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  #76   ^
Old Fri, Apr-03-09, 11:33
Valtor's Avatar
Valtor Valtor is offline
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Posts: 2,036
 
Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Québec, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lil' annie
Hey, with all the research you're doing, you're gonna end up bankrupting a few pharmaceutical companies and destroying the psychiatric industry which will have to lay off EVERYBODY, ...

Wait there's someone at the door...



Patrick
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  #77   ^
Old Fri, Apr-03-09, 11:44
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Valtor Valtor is offline
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Posts: 2,036
 
Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Québec, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deirdra
Patrick, It would be interesting in your test to pick a number of grams of fructose to allow per day 5g? 10g? to see what level controls symptoms. Note with this tool you can search various types of foods by changing the food category at the top.

I do find it interesting that the higher-fructose LC foods are ones that tend to give me cravings (but so do potatoes, with 0g fructose).

Well maybe Annie would be best to test it this way. I don't think I have symptoms of FM of FI per say. My doctor tells me I'm very healthy and also I felt fine eating carbs before. I started LC just for weight loss. Of course now I know that it's much more than just for weight loss.

What I'm trying to see is if I can eat zero-fructose carbs without exacerbating the metabolic syndrome. I think the fastest way to find out is to stay away from any forms of fructose while indulging in the carbs I can.

Patrick
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  #78   ^
Old Fri, Apr-03-09, 11:49
lil' annie lil' annie is offline
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Posts: 1,276
 
Plan: quasi paleo + starch
Stats: 153/148/118 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 14%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valtor
Ah ok, now I understand that they are not trying to stay away from fructose. They are just looking at solving their actual issues. Should have seen that, sorry.

Sugar maybe safe for their issue, but it's not safe for our health. I'm looking at all this from the point of view that fructose, in whatever forms, causes the metabolic syndrome when taken in excess.

Patrick



Precisely !!!


That is why the lists of *safe* food are merely interesting, and NOT anything to go by - if the actual goal is to eliminate fructose from the diet.

HOWEVER, what is very important is that these lists show why the HFCS "experts" are WRONG -- they keep saying that their HFCS is the SAME as sugar, but for one-third or more of the population, that is a LIE.

Remember that one article, by someone now on a LC diet who grew to over 400 pounds by drinking over a 12-pack of HFCS soda every day?

MAYBE all those little old ladies who made goodies for the church bake sales, maybe they were mainly SKINNY old ladies because their sweet of choice was sugar based, and they NEVER consumed any HFCS which was developed in the 1980s?????
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  #79   ^
Old Fri, Apr-03-09, 11:57
lil' annie lil' annie is offline
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Posts: 1,276
 
Plan: quasi paleo + starch
Stats: 153/148/118 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 14%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valtor
Well maybe Annie would be best to test it this way. I don't think I have symptoms of FM of FI per say. My doctor tells me I'm very healthy and also I felt fine eating carbs before. I started LC just for weight loss. Of course now I know that it's much more than just for weight loss.

What I'm trying to see is if I can eat zero-fructose carbs without exacerbating the metabolic syndrome. I think the fastest way to find out is to stay away from any forms of fructose while indulging in the carbs I can.

Patrick



You were responding to a posting originally posted by deirdra.


I wonder if a ZERO fructose diet means that one can only eat meat & eggs???

I sliced up a potato and fried it this morning, and I have absolutely NO cravings, and frankly NO reaction to it -- I haven't had any potato since last summer.
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  #80   ^
Old Fri, Apr-03-09, 12:00
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
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Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lil' annie
That's where it's explained that if the specific item has BOTH glucose AND fructose, in fairly balanced amounts, then it is safe.

I read an article about a guy with fructose intolerance. It said that if he accidentally gets too much fructose, he can take glucose and it actually stops the symptoms.

Not something I would try, though!
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  #81   ^
Old Fri, Apr-03-09, 12:06
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capmikee capmikee is offline
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Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lil' annie
I'm positive that I either have Fructose Intolerance, OR... in my attempts to achieve health, I've made myself eat copious amounts of veggies, fruits, beans & legumes - and I was always heavy on the onions, as there are so many articles touting their health benefits.

I've gotten very gassy reactions to both coconut milk and raw onions, although both seemed to make me feel better sometimes too. I kept telling myself it was just candida die-off - but maybe I was wrong.

Traditional Chinese Medicine says that alliums (garlic and onions) have a "dispersive" effect which is good for curing disease, but they should not be used for prolonged periods.

