In general I have always liked Oprah but that does not include her involvement and promotion of Weight Watchers. Investing in Weight Watchers has not been her smartest decision but in general I find her to be a person who has more integrity than a lot of celebrities but like all of us she gets it wrong sometimes.

Jean

I agree with you, Jean, about Oprah. I think she has the best of intentions and in general is seeking greater good in the world, rather than to increase her wealth.

I also think if she could get her head around LCHF, it could change her life, and maybe the direction of WW and its clients, dramatically.

It hurts me to see her clinging so desperately to her bread.

I did WW back in the purely low fat iteration of the program. I lost some weight on that diet but I was hungry and miserable all the time. I could not sustain it.

However; all things considered I do not see WW as the devil. From what I've seen the program has changed and now promotes a wider variety of healthier, whole foods. For some people that is good enough. Not everyone is in metabolic dire straights.

I try not to look at things purely in black and white. I see a sliding scale; a continuum. Some people do better in a structured program. They are not going to try to figure things out for themselves. For them, WW may result in an improved diet. For someone like me who ate on the saddest side of SAD, trying to improve my eating by joining WW would be better than doing nothing. Given what I saw on the new 'zero point' food list, I think that I would have a better shot at sticking to the program in its current form. I may not lose much weight on it and it may not have done much to reverse my metabolic conditions, but it likely would slow down the progression.

Of course the downside is the 'for profit' nature of any of these diet programs. Some are very expensive and promise a lot more than they can deliver. Perhaps WW is just wising up to the fact that most people on their program are not going to get skinny. I don't know the cost of the program these days, but it was a fairly low cost option when I was doing it back in the 90's. It was certainly cheaper than those mail order food programs. So while I'm not going to advocate WW for everybody, for many it would be a move towards better health. LCHF is what I needed to do to get healthy. But I do think that the current WW program would be an improvement over the diet that I ate that was pedal-to-the-metal to an early grave.

I am sure that there are people who would do better following Weight Watchers than continuing whatever it is they are presently doing but I believe that people deserve the truth, the best information out there, and weight watchers is not doing that. That bothers me.

Jean

I saw an ad on TV that showed skinless chicken breasts are now on the WW Freestyle Zero-Points list so I looked up the new list. Apparently the total points are lower, but you don't have to count lean protein, or most vegetables and fruit. You just count the fats, red meat, sauces, cheese, tacos, etc. that you eat with them. The only limitation is to stop when full, but I could eat two bunches of bananas before feeling full.

At least the list includes only real foods, most of which I eat (with generous amounts of fat), but all the fruits, starchy vegetables and legumes would start me craving and binging. I do occasionally have a bite or two of the things I've bolded when elsewhere, but don't allow them in my house.

Zero Points foods you don’t need to weigh, measure, or track:

• Apples
• Applesauce, unsweetened
• Apricots
• Arrowroot
• Artichoke hearts
• Artichokes
• Arugula
• Asparagus

• Bamboo shoots
• Banana
• Beans: including adzuki, black, broad (fava), butter, cannellini, cranberry (Roman), green, garbanzo (chickpeas), great northern, kidney, lima, lupini, mung, navy, pink, pinto, small white, snap, soy, string, wax, white
• Beans, refried, fat-free, canned
• Beets
• Berries, mixed
• Blackberries
• Blueberries
• Broccoli
• Broccoli rabe
• Broccoli slaw
• Broccolini
• Brussels sprouts

• Cabbage: all varieties including Chinese (bok choy), Japanese, green, red, napa, savory, pickled
• Calamari, grilled
• Cantaloupe
• Carrots
• Cauliflower
• Caviar
• Celery
• Swiss chard
• Cherries
• Chicken breast, ground, 99% fat-free
• Chicken breast or tenderloin, skinless, boneless or with bone
• Clementines
• Coleslaw mix (shredded cabbage and carrots), packaged
• Collards
• Corn, baby (ears), white, yellow, kernels, on the cob
• Cranberries
• Cucumber

• Daikon
• Dates, fresh
• Dragon fruit

• Edamame, in pods or shelled
• Egg substitutes
• Egg whites
• Eggplant
• Eggs, whole, including yolks
• Endive
• Escarole

