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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Sep-04-03, 09:59
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
Angry Hello

hello:
i've been lc for while when figured that my fasting BG is >126. i've managed to lose some weight, and my fasting started coming down but never reached a desirable tange, never below 110. however, my pp BG are always in a good range. now, my weight loss stalled, and my fasting BG are the same, in 120-130 range for most of the days. in addition, i founds out that if i eat more protein and fat, it will raise my BG next meal and they stay elevated longer. i appreciate any advise.
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Sep-04-03, 14:58
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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Hi Dina!

I split your post out from the other thread so that it might get a bit more views and responses.
It's hard, though, to give you any suggestions without knowing more about what you are eating, what medications you are taking, are you excercising, how long you have been low carbing, etc...
Can you provide more information and perhaps some examples of daily menus?
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  #3   ^
Old Thu, Sep-04-03, 16:49
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
Default

Hi Lisa N:
Thanks for your reply. Actually, i've started very low carb diet since past november but i've been on a moderate lc diet basically all my life ( no sugar since i was 22, no candies, sweets, soda, not much bread and potatoes, etc.). i always loved fruits and veggies, and basically lived on it plus some protein, and very little fat. always was afraid of it. i was yo-yo dieting all my life however, never been really overweight until lately but not the skint type either.
lately, past 3-4 years my appetite has dramatically increased, i could eat every 2-3 hours which never happened before. i started eating simply larger portions than before, and snacking on nuts and fruits. also I quited smoking and as a result gained 35 pounds over 3-4 years, balooning to 194 lbs, i'm 5'5" with medium frame.
when i figured that my fasting BG was 157 during a routine physical blood test, i've panicked ( my mom developed diabetes but at old age). but since my H1C was 5.7 the doc said this is just IR and suggested i lose weight, and nothing to worry about. i've been working out all the time with weights but not so much cardio.
so, i've started working even harder and included cardio, and at the same time i went on limited carbs, low fat and moderate protein diet. it was a combination of a bunch of diet books i;ve read. i've managed to lose 35 pounds in 3 months, my fasting BG is now at 120-130 range for most of the days and my pp was never high, around 90-100. my second H1C was 5.4 but fasting was still 140.
then i've came across Dr.B book and i started his plan. i've cutted all fruit ( i had some before) and added more fat, especially saturated to my diet. iinstead of losing weight, i gained 5-7 lbs and didn;t fill well. i guess i got to ketosis state, and the worst -my fasting BG jumped to 140-150.
the less carbs i ate, the higher my fasting BG was.
finally, i gave up and got my carbs to 40-50 gm a day, and now fasting is back at 125 average.
i'm not on any meds, my docs didn't want to prescribe me any. they say i;m OK as is but it's not good enogh for me. my daily diet is somwhat like this:
breakfast
2 eggs +2-3 strips of bacon+ some mushrooms or zukini
1 bran-a crisp
tea or decaf + heavy cream

Lunch:
romaine salad + grilled chicken (4-5ounces)
bell papers, some cheese, oil and vinegar
sometimes 1/2 nectarin or grapefuit
Dinner:
salad or lc veggies with either butter or oil
some source of protein (6 ounces) chicken, fish, or meat
cheese, berries or sf jello with heavy cream
1/2 glass of red wine or jin martini but only 2-3 times a week.
i eat pretty much the same things all the time.
sometime, i get lc tortilla (3 grams active carbs).
i walk/jog every day for 45-60 minutes at lunch and lift weights for 45-60 minutes 3-4 times a week very intense workout.
i take ALA, EPO and vitalin E.
i've read all the posts when folks maged to get their BG at normal range within 2 weeks, and i'm puzzled, what am i doing wrong?
thanks a lot
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Sep-04-03, 17:19
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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I'm honestly not sure what's going on, Dina. It seems that you are doing everything that you're supposed to and from what you've listed above, it should be helping if you have insulin resistance. The only suggestions that I would have would be to cut the fruit and the alcohol and see if that helps.
When your morning (fasting) blood sugars are higher than your readings the rest of the day, it could be several things from the dawn phenomenon to eating too close to bedtime to delayed gastric emptying. The fact that you seem to get higher readings after a higher fat/protein meal would suggest the latter.
It could be that you need some help medication-wise to help you get those blood sugars down the rest of the way until you get the rest of the weight off.
Have you tried talking to your doctor about your concerns? If diet and excercise alone aren't bringing your blood sugars down to non-diabetic ranges, there may be more going on than simple insulin resistance. Many doctors are satisfied with higher than normal readings, but perhaps if you explain to your doctor that you aren't satisfied with "good enough" readings but instead are trying to attain non-diabetic readings, they may be more willing to work with you to achieve that.
Glucophage (Metformin) is the current medication of choice for insulin resistance. I'm a little surprised that your doctor didn't suggest it and instead just told you to lose weight. Yes, weight loss and excercise will often do much to help insulin resistance, but sometimes it's not enough. IMHO, you've given the weight loss/diet/exercise regime more than a fair go and perhaps it's time to go back and have a serious discussion with your doctor.
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Sep-04-03, 21:40
p_rosie's Avatar
p_rosie p_rosie is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 572
 