A "congee" restaurant in New York City posts a list of the "five poisons:" Garlic, onions, shallots, leeks, and tobacco.
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  #82   ^
Old Fri, Apr-03-09, 12:12
lil' annie lil' annie is offline
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Posts: 1,276
 
Plan: quasi paleo + starch
Stats: 153/148/118 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 14%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capmikee
I read an article about a guy with fructose intolerance. It said that if he accidentally gets too much fructose, he can take glucose and it actually stops the symptoms.

Not something I would try, though!



That's what people with Hereditary Fructose Intolerance have to do, I don't understand any of the biochemistry, but evidentally in the presence of glucose, the fructose can be tolerated.
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  #83   ^
Old Fri, Apr-03-09, 12:14
lil' annie lil' annie is offline
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Posts: 1,276
 
Plan: quasi paleo + starch
Stats: 153/148/118 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 14%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valtor
Wait there's someone at the door...



Patrick



Well, IF you return, be sure to take a looksee at this funny posting, it is just u.n.b.e.l.i.e.v.a.b.l.e


Quote:
Originally Posted by JL53563
This come directly from the American Diabetes Organization web site.

Sweeteners & Desserts

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you have diabetes, that doesn't mean you can't eat sweets. People with diabetes can eat desserts, use sweeteners, and still keep their blood glucose (sugar) levels in their target range. These options are available for sweetening your foods:

Sugar and other sweeteners with calories including honey, brown sugar, molasses, fructose, cane sugar, and confectioners sugar


Reduced-calorie sweeteners including erythritol, hydrogenated starch hydrolysates, isomalt, lactitol, maltitol, mannitol, sorbitol, and xylitol


Low-calorie sweeteners such as ascelfume potassium, aspartame, saccharin and sucralose


Sugar and Other Sweeteners with Calories

In the past, people with diabetes were warned to avoid sugar. Experts believed eating sugar would rapidly increase blood glucose, resulting in levels that were too high. Some people even thought eating sugar caused diabetes, an idea that we know now isn't true. Research has shown that sugar has the same effect on blood glucose levels as other carbohydrates, also called carbs, such as bread or potatoes. Calorie for calorie, sugar raises blood glucose about the same amount as other carbohydrates. Now experts agree you can eat foods with sugar as long as you work them into your meal plan as you would any other carb-containing food. The same guidelines apply to other sweeteners with calories, including brown sugar, honey, and molasses.

Of course, most sweets and desserts don't provide the important vitamins and minerals found in more healthful foods, so you'll want to make sure you're still getting the nutrients you need. Many sweets, in addition to having carbs, are also high in fat and calories.

Further Reading . . .
Forbidden Foods Diabetes Cookbook contains all the foods you dream about eating but didn't think you could! Also, this book contains 150 simple-to-prepare recipes, each with their own nutrient analysis. To find more cookbooks, click here.


If you like sweets, but also want to lose weight, you can try these tips:

Satisfy your sweet tooth with fresh or dried fruit


Eat a small serving of your favorite dessert, instead of something ordinary


When you are eating out, split desserts with a friend or family member


Cut back on the amounts of sugar and fat in your recipe favorites


Try new recipes for lower-calorie sweets


Choose lower-calorie, lower-fat versions of your favorite desserts


Use a low-calorie sweetener instead of sugar for your coffee or tea


How can I have sweets and still keep my blood glucose on target?

The key to keeping your blood glucose on target is to substitute small portions of sweets for other carb-containing foods in your meals and snacks. Carb-containing foods include bread, tortillas, rice, crackers, cereal, fruit, juice, milk, yogurt, potatoes, corn, and peas. For many people, having about 45 to 60 grams at meals is about right. Serving sizes make a difference. To include sweets in your meal, you can cut back on the other carb foods at the same meal.

For example, you'd like to have cookies with your lunch. Your lunch is a turkey sandwich with two slices of bread. Your first step is to identify the carb foods in your meal. Bread is a carb. You decide to swap two slices of bread for two slices of low-calorie bread and have the cookies -- it's an even trade. Your total amount of carbohydrate remains the same for the meal.

Here's the link.
http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-a.../sweeteners.jsp




http://forum.lowcarber.org/newreply...reply&p=5942936
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  #84   ^
Old Fri, Apr-03-09, 12:18
Valtor's Avatar
Valtor Valtor is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,036
 
Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Québec, Canada
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A little word of caution about the tool at nutrition.whatfoods.com. The amount shown for Fructose is not the absolute amount at all. If you check almonds it says 0g fructose and if you check sucrose it's 4.54g !

So I can't use this tool as is

Patrick
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  #85   ^
Old Fri, Apr-03-09, 12:24
Valtor's Avatar
Valtor Valtor is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,036
 
Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Québec, Canada
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Yes Annie, it's nearly criminal what they tell diabetics.