• Fennel (anise, sweet anise, or finocchio)
• Figs
• Fish: anchovies, arctic char, bluefish, branzino (sea bass), butterfish, carp, catfish, cod, drum, eel, flounder, grouper, haddock, halibut, herring, mackerel, mahi mahi (dolphinfish), monkfish, orange roughy, perch, pollack, pompano, rainbow trout (steelhead), rockfish, roe, sablefish (including smoked), salmon (all varieties), salmon, smoked (lox), sardines, sea bass, smelt, snapper, sole, striped bass, striped mullet, sturgeon (including smoked); white sucker, sunfish (pumpkinseed), swordfish, tilapia, tilefish, tuna (all varieties), turbot, whitefish (smoked), whiting
• Fish fillet, grilled with lemon pepper
• Fruit cocktail
• Fruit cup, unsweetened
• Fruit salad
• Fruit, unsweetened

• Garlic
• Ginger root
• Grapefruit
• Grapes
• Greens: beet, collard, dandelion, kale, mustard, turnip
• Greens, mixed baby
• Guavas
• Guavas, strawberry

• Hearts of palm (palmetto)
• Honeydew melon
• Jackfruit
• Jerk chicken breast
• Jerusalem artichokes (sunchokes)
• Jicama (yam bean)

• Kiwifruit
• Kohlrabi
• Kumquats

• Leeks
• Lemon
• Lemon zest
• Lentils
• Lettuce, all varieties
• Lime
• Lime zest
• Litchis (lychees)

• Mangoes
• Melon balls
• Mung bean sprouts
• Mung dal
• Mushroom caps
• Mushrooms: all varieties including brown, button, crimini, Italian, portabella, shiitake

• Nectarine
• Nori seaweed

• Okra
• Onions
• Oranges: all varieties including blood

• Papayas
• Parsley
• Passion fruit
• Pea shoots
• Peaches
• Peapods, black-eye
• Pears
• Peas and carrots
• Peas: black-eyed, chickpeas (garbanzo), cowpeas (blackeyes, crowder, southern), young pods with seeds, green, pigeon, snow (Chinese pea pods); split, sugar snap
• Peppers, all varieties
• Pepperoncini
• Persimmons
• Pickles, unsweetened
• Pico de gallo
• Pimientos, canned
• Pineapple
• Plumcots (pluots)
• Plums
• Pomegranate seeds
• Pomegranates
• Pomelo (pummelo)
• Pumpkin
• Pumpkin puree

• Radicchio
• Radishes
• Raspberries
• Rutabagas

• Salad, mixed greens
• Salad, side, without dressing, fast food
• Salad, tossed, without dressing
• Salsa verde
• Salsa, fat free
• Salsa, fat free; gluten-free
• Sashimi
• Satay, chicken, without peanut sauce
• Satsuma mandarin
• Sauerkraut
• Scallions
• Seaweed
• Shallots
• Shellfish: abalone, clams, crab (including Alaska king, blue, dungeness, lump crabmeat, queen) crayfish, cuttlefish, lobster (including spiny lobster), mussels, octopus, oysters, scallops, shrimp, squid
• Spinach
• Sprouts, including alfalfa, bean, lentil
• Squash, summer (all varieties including zucchini)
• Squash, winter (all varieties including spaghetti)
• Starfruit (carambola)
• Strawberries
• Succotash

• Tangelo
• Tangerine
• Tofu, all varieties
• Tofu, smoked
• Tomatillos
• Tomato puree
• Tomato sauce
• Tomatoes: all varieties including plum, grape, cherry
• Turkey breast, ground, at least 98% fat-free
• Turkey breast or tenderloin, skinless, boneless or with bone
• Turkey breast, skinless, smoked
• Turnips

• Vegetable sticks
• Vegetables, mixed
• Vegetables, stir fry, without sauce

• Water chestnuts
• Watercress
• Watermelon

• Yogurt, Greek, plain, nonfat, unsweetened
• Yogurt, plain, nonfat, unsweetened
• Yogurt, soy, plain

bkloots;
Australia -- sometimes it feels very far away

Bingo! My thoughts exactly.

I agree that this is far, far better than many previous incarnations of WW, if for no other reason than the fact that those are all real foods. If people ate that way to begin with, most of them would not have gained weight to begin with.

