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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Sep-14-21, 08:34
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
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Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default carbohydrate insulin model of obesity

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...10913135729.htm

Quote:
Statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) show that obesity affects more than 40% of American adults, placing them at higher risk for heart disease, stroke, type 2 diabetes, and certain types of cancer. The USDA's Dietary Guidelines for Americans 2020 -- 2025 further tells us that losing weight "requires adults to reduce the number of calories they get from foods and beverages and increase the amount expended through physical activity."

This approach to weight management is based on the century-old energy balance model which states that weight gain is caused by consuming more energy than we expend. In today's world, surrounded by highly palatable, heavily marketed, cheap processed foods, it's easy for people to eat more calories than they need, an imbalance that is further exacerbated by today's sedentary lifestyles. By this thinking, overeating, coupled with insufficient physical activity, is driving the obesity epidemic. On the other hand, despite decades of public health messaging exhorting people to eat less and exercise more, rates of obesity and obesity-related diseases have steadily risen.

The authors of "The Carbohydrate-Insulin Model: A Physiological Perspective on the Obesity Pandemic," a perspective published in The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, point to fundamental flaws in the energy balance model, arguing that an alternate model, the carbohydrate-insulin model, better explains obesity and weight gain. Moreover, the carbohydrate-insulin model points the way to more effective, long-lasting weight management strategies.

According to lead author Dr. David Ludwig, Endocrinologist at Boston Children's Hospital and Professor at Harvard Medical School, the energy balance model doesn't help us understand the biological causes of weight gain: "During a growth spurt, for instance, adolescents may increase food intake by 1,000 calories a day. But does their overeating cause the growth spurt or does the growth spurt cause the adolescent to get hungry and overeat?"

In contrast to the energy balance model, the carbohydrate-insulin model makes a bold claim: overeating isn't the main cause of obesity. Instead, the carbohydrate-insulin model lays much of the blame for the current obesity epidemic on modern dietary patterns characterized by excessive consumption of foods with a high glycemic load: in particular, processed, rapidly digestible carbohydrates. These foods cause hormonal responses that fundamentally change our metabolism, driving fat storage, weight gain, and obesity.

When we eat highly processed carbohydrates, the body increases insulin secretion and suppresses glucagon secretion. This, in turn, signals fat cells to store more calories, leaving fewer calories available to fuel muscles and other metabolically active tissues. The brain perceives that the body isn't getting enough energy, which, in turn, leads to feelings of hunger. In addition, metabolism may slow down in the body's attempt to conserve fuel. Thus, we tend to remain hungry, even as we continue to gain excess fat.

To understand the obesity epidemic, we need to consider not only how much we're eating, but also how the foods we eat affect our hormones and metabolism. With its assertion that all calories are alike to the body, the energy balance model misses this critical piece of the puzzle.

While the carbohydrate-insulin model is not new -- its origins date to the early 1900s -- The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition perspective is the most comprehensive formulation of this model to date, authored by a team of 17 internationally recognized scientists, clinical researchers, and public health experts. Collectively, they have summarized the growing body of evidence in support of the carbohydrate-insulin model. Moreover, the authors have identified a series of testable hypotheses that distinguish the two models to guide future research.

Adoption of the carbohydrate-insulin model over the energy-balance model has radical implications for weight management and obesity treatment. Rather than urge people to eat less, a strategy which usually doesn't work in the long run, the carbohydrate-insulin model suggests another path that focuses more on what we eat. According to Dr. Ludwig, "reducing consumption of the rapidly digestible carbohydrates that flooded the food supply during the low-fat diet era lessens the underlying drive to store body fat. As a result, people may lose weight with less hunger and struggle."

The authors acknowledge that further research is needed to conclusively test both models and, perhaps, to generate new models that better fit the evidence. Toward this end, they call for constructive discourse and "collaborations among scientists with diverse viewpoints to test predictions in rigorous and unbiased research."