That's why Dr. Feinman is asking us to sign the petition at http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/ge...xperts-who-have

I think it's very important that the NIH acknowledges the science. As far as I'm concerned, they can bash LC all they want for weight loss. But they should never ignore it for people with diabetes !

Patrick
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  #86   ^
Old Fri, Apr-03-09, 12:46
lil' annie lil' annie is offline
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Posts: 1,276
 
Plan: quasi paleo + starch
Stats: 153/148/118 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 14%
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http://forum.lowcarber.org/newreply...reply&p=5452483



Quote:
Originally Posted by kebaldwin
Fructose Sweetener Spurs Obesity Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:47 PM ET

FRIDAY, July 29 (HealthDay News) -- Another study finds that high consumption of soft drinks and other sweetened beverages contributes to obesity. But this study, conducted in mice, suggests that one form of natural sweetener -- fructose -- may be especially likely to encourage weight gain.

In the study, researchers at the University of Cincinnati allowed mice to freely consume either plain water or fructose-sweetened water and soft drinks.

The mice that drank the fructose-sweetened water and soft drinks gained weight, even though they took in fewer calories from solid food.

By the end of the study, the mice that consumed fructose-sweetened beverages had 90 percent more body fat than the mice that consumed water only.

The findings suggest that the total amount of calories consumed when someone includes fructose in their diets may not be the only cause of weight gain. Consuming fructose may actually affect metabolism in a way that leads to more fat storage, at least in mice, the researchers said.

"Our study shows how fat mass increases as a direct consequence of soft drink consumption," study author Dr. Matthias Tschop, associate professor in the University of Cincinnati's psychiatry department and a member of the Obesity Research Center at the university's Genome Research Institute, said in a prepared statement.

"We were surprised to see that mice actually ate less when exposed to fructose-sweetened beverages, and therefore didn't consume more overall calories. Nevertheless, they gained significantly more body fat within a few weeks," Tschop said.

The study appears in the July issue of the journal Obesity Research.

More information
The American Academy of Family Physicians has advice about weight control.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/2005073...HNlYwMlJVRPUCUl



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  #87   ^
Old Fri, Apr-03-09, 12:59
lil' annie lil' annie is offline
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Posts: 1,276
 
Plan: quasi paleo + starch
Stats: 153/148/118 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 14%
Default It might not be so unaccurate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valtor
A little word of caution about the tool at nutrition.whatfoods.com. The amount shown for Fructose is not the absolute amount at all. If you check almonds it says 0g fructose and if you check sucrose it's 4.54g !

So I can't use this tool as is

Patrick



I checked on almonds at the USDA website, and for one cup of slivered almonds, here's how they split the sugars:


Sugars: total g 4.20



Sucrose g 3.89

Glucose (dextrose) g 0.13

Fructose g 0.10

Lactose g 0.00

Maltose g 0.04

Galactose g 0.05

Starch g 0.80
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  #88   ^
Old Fri, Apr-03-09, 13:31
Valtor's Avatar
Valtor Valtor is offline
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Posts: 2,036
 
Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Québec, Canada
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I believe they list the sugar molecules themselves without breaking them in their less complex constituents.

They say 0.10g Fructose and 3.89g Sucrose. Once digested you will have about 2.04g of Fructose added to your bloodstream. (3.89 / 2 + 0.1).

That's what I meant by absolute amount

Patrick
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  #89   ^
Old Fri, Apr-03-09, 16:34
lil' annie lil' annie is offline
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Posts: 1,276
 
Plan: quasi paleo + starch
Stats: 153/148/118 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 14%
Default

Here are a few books that may be of interest, I'm hoping that the last one listed is at my library, because one of the customer reviewers said it was an excellent explanation of fructose metabolism, and also because it received a very high numerical score.


Living With Dietary Fructose Intolerance: A Guide to Managing your Life With this New Diagnosis: Judy Smith

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cach...e=UTF-8&strip=1

The Sugar Fix: The High-Fructose Fallout That Is Making You Fat and Sick: by Richard Johnson, M.D.,

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cach...e=UTF-8&strip=1

Self Help Way To Treat Colitis and Other IBS Conditions, Second Edition (Paperback)
by DeLamar Gibbons

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cach...e=UTF-8&strip=1
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  #90   ^
Old Fri, Apr-03-09, 17:04
Valtor's Avatar
Valtor Valtor is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,036
 
Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Québec, Canada
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Thanks Annie,

Dr. Johnson's book was already on my to-buy list It seems to be the reference. He is the guy who told Gary Taubes that maybe not all carbs are evil. I guess I will find out soon enough

Patrick
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