I been on vacation this week and doing alot of thinking, again, I am not out to offend anyone, but I am wonder other peoples thoughts on this...

All things being equal, (meaning a person is completely healthy, no diabetes, or other medical problems) if calories are really the only thing that is proven (as far as I read anyway--and I have read alot) to work in weight loss really, and veggies and fruits are low calorie, then why would someone want to eat say...a large serving of meat with lots of calories, but not a large serving of say...strawberries with fewer calories.

What I am trying to say is, if the bottem line is calorie in v.s. calorie out, then why not just eat a low calorie diet and forget all the carb counting, fat counting, etc, etc....

With a name like NO CARB KAT, I have to wonder exactly why you are here?

LL

Because, after eating a carby, low calorie meal, one is hungry again soon after. And that means, more calories are eaten soon after.

A fatty meal, for someone in ketosis, is satisfying for hours and hours - so fewer calories are eaten overall..

Think about it. Most of us suffer from Insulin Resistance, that's why a lot of people can't loose weight. You might want to read up on it if you're not too familar with this condition that's more common than one would think.

If you're having trouble loosing weight, due to your body being Insulin Resistant, and you put more sugars in your body...is it going to burn it up..NO...it's going to store it because the fat stores are already full if not in the process of it.

If you put mostly protien in your body, it's burnt up. Eating lower carbs forces your body to then turn the fat that's stored into energy. If you merely put carbs in it, it burns those first and stores what isn't used. Which with the recommended daily allowance of breads, pastas, what have you, being 6-11 servings, means the body very rarely burns up all those carbs, thus..it stores the rest.

When you eat lots of carbs, your body brings in the insulin to change it into sugar, but when your body has so much carbs to work on, you can also get a sudden sugar drop after that sugar high. The reason we even get hungry is because the blood sugar level drops. It's the drop in the blood sugar that makes the body want something else to eat in order to bring the blood sugar back up. Even a dietician will tell you, that if you want to stabolilze your blood sugar better, eat more protien and less carbs.

Honesty, when people say they cannot loose weight no matter what they do, it usually means their body literally CAN'T loose the weight. Normally due to the hormone insulin.

If you eat low carb long enough your body fixes the insulin resistance problem. Hense, this isn't just a diet for most of us..it's kind of "cure" an alternative treatment. For me, and a lot of other people, it's eased up medical conditions.

And remember, not everyone's body is the same, we're not all cookie cutter people. So, why should all diets have to be the same? Each body is made up different chemically, so we have to choose the diet that best suits our bodies needs.

>>"if calories are really the only thing that is proven..."

It isn't. It's not proven, it's assumed. Calories only really work in a bunsen burner. The human body has too many factors that affect metabolism. A few examples: someone with a thyroid disorder can gain or lose weight even if they don't change their caloric intake. Someone who consumes very few calories will have their metabolism become much lower. And, of course, someone controlling their carbohydrate intake can cause a lot of their calories to be wasted in the form of ketones (which can't be stored.)

>>"...a large serving of meat with lots of calories, but not a large serving of say...strawberries with fewer calories."

If the meat makes them satisfied while the strawberries make them hungrier, it sounds like a good choice to me. Personally, I couldn't eat a "large" serving of meat, anyway. If you're referring to induction, during which time fruit is a no-no, that's mainly to retrain your brain and your body to burn fat. There's no reason not to eat them later on.

"why not just eat a low calorie diet and forget all the carb counting, fat counting, etc, etc...."

Because it leaves you seriously unsatisfied.

First of all, a gram of protein has no more calories than a gram of carb; they are both equal calorically. What they are not equal in is things that your body needs to build, repair and maintain itself; essential amino acids and essential fatty acids. Satiation is also important. If I eat 4 oz. of strawberries, I will likely be hungry again fairly soon. If I were to eat 4 oz. of chicken or steak, I will stay satisfied much longer. Pair that with a good size serving of broccoli or another low glycemic vegetable and I likely won't get hungry again until it's time for my next meal and I've provided my body with much better conditions to function than if I had eaten only vegetables or fruit without any fats or protein.
Something else that hasn't been mentioned is that low carb is not strictly meat, at least not if you're following the plan correctly. A good deal of vegetables are also allowed as well as some low glycemic fruits. Many plans allow fruits such as berries right from the beginning. Even Atkins allows fruits (although a lot of people don't think of them as fruits) during induction such as tomatoes, avocados, cucumbers and olives.
The calories in/calories out theory has definitely not been proven. As a matter of fact, a recent study left scientists scratching their heads as the low carb group averaged 300 calories more per day and still managed to lose an equal amount of weight (actually a bit more) as their high carb/low cal counterparts.