Plan: PP
Stats: 183/165/145 Female 5'6
BF:41/39/20's
Progress: 47%
Location: Northern California
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hi Dina
Welcome. Nice to see you here. Wish I had some advice for you. Lisa is a great resource as well, you will find pepsi_max here. I hope you find your answers,
Rosie
You might consider starting a journal, it is a good way for you to keep track and for others to "pop" in to advise.
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Sep-05-03, 05:55
pepsi max's Avatar
pepsi max pepsi max is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,148
 
Plan: atkins/bernstein
Stats: 105/105/105 Female 63ins
BF:
Progress:
Location: sunderland. uk
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hi dina,
fancy seeing you here.pleased you,ve joined us.rosies right.starting a journal is a good idea.
ps,Bills here as well!
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Sep-05-03, 11:14
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
Smile

Thank you Lisa N. i too suspect that something is not that simple. may it's delayed gastric emptying but i need to get back to Dr.B book and refresh what exactly it is. i try different tricks to lower my fasting, and alcohol is one of them. i;ve also checked my BG midnight ( 2-3 AM) and it's much lower that 7-8 AM. this morning i was a happy camper with BG of 115 (got a glass of red wine last night for dinner, and then after 2 hours - 1/4 apple and 10 almonds). it's hard to predict fasting readings since there are more factors than food alone. i have an appointment with a new doc next week, i'll bring up the meds. i guess that metfomin would be their first choice. i'm afraid of it a little bit since it's harmfull for liver. but after all, this thing needs to be grounded anyway.LOL
Hi pepsi_max, i'm all over the place. it's nice to be in a good company. yes, i saw bill's posts too.
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Sep-05-03, 15:09
Sherrielee Sherrielee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 411
 
Plan: Atkins/Bernstein
Stats: 240/171/130 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Southeast USA
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Hi Dina! Don't be afraid of Metformin. It really lowers the BGL fast. I started it for a second time this summer (when I was sick) and my basal BGL went from about 150 to 100 in 2 weeks. I couldn't get the fasting down until I found the bedtime alcohol thing. I am pretty happy now, but would never hesitate to use Metformin again. (I also lost weight much more easily with Metformin. I only stopped taking them because I hit 50's BGL twice in 2 afternoons in a row...and didn't even feel weird!) I know I wouldn't have had a HYPO experience, but didn't like that I couldn't tell.

Welcome, you will get some terrific advise here!
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Sep-05-03, 15:39
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

I'll echo what Sherri said about the Glucophage. Yes, it CAN cause problems with the liver and you should be very cautious about using alcohol if you are taking it, but it doesn't cause liver problems in all people taking it (actually, only a few) and usually not at lower dosages which is what they would start you on with the blood sugar readings that you are having. If your doctor puts you on Glucophage, they will do certain blood tests every few months to monitor your liver and as long as your tests stay normal, you have no problem.
In most cases, the benefits of taking the Glucophage far outweigh the possible risks that it may pose in those that need it since having elevated blood sugars definitely causes damage in everyone, while the Glucophage only causes a problem in a small number of people.
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Sep-05-03, 23:15
alaskaman alaskaman is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 870
 