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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Sep-14-21, 09:57
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,428
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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The list of authors is pretty darn interesting. Eric Westman and Walter Willett, David Ludwig and Chris Gardner, some interesting pairings! Imagine the zoom call with those 18 finalizing one conclusion. Yahoo had some mainstream press on it, maybe there is more now: https://www.yahoo.com/now/more-exer...-090256453.html

Last edited by JEY100 : Wed, Sep-15-21 at 03:38.
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Sep-14-21, 10:22
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
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Interesting seeing Chris Gardner's name, last time I saw him he was talking about food quality, whether low carb or low fat, rather than preferring one over the other. I guess that can still fit in the insulin part of the idea, since food choices, carby or not, still affect fasting insulin (and even postprandial insulin will be lower for a lot of people with a low fat versus a mixed meal).
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Sep-14-21, 11:04
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
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Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
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"During a growth spurt, for instance, adolescents may increase food intake by 1,000 calories a day. But does their overeating cause the growth spurt or does the growth spurt cause the adolescent to get hungry and overeat?"

Having raised two teens......the extra eating came in waves......not a constant over eating as Lusting put it. Each was driven to stuff their tummy like they were starving.....a sure sign a growth spurt had arrived.

My boys are thin trim atypical teens. Not overweight, not obese. So overeating in the typical obese sense doesn't fit these two.

My youngest stopped growing at an early age. And tended to skip breakfast. Making up for it in other meals. My oldest weighs the same as his brother, but 4 inches taller. He too has stopped growing, but puts away a pile of food . ( Now he is at college....will he put on the freshman fifteen? Hope, so, he needs to pinch more than 1/2 inch. Lol)

IMHO, kids eat when driven. My oldest would grow in height but his weight didn't budge much for all he ate. He would thin out a bit, then play catch up.

Just my experience with two boys now 17 and 19.
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Sep-14-21, 13:44
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bevangel bevangel is offline
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Posts: 2,312
 
Plan: modified adkins (sort of)
Stats: 265/176/167 Female 68.5 inches
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Progress: 91%
Location: Austin, TX
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For those with an academic turn of mind, here's a link to the paper itself... The Carbohydrate-Insulin Model: a physiological perspective on the obesity pandemic

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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Sep-15-21, 03:25
Benay's Avatar
Benay Benay is offline
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Plan: Protein Power/Atkins
Stats: 250/167/175 Female 5 feet 6 inches
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Progress: 111%
Location: Prescott, Arizona, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bevangel
For those with an academic turn of mind, here's a link to the paper itself... The Carbohydrate-Insulin Model: a physiological perspective on the obesity pandemic



Thanks Bev
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Sep-15-21, 03:43
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,428
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Last edited by JEY100 : Wed, Sep-15-21 at 03:55.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Sep-15-21, 08:29
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,428
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Long opinion piece by Gary Taubes in Stat News:
https://www.statnews.com/2021/09/13...nce-of-obesity/
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Sep-15-21, 08:47
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
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Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
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Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
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I totally agree (from a lay-person's perspective).

I also read that Insulin is known as the "Killer Hormone" and although it is needed to metabolize carbs, it also damages your cells while it is working.

I couldn't remember where I read that. A 'net search turned up this article which explains a bot about

Quote:
What you likely haven’t been told by your doctor is that elevated insulin is one of the primary causes of heart disease as well as diabetes, osteoporosis, cancer, angina, elevated triglycerides and numerous other health conditions.


Quote:
Doctors, dieticians and nutritionists who recommend a high carb, low fat diet for everyone will produce an insulin nightmare for many people. It makes no sense to me whatsoever, that grain based carbohydrates and starches are recommended to diabetics, “just as long as they get enough insulin.” This is chaotic becasue of the fact that the problem is insulin.

