Why are we even having this conversation? It is a total waste of time and resources.

I know already you just HATE the truth, but the simple fact is that there are no deficiencies of any essential nutrients, or indeed of any non-essential ones, in an all-meat diet, no matter how long it is continued- period. All the so called 'science' in the known universe will not change that fact one iota, nor is there any imperative to 'prove' why it is so- (nor why it 'should not' be so).

Note, please: DDT and mercury are NOT used by an animal's body, the are toxins and therefore are accumulated, like pica- swallowed non-food items which may accumulate in the stomach. An essential oil is used otherwise it would not be 'essential', and therefore will be depleted in quantity while present in each animal in turn as it passes up the food chain.

The process of understanding how this sort of thing happens is called 'logic', an exercise you might find very useful to help reduce your need to post so much that is irrelevant .

I do not make 'many errors', I do however make statements which are contrary to some individual's strongly held mythic belief systems about diet.

This is very common in questions about what you should eat or not eat- a social condition which is very much like belief in a superstious religion such as those which claim someone could walk on water and 'rise again' from being truly dead. Unfortunately, while science can conclusively show that religious claims are bogus, it can be easily manipulated to support a lot of wrong ideas in diet.

Brain as a source for efa comment reminded me that I still have a tray of (6) frozen lamb's brains...Yum.

No, it is about an all-meat diet.

It matters not who follows it.

'Bear's diet' if you want to continue to call it that- even though I have made it manifestly clear it is a permanent nutritional lifestyle, NOT a diet, WILL work for everyone who follows it diligently.

There is nothing special or unique about my physiology in contrast to the rest of humanity.

I would welcome any and everyone else to contribute to this discussion who has a real, long term experience with the all meat diet, but I have not met any- so far.

I am sure they would tell us all exactly what I have been saying- Stef, even with his comparatively limited time on the diet, certainly did.

You do not have to put your hand on a hot stovetop more than once to learn what the inevitable results will be, nor do you have to have others do so to prove the validity of your experience, why does my example need to be 'seen as special'? Why is the factual situation regarding my personal experience so hard to accept?

'Where I GOT my ideas from?' Where indeed! Other than my induction onto the path from reading Stefansson's various writings, it all has come from my life, not from some pop article or 'research paper'. This of course lets all of YOUR knowledge out, since your ideas appear to only come from various exterior sources: Nothing originates with you.

The true situation is based not on defining the 'science' of how and why, but on whether or not an ordinary person such as myself would be as healthy as one on a mixed diet.

Referring to my stating the bald-faced obvious, as 'speaking gospel' (a disingenuous reference to the dogmatic, superstitious writings of mysterious long dead authors) is a bit much. I have been showing- by using positive language- that what I say has been tested over and over and over in my life. It fits in with some research other than the ones the objectors subscribe to, and has been found (by me) to be.... true.

The astounding truth, whether or not anyone wants to allow it, is that I am MUCH healthier and stronger than anyone I have ever met who was the same age as I at the time we met, and that includes thousands, none of whom came even close to having the kind of well-kept body I do.

I am using my real, life experiences and information I have found and collected over a great many years, more years than my critics seem to have even LIVED on this planet in fact (?...no respect for elders). My time and effort is being spent in an attempt to inform and assist others. I already understand that the chronic complainers who nit-pick every statement i make which stands in contradiction to their firmly held beliefs (NOT 'truths') are never going to follow nor enjoy this path to a healthy long life, so it really is of little value to any of us who do care to have all the 'static' around. (Once more, with feeling!)

I HAVE indeed posted some links, and they were very important ones, at that. I noticed no one commented after reading (you all DID read it, didn't you?) the one about insulin as the cause of atherosclerosis. This one journal article alone justifies adopting a zero-carb diet.

Now, please- can we get back to discussing important stuff?

No, a very 'human' idea, but it is not correct, the meat does not reflect the feed.

What the animal eats is not going to matter so far as nutritive value is concerned, so long as the animal was healthy. A plant may indeed be dependent on its nutrition, but the animals we use for food have the ability to manufacture in their bodies or with the aid of commensal organisms living in their intestines, many if not all of the nutritive substances they require which may fall missing in their diet. Food animals are herbivores, they live on feed which has the lowest level and format of organic-nutrient value on the planet- they are highly evolved, complex organisms which are specialised in converting low value feed into high value meat. Any proposal that the nutrient quality of meat is different due to what the animal is fed is only propaganda serving a special interest, like the organic farming mob. There is no nutritional difference between 'organic' meat and any other kind- except of course, the cost per unit to the buyer.

It really doesn't matter which red meat you eat, all are much the same other than texture and flavour. Likewise with fowl. It may matter with fish, they vary in a lot of ways, some are downright deadly poisonous. The flesh of a healthy animal is a complete food, it is not what they eat, only that they eat enough of whatever it is to thrive and be healthy. Variety in food is a human social-concept. A herbivorous animal will eat whatever plant of the specific group they are evolved to eat that is available unless or until that plant's natural protective toxins cause distress.