[Although I take exception to all the non-fat dairy and skinless, fat free poultry on the list - there's a reason God (or nature, if you prefer) provided fats with those foods, and we would do better to eat them with their natural fats the majority of the time.]

If someone doesn't have a great deal of weight to lose and is not already showing serious signs of metabolic syndrome, plus does not have trouble controlling consumption of the carbier free foods on the list (or having the blood sugar spikes/drops from eating those food cause them to go completely off the rails and fall face first into a vat of chips or cookies), then concentrating on those foods, and using your points for extras (fats, sauces, cheese, a donut, or slice of pizza, or other treat food here and there) would probably work out fine, and be a long term sustainable diet.

On the other hand, if you have a lot to lose, or are showing definite signs of metabolic syndrome, or already have diabetes, then it would still be doable, but you'd need to seriously limit your intake of the carby options on the list (beans, root veggies, fruit), and avoid using any of your points for carby treats, opting instead to use points only to round out your macros with fats. In other words, do it LCHF.

But if people who have those problems understood the whole issue of macros proportions and how they affect the metabolism, they wouldn't need to to pay WW to tell them how to do LCHF, especially since that's not WW's message. Their message has always been that you don't need to give up your favorite foods to lose weight, just stay within your points - you can lose weight, be happy, and never need to give up your Friday night pizza, or Sunday morning donut.

A lot just has to do with how your individual body reacts to more than minimal carbs though, so with the increasing numbers of people in this country who have serious metabolic issues, I wonder how long it'll be before WW changes their plan yet again. I don't think they're ever going to completely get away from the points system and pushing low fat foods. It's just a matter of what will remain on the free list, how many points are assigned to foods not on the free list, and how many points each WW member is allowed.

Someone like me would eat from just that list, all day and wonder why I didn’t lose weight.

What is wrong with the company making money? That is how the world works. I never felt pushed into buying their products and the leaders were very proactive about everyones sharing nonweight watchers foods that where low or no points. That alone made it worth going to the meetings. For someone needing the accountability of a weekly weigh in and the support of a face to face group its a great low cost program. Not all programs will fit everyone that doesn,t make them wrong or bad. Back in the day low carb was considered a horrible program that would kill you quicker than any other way of eating so its disturbing to see low carbers reacting the same way to other programs.

People say they like the accountability, but I think it starts to become disordered eating, weight loss isn't linear and for some, it's really slow. I found myself starving the day of the weigh-in and then the starvation extended to 2 days before the weigh-in and then the binge right after the meeting.

I've been in 3 weight-loss groups that have admitted to doing the same thing.

In my opinion the problem is not that Weight Watchers is making money. The problem is rather what they are selling to make that money. I believe that for many if not most people their eating plan is at best ineffective for long term weight loss and at worst decidedly detrimental to their health. That does not negate the fact that some people find it helpful.

Jean

As I see it, the problem is that Weight Watchers promotes a program that does not work for a lot of the people in the program; creating a "blaming the victim" mentality while the group dynamics keep them just "trying harder" because others around them are doing is successfully.

Or, pretending to.

If Weight Watchers created an online quiz, something like "What is your metabolic type?" that would let people discover what is likely to work for them, and offer plans that ranged from low carb to low fat/exercise or what-have-you... I would applaud it.

Instead, it is One Size Fits All and people for whom that doesn't work feel like failures.

I also think the problem is that WW promotes a "blame the victim" mentality while the group dynamics keep them just "trying harder". I never went to a meeting but my sister did and I knew exactly how much she was starving and exercising only to lose nothing and there was no more "trying harder" that could help on the wrong plan. They blame it all on "emotional" eating, but changing my body chemistry/hormones by avoiding grains, legumes & dairy proteins eliminated the "emotions" of hunger & cravings. Sister quit WW and went on Atkins and found success.

I just saw Rob Lowe doing an Atkins TV ad.

Weight Watchers Get a Makeover.

Feature NYT Business Story, where you will also humorously learn some of the new point system. Bananas Zero Points. Vodka on Cereal! ...Ok WW got pushback on that one, and the DJ who uses that has only lost 26 pounds ...wonder why?
Mentions competition from MFP, no mention of Ketogenic or much about other trends. Author is not a health expert, approach is more lifestyle.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/14/...ner=rss&emc=rss