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  #346   ^
Old Wed, Feb-27-19, 19:03
CityGirl8 CityGirl8 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 856
 
Plan: Protein Power, IF
Stats: 238/204/145 Female 5'8"
BF:53.75%/46.6%/25%
Progress: 37%
Location: PNW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deirdra
The problem with WW is they make most of their money selling calorie-limited low-fat processed food, but with keto I eat zero processed food, just real food with fat. Some people may need the encouragement and ideas that WW offers, but I get that here.
But lots of people trying keto do eat processed food and many more would try it, if they could find more accessible pre-made options in the freezer section at your average supermarket. We focus a lot on whole foods, quality of foods, etc. But LC/keto does not = whole foods. Just very low carb. Think of all those people who are doing "dirty" keto and having tons of success with it. If WW wasn't stuck in 1982, they could go back to their original plan, which was LC and make frozen meals and diet bars that fit that plan. Lots of people would buy it!
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  #347   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-19, 04:31
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,370
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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The JP Morgan analyst called out Noom and DietDoctor as its rivals now, and there are no food products for sale.
DietDoctor puts a great deal of emphasis on avoiding processed foods, artificial sweeteners, and not advertising or using any "Keto products". "It's not like a company"...right about that. They are fighting a social media phenomenon without shareholders to satisfy....WW has no idea how to combat a "Keto surge"....or diet that works better than their program for health and weight loss.

Quote:
We have a keto surge,” she said. “It’s a meme, it’s not like a company, it’s people have keto donuts, and everybody on the diet side look for the quick fix. We’ve been through this before, and we know that we are the program that works.”


Quote:
Grossman stressed that WW is not going to change its strategy just because there is a new diet plan that’s popular.

“Everybody on the diet side looks for the quick fix. We’ve been through this before and we know that we are the program that works,” Grossman said.


That is a quote from a CEO who is clueless as how to stop the hemorrhaging. DietDoctor is not just a "new diet plan" (and keto is not new anyway). It is the collective wisdom of crowds presented on new social media platforms. The 57 year old WW program does not work for the vast majority of users, nor do they do want a quick fix, they actually want to lose weight once and for all. The move to emphasize "wellness" is not what customers wanted, nor does it help to have a spokeswoman who appears to have regained the weight she lost.


More about Oprah in this story. She has been selling in the recent, but now past, run-up. https://moguldom.com/187381/dollars...n-stock-value/#

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Feb-28-19 at 06:45.
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  #348   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-19, 06:00
tess9132 tess9132 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 873
 
Plan: general lc
Stats: 214/146/130 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 81%
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Quote:
I keep thinking that they'll come around to low carb but so far they haven't.
They do seem to be focusing on foods with a lower glycemic index though which I think is the precursor to low carb. My sister in law does WW and is very happy with her results. She pays a lot for it though. But the plan is definitely not keto. Recently, after spending a long, harrowing day in NYC, she and I were at a Roy Rogers rest stop on the Jersey Turnpike - I got a bacon cheeseburger (no bun), and she got a plain biscuit (no butter). Both of us on plan.

I also think a lot of people do want low carb convenience foods. Our Wawa has started to sell pepperoni wrapped cheesesticks. My husband loves them and the cashier told him they can't keep them in stock. And speaking of stock value, the CEOs of both ConAgra (Healthy Choice Frozen dinners, Birds Eye, SlimJims) and BGS Foods (Green Giant, Victoria pasta sauces) both reported in recent quarterly calls that they've had very strong sales in keto friendly products and are looking to expand this year.

The funny thing about WW to me is that my idea of it is that it's supposed to teach you how to eat for life. Once I realized it was the carbs and that bread and sugar were making me fat, that was all I needed to know to keep me from disgusting myself weight wise. Weight watchers seems to require so much discipline. I'm glad it works for some people, but it could never work for me. I eat whatever I want, as much as I want. I just don't eat bread or sugar.

Last edited by tess9132 : Thu, Feb-28-19 at 06:14.
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  #349   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-19, 06:10
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,370
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Does she follow that long list of Zero Point Foods? Is it still included? because it had a crazy amount of high sugar fruit on it. Even some of the Veggies were loaded with carbs. And egg whites...why bother.
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  #350   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-19, 06:18
tess9132 tess9132 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 873
 
Plan: general lc
Stats: 214/146/130 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 81%
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Quote:
Does she follow that long list of Zero Point Foods? Is it still included? because it had a crazy amount of high sugar fruit on it.
Not sure. She has some fancy program on her phone where she can scan the bar code on just about any packaged food and it'll tell her the points. She's very happy with it. I know she walks around with bags of carrots and celery sticks. She snacks all day.