Sheep bison and cattle are grass eaters. Deer and goats however are browsers, and will eat almost any plant except grass. The problem with grain as food for the grass-feeding ruminants, is that the natural bacteria in each of the various 'stomachs' are not very good at digesting it. Feedlot cattle are fed a bacterial mix which replaces the normal flora with ones which can digest grain. I do not think this is a particularly good idea, but it in no way damages or lessens the nutritional value of the resulting meat.

Atherosclerosis: An Insulin-Dependent Disease? Nestor W Flodin J Am Col Nutrition 5:417-427 (1986).

There are some others. I have not had the time to find my complete file of pertinent articles amongst all the clutter this place has accumulated since the last time I needed them- perhaps as long as 15 years ago.

I understand completely as to what we are doing here, I enjoy all the real questions and contributions... I am criticising only those few who seem only to want to challenge every statement I make, make bold insistent statements in contradiction and demand to be shown 'scientific' proof in the form of published articles in order to accept my experience as fact. I am not a scientist, but I am an avid reader since age 2 and have spent in 47 years, literally hundreds and hundreds of hours in science libraries reading the literature on diet, metabolism and health. Most of what masquerades as 'hard science' is suspect- to be kindly, and some is downright useless. A precious few are true and very good. I did not learn what I 'know' about diet and the human from reading, although it is certainly helpful to find things written which confirm experience, but they are not in the majority- most say stuff I know for a fact is untrue.

I speak from a combination of reading and experience, about 5% the former and 95% the latter.

No, I don't think that any combination or lack of combination of meat is any less or more nourishing than another. To state this another way, you can eat nothing but prime fatty sirloin steaks, three or more times a day for at least ten or more years and have no problems whatsoever. I personally have not done this for longer than about 5 or 6 months, but it was just wonderful- every meal as delicious as the last, until finally the big stash (cryovac'd), bought at a ridiculously low price finally ran out. Variety treats the mind, not the body. It is not necessary in carnivory because any and all forms of meat constitute complete foods in and of itself.

Meat, that is, fat and lean muscle tissue- IS a complete food.

I think where you ran off the track was by transferring your social training to eat a lot of variety because of the low and incomplete food value found in the major portion of the mixed diet- vegetation. If you run the vegetation through an animal intermediary, this problem disappears.

I bought a big batch of strip loins (~15 lbs ea) very cheaply and that was what I ate until I used them up. Cheese? Not a major item in my diet. I have always used some cream and butter. As I have said, it matters not which kind of meat you eat, just do as you like or follow what circumstances may dictate. Don't worry the need for variety does not hold in the meat world.

I did not drink coffee until '69 or so, when I discovered boutique-roasted espresso. I began to roast for myself in '73. I gave the tinned stuff away back in the '50's when I connected it with zits, which I think were caused by the very stale oils in the tinned coffee, roasted literally months before sale in the market.

At room temperature roasted bean coffee ages to the point it is nearly undrinkable in about one week. If placed in the fridge as soon as it has cooled from the roaster, it is the same after two weeks as coffee kept overnight at room temperature- the next day after roasting it already is noticeably changed. it is not necessary to freeze it, just close it up and keep it in the fresh food compartment. Green coffee kept in an airtight container and in a cool place lasts for years- I have kept it as long as seven and it was great after roasting. Somewhat different in taste than when new, but very good- some might even say better.

I mentioned the 'new paper' on omega-3 oils already.

I have no idea what green coffee tastes like nor of any easy way to try it, it is a very firm seed holding only ~10% moisture. Partially roasted, or under-roasted coffee does not taste very good, IMHO.

'Green' coffee is a term for the raw unroasted seeds of coffea arabica or robusta. It is not hard to roast your own coffee, there are machines on the market which do an excellent job of it. I find that hot-air type popcorn machines are not satisfactory, however. The home roasters are of two basic types, the externally heated or stove top kind and the electric-turned an heated drum or electric hot-air/fluidised-bed type (this is similar to the above mentioned popcorn machine- but is built for coffee). I have not seen the glass-jar Siemens machines for a while, they were last sold under the brand name Sirocco in the US. The Alpinroast machine is a drum type similar in design to most commercial roasters, I know several people, including my son- who have this machine. Do a Google on home roasters. I have a few of the Siroccos and an old, small German made hand-cranked drum- originally electric with two 600w coils but which I later converted to lpg gas with a burner from a small Cont espresso machine. It holds about 900 ml of green and produces a bit over a pound of finished roast. Coffee swells to 1-1/2 times the volume and loses ~10% of weight (moisture) during roasting.

