bell peppers, olives, fennel and bean sprouts. Funny, I ran a sample day's menu through fitday, and got around 1350 calories, but I didn't use maximums, I just made it up to be something I would consider reasonable ina day for ME.

Sometimes, it all comes back to this little snippet of advice I got from a fellow fibromyalgia sufferer during a "class" we were sent to in order to "learn" how to cope. After the "expert" finished speaking, and the pamphlets and hand-outs went around the room .. all I could do was shake my head in disbelief at the B.S. Maybe it was the look on my face, but a woman sitting next to me leaned over and whispered
  • ~ Be a filter ~
Great piece of advice, and it's helped me a lot over the years. So much information and knowledge will come your way, often whether you seek it or not. You can spend forever knocking yourself out trying to do it all OR ... you can filter out what isn't useful to you, and hang onto the stuff that's really important. The challenge comes down to recognizing which is which ... And also recognizing that not all good information will come from one source. Nor will you necessarily LIKE the information that's really good for you.

Life's just one big learning curve.

Doreen
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, Dec-15-01, 19:28
alto alto is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,171
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 296/278/179 Female  5'8
BF:
Progress: 15%
Location:
Default

Very sage advice (filtering). It is fun to try new things, but often one ends up spinning one's wheels.

What I ran through Fitday was the amounts I'd posted: 6 oz red meat, 3 oz white meat, etc. -- and for my weight, which is considerably higher than yours So that may well account for the calorie differences.

I went through exactly the same path, from looking for new and exciting recipes to the comfort of a standard menu -- comfort food, in a way. But if I do that for two weeks, I won't be able to look at a hamburger. I suppose I'll just have to lurch along until I find the proper balance


Doreen, I hope if you try this you'll keep us informed. What I love about this site is that we're all experimenting -- and experiments, in a way -- and we can watch each other's experiments and see what fits.

Glad to meet another Gemini
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  #9   ^
Old Sun, Dec-16-01, 17:27
zellie zellie is offline
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Posts: 98
 
Plan: Atkins/PP/Kiss
Stats: 160/120/110
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: homebase NY
Default

Interesting reading, thanks.
btw, I recall reading a tip somewhere, if salt is a problem (bacon has lots of salt), soak the bacon in water to remove the salt. I didn't make a mental note of the tip since I don't eat bacon.

zellie
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Aug-22-02, 08:43
TeriDoodle TeriDoodle is offline
Starting Over!
Posts: 3,435
 
Plan: Protein Power LifePlan
Stats: 182/178/150 Female 67 inches
BF:Jiggley mess
Progress: 13%
Location: Texas!!
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Yes, very interesting reading indeed.....and very useful. I almost just plunked down $20 for the book....I think I'll hold out. Way too little fruit for my taste! I gotta have my 1/4c berries every day!

Also loved the discussion about being Gemini....I'm a Gem too and BOY could I relate to your "boredom" thang!

~Be a filter~ I like that.
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