ETA: And her adult son has lost more than a hundred pounds eating keto.

Last edited by tess9132 : Thu, Feb-28-19 at 06:42.
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  #351   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-19, 06:48
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,370
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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I checked as though signing up for new FreeStyle..OMG, now the list is 200!! Zero Point Foods (think it was 100 when introduced). Unlimited beans and bananas, not going to work for me. Good for the son

https://www.weightwatchers.com/us/a...oint-foods-list
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  #352   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-19, 06:52
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,147
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Paying someone to make you do the right thing might be an American cultural phenomenon. Just think of all the gym memberships, personal trainers, and, yes, weight management schemes that last about as long as it takes the individual to realize, "I'm not getting my money's worth." And whose fault is that? ALL that stuff "works" if the participant works it.

Aye, there's the rub.

There's a lot of conversation in Nutritionland about sustainability. Once a person learns the Point System of WW, will he/she keep doing it? I don't know. I hope the practice lasts beyond the payments. But paying is part of the incentive for people who think that way.

I've loved Diet Doctor since the beginning. I pay a monthly subscription so that other people everywhere can enjoy the privilege of learning about excellent nutrition for FREE. No ads. No products. I dearly hope that can go on.

The other place I make a contribution? Right here at Lowcarber. For one thing, that gets rid of the random ads. But in the many years I've been hanging out here, I've found so much encouragement, information, and friendship. If I were not living in the Realm of LowCarb (even just casually) I would miss this place.

Sustainability is about reward. The good feeling of keeping on keeping on. It's something money can't buy. Sorry WW.
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  #353   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-19, 07:34
tess9132 tess9132 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 873
 
Plan: general lc
Stats: 214/146/130 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 81%
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Quote:
Unlimited beans and bananas
Yikes! I didn't realize they were free foods! I know she was explaining it to us and was telling us that Reeses Cups (unlike most candy) are low points. This peaked my husband's interest but then she told us that their group leader or advisor (not sure how WW works) told them they couldn't eat Reeses if they were a trigger food. So my husband's sticking with the low carb.

I mean, is there anybody who needs to lose weight for whom a Reeses cup wouldn't be a trigger food? To me, this is why WW is unsustainable - all those available trigger foods. Maybe they're ok as an occasional treat for some people, but they're really not part of anybody's healthy daily eating plan. Incidentally, my sister in law has been down the WW road at least 4 other times. Each time, she lost significant weight, always returning to a healthy BMI, so apparently, it's not really sustainable for her either.

She was telling me though that she just can't give up the bread. Her son is eating steaks for breakfast, but she just can't imagine it. So long as WW works for her, I doubt she'll ever go keto.
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  #354   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-19, 07:47
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,851
 
Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 50%
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I caught a glimpse of a Weight Watcher's ad on TV a few days ago, with a bunch of people working in a kitchen, and it said something about how much weight they'd lost eating zero point foods, so apparently the zero points list is still going strong. Of course they were making big pots of pasta, gotta push the fact that you can eat grains on WW. (I've done a search - can't find a video of that ad to share here)


Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Does she follow that long list of Zero Point Foods? Is it still included? because it had a crazy amount of high sugar fruit on it. Even some of the Veggies were loaded with carbs. And egg whites...why bother.



I remember being very surprised that it wasn't just egg whites on the zero point list, but whole eggs as well.


I've said before that doing LC would be possible using the zero points list, as long as you stuck to the lowest carb options on the list, and used ALL of your points for fat. It wouldn't work for hard core keto, because you'd need to seriously limit your consumption of zero point LC friendly foods to stay low enough, the points you're allowed would still limit your fat intake too much to make it ideal for keto, and your proteins would still be limited to the extremely low fat choices on that list. It would still be doable for LC though.

But why pay for their diet plan when you can't even use most of that plan, and would need to adjust how you do it so it's actually LC?
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  #355   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-19, 07:47
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 5,283
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkloots
Paying someone to make you do the right thing might be an American cultural phenomenon. Just think of all the gym memberships, personal trainers, and, yes, weight management schemes that last about as long as it takes the individual to realize, "I'm not getting my money's worth." And whose fault is that? ALL that stuff "works" if the participant works it.