Trust me, it is really quite easy to roast your own, and you then always have very fresh coffee. It will cost at least less than half what the same bean sells for at retail- the retail coffee industry marks up prices to about 3 or 4 times the wholesale cost. This is outrageous and is due to the very in-elastic demand for coffee. Roasters discovered this back in the '70's when there was a severe frost in Brazil. Wholesale coffee prices went through the roof, but consumption remained dead stable, thus the prices have never fallen, although coffee world wide is usually produced well in excess of demand.

The finest boutique coffees, with the notable exceptions of Kona and Jamaican Blue Mountain, sell for about 2-3x the published price of Brazilian Santos, the benchmark coffee quoted in the financial page of most newspapers. You will get this price from any wholesale distributor so long as you buy a full bag, which is usually 60 Kg. Kona is packaged in 100 lb bags and Mexican in 88's. I am fond of PNG coffee, and the classic plantation there is Sigri. I buy one bag every few years, and supplement with smaller quantities of various kinds from wholesalers who will break bag quantities- there are few of these however. Some small roasters will sell you less than bag lots of green, but don't buy from them if they will not give you a much lower price than retail. You can find out the current wholesale price by calling an importer/distributor.

I do like fine Kona, and have actually imported several 5 kg lots of ExtraFancy grade directly- but it is still way too expensive to use for the daily cuppa. The Jamaican coffee is very hard to find, due to the Japanese practice of outbidding everyone else for the limited supply. Occasionally Starbucks wins a few barrels (Jamaican green is packed in small wooded barrels), but you can't tell one kind of their coffee from another after that mob has burned it up into a black, greasy mess. Real proper (Italian) espresso roast is a medium dark, dull finished brown, never greasy and never black like French roast.

I have ten coffee bushes (they are actually scraggly, multiple-stemmed shrubs, not trees), one 12 years old the rest 7, which produce a small harvest of very nicely flavoured coffee. Each and every coffee growing location around the world has a distinctive coffee. In Oz, most of the coffee is grown at too low an elevation for good body- arabica needs at least 750 m to develop proper acidity and body- we are at 900 m and have a northfacing slope, ideal as there is no frost in winter here.

Actually the difference between a light and a French roast is as short as one minute and does not significantly affect the caffeine content. This is another 'urban myth'. A darker roast may even arguably have some carcinogens from the burnt nitrogenous materials in it, in a similar fashion to the production of those found in tobacco smoke...Boiled 'Turkish coffee' like the Arabs drink has less caffeine than filtered, and both have less than espresso, but this is due to the combination of tannic acid (slow to dissolve) and caffeine (rapidly soluble), which produces insoluble caffeine tannate which precipitates out. Caffeine itself (much like aspirin- a semi-natural compound hated by the drug manufacturers since it is so effective but not patentable) has been shown to be of great benefit to the body, a mild mental 'alerting agent' (rather than a true stimulant like amphetamine). It also improves oxygen transport and athletic performance, as well as showing some anti-cancer properties. I would not drink coffee if it had no caffeine in it- the oils and other compounds in coffee cause a mild insulin reaction, Thus- consuming a lot of it is 'fattening' by default...

Yes, fish store mercury in the flesh, in the fat and in the liver, PCB's are stored in the fat and liver. Both contaminants are a serious concern. I try to limit my consumption of wild or farmed-in-the sea fish. I am raising fish in my large farm dam.

Of course, regularity is the hall mark of a carnivorous dietary regime. Constipation is unknown, unless you eat too much cheese, and looseness is due either to excess fat over your bile supply, or too much espresso. Once a day or less is usual, as the fecal mass is simply discarded body-originating waste, not dead bacteria and indigestible vegetable residue.

My remark on the 'new paper' in no way implied any thing like a criticism of anyone else mentioning it. It anyone is that sensitive to simple statements, then by all means, don't stick around, my posts are intended for people who genuinely are interested in the dietary regime.

I eat when I remember to do so, since I personally don't experience hunger. Any time is ok. I think it is good to eat in the morning, but my main meal is in the afternoon or early evening. I sometime have a 'lunch' and sometime not, I have eaten up to 6 small steaks in a day and as few as one large one. Your blood glucose in invariable unless you ingest carbs, and you very quickly digest and absorb your meat/fat. Eating schedules are not a big deal like it is when you eat a mixture of foods which tax your system's limited ability to process and digest. It is always best not to go to bed while still digesting food, an all meat meal should take around one hour or so. The '3 hour rule' is therefore more than adequate. I retire sometime between 9 and 11 and I prefer to eat my evening meal around 5 or 6... I rise around 6:30 to 7 and have a cuppa and a protein powder and cream drink. Heavy food at dawn is just not attractive to me.

I am an unrepentant empiricist, and am not very interested in statistics. I have to admit I haven't a clue as to what the USDA has to say. You know the old saw, however: 'Statistics don't lie, but statisticians do".