Plan: Dr Bernstein
Stats: 195/175/170
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: alaska
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I dina, good to see you here as well as on the Dr B forum. I think you were the one over there who commented on how mysterious some of this is, the way our bodies work. Its not just calories in, or even carbs in, plus insulin in. The liver, delayed emptying, all of these things. I bet you will get this worked out, perhaps with the metformin, who knows. But at least take comfort that you are controlling this. You could be like my dad, every 6 months or a year, his dr would look at his h1ac, which would be 8 or 9, up his dosage of diabinase, and of course now he's on insulin. Bill
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  #11   ^
Old Sat, Sep-06-03, 10:58
dina1957 dina1957 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,854
 
Plan: My own
Stats: 194/000/150 Female 5'5"
BF:Not sure
Progress: 441%
Location: Bay Area
Default

hi all and thank you for your replies.i know it could be worst, after all my meter says that i'm averaging 110 for 14 days, and 100 for 30 days, and the highest is usually in the morning, 125 without alcohol, and 115-118 with a drink before bedtime.
i figured that 1/2 glass of red wine works as well as martini without making me too sleepy. anyway, i'm done with my fruit cheating and back on track. i feel like i;ve gained 5 pounds for the last 2-3 days of cheating. now, i have to work on this.
later,
dina
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  #12   ^
Old Sat, Sep-06-03, 12:06
plum's Avatar
plum plum is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,809
 
Plan: Primal Blueprint
Stats: 230/136/136 Female 5'5"
BF:
Progress: 100%
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hi dina
I have no idea if this will be of any interest , but will pass it on.....
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/
this is Barry Groves website ( UK author of "eat fat, get thin") and he has a section on diabetes. When reading it, I saw a reference to "the Dawn Phenomenon" of higher morning readings.
best wishes, plum xx
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  #13   ^
Old Sat, Sep-06-03, 20:39
alaskaman alaskaman is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 870
 
Plan: Dr Bernstein
Stats: 195/175/170
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: alaska
Default

plum thanks so much for posting that link, looks like a wonderful site. I'd heard of his book, but it seems to be more known in the UK than here, so haven't gotten it yet. Thanks again, look forward to lots of entertaining and enlightening time on it.Bill
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  #14   ^
Old Sun, Sep-07-03, 06:30
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Thanks for the link, Plum!

Dr. Bernstein also addressed the dawn phenomenon in his book. Although its precise cause is not known at this time, he does pose some possible solutions for it. It's thought that by some mechanism the body becomes less sensitive to insulin (either its own or that which you inject) during the early morning hours causing blood sugars to rise during that time. Combine that with glycogen production from a fasting state (you don't eat when you're sleeping usually) and you can wind up with blood sugars that are higher in the morning than when you went to bed.
For myself, I was experiencing the dawn phenomenon when I first started low carbing; not significant but my morning readings were running 10-15 points higher than my bedtime ones. It eventually cleared up after several months and now my morning readings are consistantly my lowest of the day so it seems that with some work (either diet or medication adjustments or both) it can be overcome.
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  #15   ^
Old Sun, Sep-07-03, 11:25
grannycraf's Avatar
grannycraf grannycraf is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 92
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein (since 7/03
Stats: 255/213/130 Female 62 inches
BF:47%/39%/24%
Progress: 34%
Location: Tampa, Florida
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Lisa:

Regarding the dawn phenomenom, am I going to have to live with it until it adjusts itself? I have tried numerous things to bring it down, eating fat before bedtime, eat peanut butter before bedtime. Take my pills at bedtime. Taking my pills at dinner time. Taking ALA. Injecting long acting insulin. The whiskey experiment was the worst. I am not a drinker and taking a shot of whiskey before bedtime was nearly the end of me. Is this a wait it out kind of thing? My doctor is not at all concerned about the rise I get in the morning. I go to bed with 120 and wake up with 135 to 140 and sometimes as high as 150. I hit it with lispro to bring it down. I slavishly folllow Dr. B's plan and I exercise on a regular basis just like Dr. B suggests. Am I doing all I can?

The reason I ask is because I am fretting about this so much it is taking over my life. If it will go away by itself and I just do what I should be doing to get there (including losing weight) then I think I will stop obsessing about it.

Thanks!

Last edited by grannycraf : Sun, Sep-07-03 at 11:29.
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