My daughter owns three Planet Fitness gyms with her father. I just had a conversation with her about a week ago where she said that everything people get out of a gym could be gotten for for free at home with no gym membership. She also talked about how these really fancy gyms with very expensive monthly membership fees offer nothing important that her Planet Fitness gyms don't offer at only $10 a month. We tend to think that if it costs more it must be better but it ain't necesarily so. The one thing she did say is that the quality of the equipment in a Planet Fitness gym is much higher than the quality of equipment that people could get for home use if they want the machines, which themselves are not necessary.
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  #356   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-19, 07:56
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,851
 
Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 50%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
I checked as though signing up for new FreeStyle..OMG, now the list is 200!! Zero Point Foods (think it was 100 when introduced). Unlimited beans and bananas, not going to work for me. Good for the son

https://www.weightwatchers.com/us/a...oint-foods-list

Yes, those were on the list a year ago - they had 200 on it last year when it came out.



(Cut from a post on here, Jan '18)
Quote:

Apples
Applesauce, unsweetened
Apricots
Arrowroot
Artichoke hearts
Artichokes
Arugula
Asparagus

Bamboo shoots
Banana
Beans: including adzuki, black, broad (fava), butter, cannellini, cranberry (Roman), green, garbanzo (chickpeas), great northern, kidney, lima, lupini, mung, navy, pink, pinto, small white, snap, soy, string, wax, white
Beans, refried, fat-free, canned

Beets
Berries, mixed
Blackberries
Blueberries
Broccoli
Broccoli rabe
Broccoli slaw
Broccolini
Brussels sprouts

Cabbage: all varieties including Chinese (bok choy), Japanese, green, red, napa, savory, pickled
Calamari, grilled
Cantaloupe
Carrots
Cauliflower
Caviar
Celery
Swiss chard
Cherries
Chicken breast, ground, 99% fat-free
Chicken breast or tenderloin, skinless, boneless or with bone
Clementines
Coleslaw mix (shredded cabbage and carrots), packaged
Collards
Corn, baby (ears), white, yellow, kernels, on the cob
Cranberries
Cucumber

Daikon
Dates, fresh
Dragon fruit

Edamame, in pods or shelled
Egg substitutes
Egg whites
Eggplant
Eggs, whole, including yolks
Endive
Escarole

Fennel (anise, sweet anise, or finocchio)
Figs
Fish: anchovies, arctic char, bluefish, branzino (sea bass), butterfish, carp, catfish, cod, drum, eel, flounder, grouper, haddock, halibut, herring, mackerel, mahimahi (dolphinfish), monkfish, orange roughy, perch, pike, pollack, pompano, rainbow trout (steelhead), rockfish, roe, sablefish (including smoked), salmon (all varieties), salmon, smoked (lox), sardines, sea bass, smelt, snapper, sole, striped bass, striped mullet, sturgeon (including smoked); white sucker, sunfish (pumpkinseed), swordfish, tilapia, tilefish, tuna (all varieties), turbot, whitefish (including smoked), whitefish and pike (store-bought), whiting
Fish fillet, grilled with lemon pepper
Fruit cocktail
Fruit cup, unsweetened
Fruit salad
Fruit, unsweetened

Garlic
Ginger root
Grapefruit
Grapes
Greens: beet, collard, dandelion, kale, mustard, turnip
Greens, mixed baby
Guavas
Guavas, strawberry

Hearts of palm (palmetto)
Honeydew melon
Jackfruit
Jerk chicken breast
Jerusalem artichokes (sunchokes)
Jicama (yam bean)

Kiwifruit
Kohlrabi
Kumquats

Leeks
Lemon
Lemon zest
Lentils
Lettuce, all varieties
Lime
Lime zest
Litchis (lychees)

Mangoes
Melon balls
Mung bean sprouts
Mung dal
Mushroom caps
Mushrooms: all varieties including brown, button, crimini, Italian, portabella, shiitake

Nectarine
Nori seaweed

Okra
Onions
Oranges: all varieties including blood

Papayas
Parsley
Passion fruit
Pea shoots
Peaches
Peapods, black-eye
Pears
Peas and carrots
Peas: black-eyed, chickpeas (garbanzo), cowpeas (blackeyes, crowder, southern), young pods with seeds, green, pigeon, snow (Chinese pea pods); split, sugar snap
Peppers, all varieties
Pepperoncini
Persimmons
Pickles, unsweetened
Pico de gallo
Pimientos, canned
Pineapple
Plumcots (pluots)
Plums
Pomegranate seeds
Pomegranates
Pomelo (pummelo)
Pumpkin
Pumpkin puree