Correct, however, meat is fully absorbed and thus actually a zero-residue food.

50-60% fat by calories is ok. 80% is about max. If you can only find a sandwich shop, ask them for a plate just of whatever meat they have, like rare roast beef and perhaps some fired or boiled eggs and whatever cheese they may have. The only eateries I have been unable to find food at are vegan/vegetarian restaurants, and those fortunately are relatively thin on the ground.

Pemmican is a complete meal replacement in and of itself. I will post a complete guide to preparation next. Avoid anything commercial which claims to be either 'jerky' or 'pemmican'- the are damaged by the commercial food laws requiring the use of excessive heat and adding chemical preservatives, thus are really bad for your health.

The truth no vegan can ever accept is that ALL forms of life, whether plant fungus or animal are conscious. It is just that we animals are unable to communicate or 'hear' the consciousness of plants. Plants on the other hand seem quite able to do so with both other plants and animal in remarkable fashions. There is an orchid that not only looks exactly like a female bumble bee, but also smells like one, leading the males to attempt to couple with the blossom and in process getting the two pollen-masses (pollinia) stuck on their heads. The can't copulate with the flower of course, but then visits another blossom and deposits the load of pollen in a further vain attempt to mate. Since a plant cannot see or smell (or can it?), how could this ever have come about? A few clever scientists like James Backster have found plants do respond to threat, thoughts and music, by hooking them up to galvanic instruments.

I once communed with a great and ancient redwood tree in Muir Woods CA, while under the effects of a strong dose of DMT. Trust me, these giant trees at least are far more 'conscious' and transcendentally aware than any animal- including us. All food is derived from living things. There is certainly some compassionate value in the quick death a food animal experiences versus the way in which people treat food plants.

Grass (of various kinds) is quite different in structure and composition to the seeds of grasses, which is what all grain including corn (maize) actually is. The ruminant is specialise by commensal bacteria 'helpers' in its multiple stomachs coupled with re-mastication to digest grass, but not a large percentage of grass-seed. To force the animal to mange on a high intake of seed, the bacterial soup in each stomach or rumen must be replace by unnatural mixes of other bacteria. That this strategy is successful is self evident or the industry would fail. The animal builds its tissue from what ever is fed to it, and herbivore are capable unlike carnivores and most 'omnivores' to make up any missing bio-materials in their own bodies. Interestingly rats can somehow synthesise missing vitamins in their intestines, and then eat their own droppings to counter deficiencies. THAT is truly impressive. Rats, crocodiles, cockroaches, and ants will long survive on this planet Earth, and will be around long after humanity has joined the dinosaurs.

PEMMICAN- how to make the real stuff.

I HAVE made jerky and pemmican for 47 years. Avoid any commercial 'jerky' or 'pemmican'.

YOU have to make your own, but it is simple, really. The principle is low, controlled heat, no additives like salt or 'marinade' and very fresh meat and fat.

I OFFER the correct way to prepare true pemmican, based on the principles developed by the Native American plains people. It has been done this way for countless generations. I do not recommend making 'holiday pemmican' containing dried fruit- it willnto keep and has far too many carbs.

WE will use beef.

I RECOMMEND bottom round, with very little marbling- marbling makes drying slower, but while it may taste better as a partially dried, short lived and leathery jerky, it is counterproductive for making fully-dried jerky for pemmican.

THE RULE for drying jerky is use only very FRESH, NEVER FROZEN MEAT.

CUT into 1/8' slices/strips, ADD NOTHING.

DRAPE over rack, in oven- with door slightly ajar (adjust).

PLACE an incandescent light bulb of about 100w in the bottom and connect up through an adjustable thermostatic switch, with the sensor placed on the top shelf. Set to hold 104F/40C. Test with a good quality thermometer- jerky is going to be comparatively expensive to make, so you don't want to mess it up.

DRY only at precisely 40C (104F) no more, no less. Dry until dark in colour and very brittle/friable. The commonly seen 'leather-dried' jerky, while it might seem nice to chew on, will not keep very long without refrigeration, and cannot be used to make pemmican. Fully dried jerky is very tasty but is crumbly in texture, not 'chewy'. Store fully dried jerky in an air tight container, and check the smell from time to time for signs of deterioration.

DO not use marrow-fat, it spoils very quickly and will go rancid. If you use 'cod fat', that is,suet from the outside of the carcass it will yield a softer and perhaps nicer flavoured pemmican, but the hard 'kidney suet from around the kidneys will give a firmer and much longer-keeping pemmican, if that is what you are after.

RENDER the suet into tallow by placing 3/4" think slices on a rack in a pan in the oven at NO MORE than 250F. A higher temperature gives the tallow a burnt smell and taste and discolours the fat, lower temps take forever and may not properly dry out the tallow.