As Dr. Rosedale puts it: “This is much like whipping a horse to run faster at the end of a race; it runs faster for a little while, but if you keep doing it, it collapses and dies. So too do the islet cells that manufacture insulin in the pancreas die when drugs, nay doctors, whip them to keep producing more insulin when they are tired and sick.”


https://metabolichealing.com/elevat...he-real-killer/
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Sep-15-21, 12:25
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Posts: 14,674
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
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Progress: 129%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Long opinion piece by Gary Taubes in Stat News:
https://www.statnews.com/2021/09/13...nce-of-obesity/


Thanks, excellent stuff. If you are going to stack the two paradigms against each other, one has far more real evidence.
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, Sep-15-21, 14:30
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,764
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Thanks, excellent stuff. If you are going to stack the two paradigms against each other, one has far more real evidence.
But the one that has the real evidence doesn't make the medical companies billions of dollars every year.
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Sep-16-21, 04:12
Benay's Avatar
Benay Benay is offline
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Posts: 876
 
Plan: Protein Power/Atkins
Stats: 250/167/175 Female 5 feet 6 inches
BF:
Progress: 111%
Location: Prescott, Arizona, USA
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I had to laugh when I read this piece you posted Jey
They "proved" the insulin hypothesis was wrong because they did a 2 week study on people. Sigh

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/ar...arbs-in-obesity
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Sep-16-21, 08:06
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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My big problem isn't with people disproving the mechanism, or thinking they have--it's when the original observation is thrown out as well. Original observation--just telling people to avoid carbohydrate is often enough of an intervention to cause weight loss, for some people it solves their overweight problem entirely.

And yeah, two weeks--people have hardly even adapted to the new diet by then. Lots of times I've tried something, like an intermittent fasting protocol, and been less hungry the first little while, lost weight--and then sort of adapted, appetite expanded and it stopped working.
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Sep-16-21, 08:43
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bkloots bkloots is offline
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Posts: 10,150
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Here we go again, right? I skimmed the Taubes piece, which looked like an excerpt from one (or all!) of his previous books on the subject. I'm already a believer, so nothing new there.

I also read the article in Medical News Today--the one with the 2-week mouse study that "disproves" the carbohydrate-insulin hypothesis. I might look a bit mousy in the morning, but I am not a mouse.

I think it's crazy that they call LCHF "too simplistic" when the calorie balance idea is, as Taubes describes, a ridiculous tautology: "You get fat because you eat too much" is the equivalent of "you get drunk because you drink too much." Doesn't explain much, does it?

After twenty years of N=1 experimentation, I've not only learned what works for ME, I've also learned that it changes. I began with original Atkins. I maintained for several years with basic low-carb. I moved to LCHF for a while, and then it was called Keto. For sure, in periods where I fell off plan, I put on fat. But not because I ate "too much." I ate the wrong things.

As of now, I've learned that high fat isn't the best option for me. And alcohol is definitely out. But what I've been doing for two decades has grooved my swing: I know what to eat, and I like what I eat.

What's astonishing now is that I'm consuming way fewer calories than I ever thought I could and still be completely satisfied with everyday eating.

I HATE counting calories. But calories are still part of the complexity of weight management. The difference is between, say WW and its punishing reduction of calories and LC which allows a range of foods that fulfill appetite.

It's pretty amazing what eliminating sugar and starchy foods can do to make room for good stuff like mayo, bacon, full-fat dairy, veggies with butter and/or dressing, etc. Bon appetit.
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  #15   ^
Old Thu, Sep-16-21, 09:56
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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If you read into the ketogenic diet for epilepsy, look for mechanisms of action. You'll find--direct effects of ketones. Effects of medium and short chain fatty acids that change when somebody is on a ketogenic diet. Effects of the ketogenic diet on essential fatty acid levels in the brain. Effects of the ketogenic diet on sodium and potassium channels. This is just top of my head, there's a lot more. Thing is, there's reasonable argument for lots of different routes by which it might be helpful. I don't think there has to be one over-arching explanation. Ketogenic metabolism is different enough from a more glucose-based metabolism--there's more than one point where things can go wrong with glucose metabolism, so it makes sense for there to be more than one mechanism of action when trying to sidestep much of it with a ketogenic diet. Appetite and bodyweight is also a complex system. Our body has to keep track of fat, carbohydrate and protein status and appetite(s), when a low carb--or even a low fat--diet works, it actually makes sense to me that there might be different mechanisms of action in different people.
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