Radicchio
Radishes
Raspberries
Rutabagas

Salad, mixed greens
Salad, side, without dressing, fast food
Salad, three-bean
Salad, tossed, without dressing
Salsa verde
Salsa, fat free
Salsa, fat free; gluten-free
Sashimi
Satay, chicken, without peanut sauce
Satsuma mandarin
Sauerkraut
Scallions
Seaweed
Shallots
Shellfish: abalone, clams, crab (including Alaska king, blue, dungeness, lump crabmeat, queen) crayfish, cuttlefish, lobster (including spiny lobster), mussels, octopus, oysters, scallops, shrimp, squid
Spinach
Sprouts, including alfalfa, bean, lentil
Squash, summer (all varieties including zucchini)
Squash, winter (all varieties including spaghetti)
Starfruit (carambola)
Strawberries
Succotash

Tangelo
Tangerine
Taro
Tofu, all varieties
Tofu, smoked
Tomatillos
Tomato puree
Tomato sauce
Tomatoes: all varieties including plum, grape, cherry
Turkey breast, ground, 99% fat-free
Turkey breast or tenderloin, skinless, boneless or with bone
Turkey breast, skinless, smoked
Turnips

Vegetable sticks
Vegetables, mixed
Vegetables, stir fry, without sauce

Water chestnuts
Watercress
Watermelon

Yogurt, Greek, plain, nonfat, unsweetened
Yogurt, plain, nonfat, unsweetened
Yogurt, soy, plain
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  #357   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-19, 08:07
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,147
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Jean, I wish your daughter well with her fitness business. It's a good thing for humanity--at least the humanity that shows up. Both of my sisters are enthusiastic about Orange Theory. I went with them one time. The equipment is interesting--including those rowing machines with actual water in them--and apparently the workout variety and tracking schemes (electronic monitors) are inspiring in a techie sort of way. Most of all: my sisters are both excited about their results, and they are LOOKIN' GOOD!!

Me? My FREE basement workout space with the weights, the treadmill, the rebounder, and the video workouts works just fine. WHEN I WORK IT. In fact, my workout journals go back decades. It's the one thing about health I've always been on top of, more or less. But it isn't about weight loss. I hope I've been an inspiration to those sisters!

So, Calianna, all the foods on that list are considered FREE foods--no points? That leaves wheat products, rice, potatoes, and fat for points?? Is there a restriction on packaged food? Take-out (pizza, etc.)? Alcohol? I suppose the user of this plan has to make some important personal decisions to make it work.

Just like every other plan on the planet!
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  #358   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-19, 08:14
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,370
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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WW will not restrict packaged foods...that's how they make most of their money!

Diet Doctor's great response: https://www.dietdoctor.com/is-weigh...crushed-by-keto
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  #359   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-19, 08:15
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,851
 
Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 50%
Default

Assuming that more and more people go LC/keto and stick to it long term, I think WW is going to eventually need to consider at least adding a keto option, or the company is going to die a slow, miserable death, sticking to their determination that you can eat everything and still lose weight, that their plan is the ONE that works.


I also think that they'd do well to consider a line of LC/keto friendly products, because there's an awful lot of people out there who only do calorie counting diets because they can buy low cal/low fat meals ready made to comply with their diet. Offer them choices that fit a keto way of eating, and they'd find a whole new market with customers who don't want a lot of carby filler in their meals, but do want real meat with natural fats, and a few LC veggies.
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  #360   ^
Old Thu, Feb-28-19, 08:26
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 5,283
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkloots
Jean, I wish your daughter well with her fitness business. It's a good thing for humanity--at least the humanity that shows up. Both of my sisters are enthusiastic about Orange Theory. I went with them one time. The equipment is interesting--including those rowing machines with actual water in them--and apparently the workout variety and tracking schemes (electronic monitors) are inspiring in a techie sort of way. Most of all: my sisters are both excited about their results, and they are LOOKIN' GOOD!!

Me? My FREE basement workout space with the weights, the treadmill, the rebounder, and the video workouts works just fine. WHEN I WORK IT. In fact, my workout journals go back decades. It's the one thing about health I've always been on top of, more or less. But it isn't about weight loss. I hope I've been an inspiration to those sisters!



My daughter has been running her Planet Fitness business for over a decade now and it has been very successful. Of course she works very hard at it. Orange Theory is the expensive gym she talked about. Membership there costs $100 a month as opposed to what Planet Fitness charges, $10 a month. She also said people tend not to cancel their $10 a month charge even if they don't use it but when you are paying $100 a month you tend to cancel if you find yourself not going to the gym and of course most people who sign up don't follow through, only a very small percentage become regulars. People are attracted to the glitz and glamour and the high techy appeal of Orange Theory, according to my daughter, but in the long run you could get the same benefit at home or at Planet Fitness but without the stylish glitz and glamour of the latest thing and without the monetary outlay. Another thing my daughter mentioned is that she has intentionally opened gyms in places where the population is not that wealthy and can really use a gym that is affordable. She hopes she is doing some good in that regard.
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