PROPER, long keeping pemmican is an even mix of dried lean and fat, 50/50 by WEIGHT (80/20 by calories). No berries or additives of any kind should be used, as they will cause rapid spoilage and are inappropriate if you are on a zero carb or very low carb diet.

WEIGH a portion of the crispy-crunchy totally dried jerky.

POWDER the jerky thoroughly. It will crumble to a powder very easily if it has been properly and thoroughly dried. It is best to process the jerky while still warm from drying to make sure it is very dry.

COOL the rendered liquid tallow to warm but not uncomfortably warm to your skin.

WEIGH AND POUR an equal weight of the warm liquid tallow onto the dry powdered jerky, mix and compress into a firm greasy mass- excluding all air.

PACK the fresh, soft pemmican into a dry container- fill until all air is excluded and seal tightly against moisture. It will keep at a cool room temperature, without refrigeration, for up to 30 years if it has been made with kidney suet/tallow. Perhaps less long if from cod suet. Jerky will not usually keep a year- even in a sealed jar. I doubt anyone will be able to store pemmican long enough for it to be a problem anyway- if you like it, unless you have enough ambition to make a lot of it.

TO EAT: Warm up some water (not hot), cut off a lump of pemmican and mash it in the water until you have a warm gruel. It is very greasy and hard to eat dry, but is very tasty as a gruel. To keep all the nutrients, it must never have been subjected to a temperature above 40C/104F. It will feed you as a single food, with no deficiencies in nutrition for a year or more, it even prevents scurvy.

JERKY requires added fat, to balance the protein. Unless you can add fat from another source, it is not good to eat it straight for very long by itself. Alone, lean jerky soon causes dysentery and debilitation from 'protein poisoning' (i.e.,'rabbit starvation').

I have posted my take on the nutritional equivalence of red meat, fowl, fish and eggs/cheese. Any and all red meat is a complete food. Probably fowl is too, but you need twice as much mass to equal. Fish may not be fully complete, depending on species etc, but that is only my conjecture, it still would require triple the mass of red meat to equal. So far as eggs and cheese, I do not consider them fully complete foods in isolation (or only combined with each other), and you would need quadruple the mass of red meat to equal anyway. Even with an assumption they were complete, you simply would have serous trouble eating the equivalent masses each day of the lower-value two...the question really is moot. I don't really feel that posing hypothetical questions is going to carry us very far down the path. I think that all the fiddling around and finding ever more exotic ways to question the validity of meat as a complete food and cast various forms of doubt on the 'values' is counter productive. If you just would stop all the futzing and eat, it will soon become evident. In fact from most of the posts it has done so in virtually all the writer's experiences, only those who are obstinately clinging to non-meat foods are not progressing or are progressing very slowly.

I really enjoy all the interest people are showing my information. I have a vast store of meat-related info, and am happy to share it with everyone. I do apologise for my occasional loss of patience, but after following this 'aberrant path' for so many years, I have heard it all already.

I have managed to find out many of the simple truths hidden down amongst the fine details- things not usually considered by the majority of people. Life is fractal in nature, and like the statement in the Kybalion, 'as above, so below'- almost every aspect of the truth in life can be found on each and every level, beautiful in its balance and amazing in its complexity. I think that is why I became an artist when I discovered quite by accident I had a native talent for making beautiful images from anything with my hands, without any training. I have never liked ugly art. Many fine artists make ugly, confronting art as a way of registering protest, but I can't do that. Protest can be beautiful. The songs of Bob Dylan in the '60's and Ben Harper today are perfect examples of protest in the form of beautiful art.

But I digress....

Sure.

hamburger, chicken, shrimp, fish...

Good.

bacon, ham...

Not good: salt and preservatives, poor nutritional values, no vitamins.

pot roast...

'Pot roast' is not a cut or kind of meat, it is a term for a dish made of very, very cooked/stewed, low quality 'stew' meat-with-vegetables. Not good, contains vegetables and the meal is too well cooked- most of the nutritional value is destroyed.

What about lamb?

Most cuts of meat are tender when raw and not very tough if blood rare, you should not be cooking meat any further than that.

round steak and a good cut of steak once in a while...

My habit, back in my ballet days when I had very little money to live on, around $50/week for everything including my 10 classes each week and $50/month for my tiny single apartment (room), was to always check the local newspaper for supermarket meat specials, and travel to each market to buy that cut. Since most people had (and still have) a severe fat-phobia, the meat on special was always trimmed very lean, so I paid only for my lean. I would ask the butcher on duty if he could give me some fat (for free) to use in cooking, they always did, and usually generously, so most of my daily caloric requirements cost me nothing.

and maybe an occasional liver with eggs, cream, coffee, olive oil, mayo and butter...

Mayo and olive oil are not real good for you, mayo is heavy with polyunsats and salt, with some sugar, and olive oil is mostly unsats. You don't need any vegetable oils to be truthful, stick to animal fat. Buy only unsalted (sweet cream) butter.