Fat calories are more filling than sugar calories, mainly because they are digested much more slowly.

If you eat a lot of sugar calories at once, it hits your body quickly, and your blood sugar will get high. Your body will release insulin to prevent any damage from the high blood sugar, and the insulin turns the extra sugar into stored body fat. Before long, you've either stored the energy or used it, and you need more, so you start to feel hungry.

You can do without eating, dealing with the hunger, and trying to force your body to take the stored energy out of the new fat cells, or you can do what most do, which is eat.

OR you can eat a lot of fat calories, which will enter your system more slowly, letting you use them as they arrive. You have a longer-lasting source of energy, and you can go longer without eating.

Since you're well read, I assume you've read the recent studies that show that a low carb diet lets you lose weight faster than a low fat diet does? On the same number of calories! There's a lot more to it than calories-in/calories-out.

Original poster, low calorie diets are quite successful under a few circumstances: sufficient protein, sufficient vitamins and minerals, and sufficient essential fatty acids. Unfortunately, they are not terribly filling and most people don't last very long. Low carb on the other hand, is generally quite filling and most people are able to eat until satisfied and still are eating hypo-caloric and losing weight.

If you don't get enough protein (anybody been on an ultra low fat diet - hard to get enough protein!) your body will start to catabolize itself because it is not getting the sufficient materials to maintain itself and your metaolism will slow way down.

Carb counting, fat counting, you're right, it matters most what works for you. For the people on this forum, they tried low fat and couldn't get it to work. Low carb is what works for them. Also note a lot of low carbers do track calories because you still have to eat less to lose weight. Some low carbers think it is magic, it is not.

Even if one is not insulin resistant, a high carb diet will cause an insulin spike. IMHO eat in a manner that will keep your insulin under control. I work with people who will have a spike in their insulin and they will become shaky and hunt out food to eat. This food is generally of the carby presuasion and their urge for food will rebound. If you are going to play games with your insulin levels then it will be very difficult to not overeat them calories. Protein and fat, actually, is the answer to keep that under control not more carbs. I think the low carb diet is something that outsiders think are odd. But there are many who just eat a good healthy balance of proteins, fats and veggies that are low in carbs. We are healthy, our doctors tells us so.

Oh, one other thing, I have read some of the posts and see that you are well-read. You have read that obesity in America increased dramatically when low-fat diets became popular?

I don't mean to be argumentative, but the low-fat craze was a result of obesity increasing - not BECAUSE of it. OBesity has been increasing for over 2 decades and the first thinking was to reduce calories. I just read that from ACE Fitness plus I've read it elsewhere, so I just wanted to correct that incorrect line of thought. But regarding carbs, all diets discourage sugary foods like cookies, cakes, donuts, etc., but I know few that discourage fruits. I still eat as much fruit as I can and it hasn't hurt my weight at all...

Jimjam: I don't mean to be argumentative, but I didn't read about low-fat diets like you did, I was around when they started and everything else that went with the low-fat craze and that was more than 30 years ago. In fact, I bought into the low-fat hype about 20 years ago and it contributed to my obesity. Trust me, low fat dieting did not decrease obesity stats, it increased them.

BTW I am on a low-carb plan called NeanderThin. I can eat fruit.

That is generally correct, the low fat fad in the 80s and 90s certainly saw a connection to increased obesity. What is most to blame is increased overall caloric consumption and decreased caloric expenditure.

What the facts are that eating a low fat sub-maintenance diet, you will lose weight. Period. This has been proven with any method of eating including low fat, low carb. Low fat diets fail because it is hard to maintain that diet. It is too easy to cheat on "free" low fat foods.

The true merit of a way of eating is: are you hungry? are you getting sufficient nutrients and protein? is your health improving? If so, go for it regardless of low fat or low carb.

Which coincides nicely with when low fat really began to take hold and low fat/fat free products started literally appearing everywhere (early 80's).

I have seen studies that say a calorie is a calorie, and then i have seen the ones that say the opposite. All I can really go by is personal experience. 2 years of Low cal WW,1700 calorie-a-day diet: no weight loss and continual sense of starvation vs. Low carb/Atkins at about 20 carbs and 1800 cal-a-day for 6 months: over 100 pounds off and no feelings of starvation. Seems pretty simple to me.