Do I need to repeat? red meat is a COMPLETE food, you don't have to have variety for your body, it only 'feeds' your mind.

for the rest of my life...would i do ok? would i be 100% healthy? Seriously, give me your assessment..because those are the foods i eat and have available to me for the most part!

I think you just need to be more creative in your search for meat bargains. I consumed up to 5000 cal/day while studying ballet and my cost of food was less than half that of my fellow mixed-diet students. I think I spent about $30/month, or one dollar a day- and sometimes less. Of course I wouldn't expect to see prices today like those back in 1960, but meat on special should be relatively low by today's standards. I even ate a lot of 'lamb breast'- at 9 or 10 cents a pound it being about half bone was not too bad a deal. I bought 'pot roast cuts' like 'seven bone' or shoulder at around 30cents/pound, it was not tough if cooked blood rare and actually had a very nice flavour, different from sirloin or rib eye. 'Flank' from the belly is very lean and tasty, it is good for making your own hamburger.

Your 'fear' is just your acculturation speaking from the depths of your unconscious mind, telling you, in your mother's voice, to 'eat your veggies' or suffer from some unnamed, perhaps unmentionable form of malnutrition. You can and should simply relax, get on with life and ignore this.

120 gm/day protein is low but ok but very (480 cal) low in energy. With only 50% fat, you are only consuming around 1000 cal/ day, it is the most extreme starvation-style diet I have yet heard of. You do not need to limit your calories UNTIL YOU ARE QUITE LEAN- in fact the more fat you eat, the faster you lose excess bodyfat... You can go up to 2 gm/day per pound of body weight in protein- common practice amongst body builders. You need to increase your fat to 60% or more, 80% is a common meat diet amount. At 50% you are not getting a daily amount of calories anyway I am not sure of the cause of your high BUN, but it may be you are not dumping your gall bladder completely. You should be aware that gall stones are one of the results of insufficient fat in the diet. 2000 cal at 50% fat needs 250 gm protein to balance. At 80% fat 100 gms will suit. Do your maths. Normal energy requirement is 1800 to 2500 cal/day, more if you exercise. My ballet years saw me consuming 5000/day.

Look up the percentage of fat in fish to find the figures. Many fish if bought whole have fat masses in the body cavity- which is always discarded by the cleaner due to 'fat phobia'. Buy only fresh whole fish which have deep black, velvety, glistening eyes, never cloudy or dull.

Nutrients are lost when meat reaches 104F. This is bleu. The trick is to eat the meat as raw as possible and only cook the very outer layer at a high temp for the very minimum of time to give a flavour, warm the middle slightly and sterilise the cut exposed surface- meat is otherwise sterile if not cut and opened to the air. I do not think any slow method of cooking was used in ancient days- meat was hard to get, and was eaten as soon after the kill as possible. Any uneaten meat- cooked or raw spoiled quickly. Spoiled raw meat is still safe to eat, spoiled cooked meat is not.

Europeans culture (make sour intentionally) fresh cream and make unsalted butter from it, it tastes different and will not keep as well as unsalted sweet cream butter.

Carb intake and low fat is the most likely reason for no loss. I have seen many who cannot lose past a certain point on 20 gm carbs/day. I don't see this happening on 5 gm or less.

'...Thinking a lot'.... Yes.

I think the problem here is too much thinking, and not enough acting- trust your body, not your mind, it has no acculturation. It is totally unnecessary to weigh, measure or analyse your food while on an all-meat diet. I have never done so in all my 47 years on the path.

Stefansson gave us this simple rule:...Choose a nice, marbled steak (for instance) with at least a 1/2 inch thick rim (cover) of fat. Begin by eating more of the fat than lean and eat until you feel you are losing interest in the fat, or have eaten all of it, then finish up by eating as much lean as you like until 'full'- choose a large steak- over one pound. Save the uneaten meat, if any, for a snack or part of your next meal. Soon the right sized cut of meat will become quite clear. Forget about all this fussy measuring, it will just turn eating into a tiresome chore when it should be a simple and joyful event. Other carnivorous animals don't use scales to measure their food, and the Inuit certainly didn't. Trust your body, it knows.

You see, calories are not important if you are 'obese' or over-fat, the body has a 'normal' fat percentage it will drop down to all by itself. Only if you wish to go lower than your natural set-point will you need to reduce calories to lose more BF on a high fat, zero-carb regime.

The key is to eat 'enough fat' and that is best determined while eating each meal. Measurements are pertinent only on conventional, carb- containing 'diets' which function as 'weight loss' regimes only by limiting caloric intake to less than your energy use.

Avoid peanut butter, it is toxic, very hard to digest (somewhat constipating), and and pretty carby- the oil is unsat-heavy. Coconut meat may also be carby, how much depends on the method of preparation from the seed- many propcessor add sugar. Why eat such stuff? It is not good to stress your insides this way with roughage.

Parasites are found in fresh water fish from the US great lakes, and from some European fresh water locations- the parasite in question is the broad or fish tapeworm, diphyllobrothrium lata. Some coastal pacific ocean species like salmon often carry the cisterciae (resting larval phase) of a parasite of seals, the so-called 'sushi worm'. Properly trained Japanese sushi chefs are trained to find and discard the cisterciae. Sushi worms cannot penetrate the human stomach but cause a kind of ulcer-like discomfort for a few weeks until it dies. I once got some from eating sashimi from the fatty belly part of a salmon I had caught. Otherwise, all salt water fish if very fresh are good raw, as are most farmed freshies. We raise fish here in our dam. If you are in doubt, freezing fish destroys any parasites present.

I rarely use oils- perhaps some mac nut oil with butter for fish. I prefer animal fats. I see no problem with spice mixes, I use many of Peter Watson's brilliant ones. That said, a true carnivore LOVES the plain meat taste, and really needs little in the way of spices- it is just for the occasional 'entertainment' value.

Ok, here is another of my unique recipes- this one is for you egg lovers out there.

The -wich story. A ham 'sandwich' could be called a ham 'breadwich'. In this way you can construct various names for other meaty dishes by substituting something else for the bread covers.

Eggs and cheese can make two kinds of -wich, the cheese eggwich and the egg cheesewich. The eggwich has eggs on the outside, and is a hot dish- the cheesewich has cold poached or fried egg between thick slices of cheese, good for a bag lunch. We are going to describe how to make the first one, usually eaten as a hot lunch or brekky:

In an 8 in (20cm) skillet with butter (Scanpan Ceramic Titanium is best) on low heat, break three eggs and break their yolks.

Add a very light sprinkle of chilli powder (like Texas Gunpowder, which is dried jalapeña) and fresh grind on a little black pepper (don't over-do the peppers). Other spices can be experimented with, but the two peppers do just fine. Layer on thin slices of cheese, like cheddar, Jarlsberg etc.- enough to cover the eggs.

Break on top, two more eggs and break their yolks. Carefully see to it that the cheese is covered with egg. Add some more butter. Watch closely and when the bottom eggs are just jelled, carefully flip the mass over, cook for a short additional time and serve.

It will take some practice to get it right, but once you do, it is easy and a true delight. It is one of our favourites around here. Properly done, the melted cheese is nicely sealed between two layers of egg, with a pleasant colour on the outside. Kids love it.

In fact- everyone loves a cheese eggwich.

Melted cheese INSIDE fried eggs!

Must something here of value. Or at least, of interest.

FEW are those who are 'called' and fewer yet are those who are 'chosen'.

I can think of some on this thread who have tried, like Rob, and a few I no longer keep in touch with who also tried it for a while. I think my son Starfinder is honestly trying, he understands the carnivory of humans very well from his extensive veterinary training, but he still finds it hard, and is not always totally strict, like I am today - but on the path, falling off from time to time- just a little as I did. He is only 35.

Everyone who is truly interested in this lifestyle will have an uphill battle against their acculturation. This is compounded by all your friends and family who will go to any end to try to get you to eat as they think you should. This is social again. Never underestimate the incredible power of the human societal culture and everyone's early training, it is what makes us human, and different from all other animals. The only thing more difficult to alter than you early acculturation is your skin colour... Hang in there. If I could do it, anyone can.

Hey- Michael Jackson even managed to change his skin colour.... sort of.

Vitillago? A disease? Nonsense. Must be a brand name for a skin-bleach. All the rest of the Jacksons have very nice coloured skin.

I think what I said was that supplementation on an all meat diet was a waste of money- you do not need any. I said that if you DID take any, to be sure the strength was very low. Basically, every time I take ANY vitamin with B supplement no matter how weak it is, I piss yellow, showing that the body is rejecting it.

Rather than taking 'fish oils', just be sure to eat enough animal fats, they contain all the fatty acids of all kinds your body needs. Red meat/fat is a COMPLETE food. The reason you saw a difference before was most likely because you were not consuming enough fats.

Become comfortable with your food, and stop looking desperately for some excuse to alter the path, or find a supposed 'deficiency' which requires supplementation or frequent variety.

Pan MUST be small 7 or 8 inch MAX. The eggwich has to fit easily on a plate. The egg has to have thickness, which is why I use 5 ex-large. Try smaller sized eggs, or just 2 and 2. it is supposed to fill you up. Break the yolks and spread the eggs around on the cheese with a fork so the cheese is a completely covered by egg. Omelettes are whisked, and cook like a souffle, fluffy and bland- a totally different dish. You break the yolks and slightly stir them a bit on the bottom layer to make them lie down, and spread out the eggs you place on the top. Make sure the cheese layer stays flat as you add the slices, then the eggs will cover well.

Vegans are starving, and their body craves the meat-taste so much that they have to try to fool it. They are very unaware of the realities of life and living things: They oppose the humane killing of animals for food, but are quite willing to kill the more openly conscious plants in very cruel ways- and like to eat the plant's next generation- the seeds and fruit.

Please note: Fresh coffee is delicious BUT it is insulin releasing. It has the effect of giving you a feeling of fatigue after about 20-30 minutes. In some people it will prevent fat loss or cause a gain even on a zero carb diet. This effect is not caused by the caffeine. I think it may be the oil, but it has not been identified so far as I know, but I can verify that it does occur. I only drink a half-cup of cream-cappucino- early in the morning. If later on I feel like a bit of a lift, I take 100 mg caffeine in a tab, like Vivarin or No Doz, which does not make me tired later.

Slice suet (raw fat) into 1/4"-1/2" slices, lay on a rack in a roasting pan to speed the render. The bit left is called a 'crispy'. The resulting rendered fat is called tallow.

The indigenous people of both N America and Australia were primarily hunters, and only partial gatherers. Ask an Aborigine what is food, he will list all the animals that he knows are around and can be eaten, then stops. If you then ask if there is anything else, he will list all the various plants etc., the implication being that these things are only eaten when no animals can be taken. Both men and women will hunt, although the men rarely gather.

Amongst the old Inuit, long active lifespans like Amber's grandfather were common, and death seemed to come as a choice, rather than an accident. (Stefansson)

Sorry, close but no cigar: Cracklin's are the name of a specific item, pieces of (salted) deep fried pork rind (skin). It is a popular snack item in the American deep south (...zero-carb 'chips'?).

Crispies are the crunchy bits of greasy tryed-out connective tissue left over from rendering suet into tallow.

20 oz is a full Imperial pint- quite a hefty drink. Where can you find cups that size?

20 oz of which 'coffee'? Espresso: Short black? Long black? Weak/strong Melitta(paper)/Swissgold filter? Plunger? Turkish? Americano (latte using cream)?

My morning cuppa is half a 'double' size basket short espresso with steamed cream/water. Volume is about 6 oz. May eventually have to go over to strong Aussie tea w/cream, however....

Big gulps (sweet soda), perhaps, but two and a half (kitchen measuring) cups of coffee in one vessel? I am sorry... a bit hard to swallow(!). The last time I was stateside was in 02, and I never ran across that. However I would not put any weird trip past Starbucks. Who would want to drink cold coffee? A standard 8 oz cuppa gets a bit cool near the bottom, unless you chug it down- which sort of spoils the nice sipping time we all have with our precious, steamy fluid

Ooof! 7 eggs is too many- stick to 5 or even 4. A couple of tablespoons of butter (one on bottom, one on top) will suffice. (~1/4 of a 4 oz stick). Eggwichs are to be eaten immediately while nice and hot- they don't make it as leftovers.

Cravings are mental, not physical. They are your acculturation calling out to you. It is not due to carbs or stopping/lack of carbs. It does not have an 'expiry time. No matter what you eat or don't eat, these urges will only go away after you manage to totally accept the food you eat, i.e., what you know is the right food, is enough.

It reminds me of the story of Don Quixote and the windmill.

Dean, get yourself a small cup-top Swissgold filter. This is what I use on a short overnight trip when I don't want to carry along the little roadcase with my Rancilio Miss Sylvia (the very best small espresso machine made).

That much excess butter during cooking either stays in the pan or is spattered out. Very little is absorbed by the eggs. The residual butter left in the pan has been damaged by the heat. If you want more butter, add it on top- on your plate.

Butter is not a simple fat, it is a mixture of fats and waxes. It does not handle high temperature well, and decomposes. The byproducts of decomposition are hard to digest. This problem can be ameliorated to some extent by adding some mac-nut oil- when frying fish, for instance.

I don't 'need' coffee, I just like it- a nicely fresh-roasted creamy Americano (cappuccino with steamed cream/water mix) espresso drink tastes just lovely. I am quite happy with my half cup of a morning. I drink a lot of water.

I do like caffeine a lot, but it is easy to get it without coffee. Decaf coffee to me is as repulsive a concept as a vegan's lunch.

People eat and drink all sorts of things ...all day long.

"You must avoid following the Lead-Sheep at all costs."

"Only the Goat knows where he is going and what we should all eat/drink."

"Yes, I am a Capricorn, why do you ask?"

Caffeine is actually a very beneficial substance- See a previous posting about it. Aspirin is likewise good.

I don't 'need' anything, but I like a lot of things.

A good shepherd always puts a few goats amongst his sheep to lead them to the good pasture and safely back home again,

I cook with the fat of the meat being cooked.

I never eat anything from a pig, including lard.

Butter must be used at low temps, see earlier post.