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  #1   ^
Old Mon, Jan-28-08, 02:31
ttlaitin ttlaitin is offline
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Default Vitamin D Supplements Considered Harmful?

Quote:
Vitamin D Deficiency Study Raises New Questions About Disease And Supplements

Low blood levels of vitamin D have long been associated with disease, and the assumption has been that vitamin D supplements may protect against disease. However, this new research demonstrates that ingested vitamin D is immunosuppressive and that low blood levels of vitamin D may be actually a result of the disease process. Supplementation may make the disease worse.

In a new report Trevor Marshall, Ph.D., professor at Australia’s Murdoch University School of Biological Medicine and Biotechnology, explains how increased vitamin D intake affects much more than just nutrition or bone health. The paper explains how the Vitamin D Nuclear Receptor (VDR) acts in the repression or transcription of hundreds of genes, including genes associated with diseases ranging from cancers to multiple sclerosis.

"The VDR is at the heart of innate immunity, being responsible for expression of most of the antimicrobial peptides, which are the body’s ultimate response to infection," Marshall said.

"Molecular biology is now forcing us to re-think the idea that a low measured value of vitamin D means we simply must add more to our diet. Supplemental vitamin D has been used for decades, and yet the epidemics of chronic disease, such as heart disease and obesity, are just getting worse."

"Our disease model has shown us why low levels of vitamin D are observed in association with major and chronic illness," Marshall added. "Vitamin D is a secosteroid hormone, and the body regulates the production of all it needs. In fact, the use of supplements can be harmful, because they suppress the immune system so that the body cannot fight disease and infection effectively."

Marshall's research has demonstrated how ingested vitamin D can actually block VDR activation, the opposite effect to that of Sunshine. Instead of a positive effect on gene expression, Marshall reported that his own work, as well as the work of others, shows that quite nominal doses of ingested vitamin D can suppress the proper operation of the immune system. It is a different metabolite, a secosteroid hormone called 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D, which activates the VDR to regulate the expression of the genes. Under conditions that exist in infection or inflammation, the body automatically regulates its production of all the vitamin D metabolites, including 25-hydroxyvitamin D, the metabolite which is usually measured to indicate vitamin D status.

Vitamin D deficiency, long interpreted as a cause of disease, is more likely the result of the disease process, and increasing intake of vitamin D often makes the disease worse. "Dysregulation of vitamin D has been observed in many chronic diseases, including many thought to be autoimmune," said J.C. Waterhouse, Ph.D., lead author of a book chapter on vitamin D and chronic disease.

"We have found that vitamin D supplementation, even at levels many consider desirable, interferes with recovery in these patients."

"We need to discard the notion that vitamin D affects a disease state in a simple way," Marshall said. "Vitamin D affects the expression of over 1,000 genes, so we should not expect a simplistic cause and effect between vitamin D supplementation and disease. The comprehensive studies are just not showing that supplementary vitamin D makes people healthier."

Journal reference: Marshall TG. Vitamin D discovery outpaces FDA decision making. Bioessays. 2008 Jan 15;30(2):173-182 [Epub ahead of print] Online ISSN: 1521-1878 Print ISSN: 0265-9247 PMID: 18200565


http://www.sciencedaily.com/release...80125223302.htm
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Jan-28-08, 04:06
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ojoj ojoj is offline
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Does this mean we can all go out in the sun again now then??
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  #3   ^
Old Mon, Jan-28-08, 05:28
kneebrace kneebrace is offline
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Intriguing Ttaitlin. The research seems to indicate that D3 ingested in food is immunosuppressive. Seems a bit odd. Humans have been ingesting D3 in food for millions of years. You'd think we would have developed metabolic pathways to make it beneficial.

Stuart
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  #4   ^
Old Mon, Jan-28-08, 07:23
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girlgerms girlgerms is offline
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I wonder what supplements were ingested: whether it was plain old cod liver oil or something more synthetic?
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  #5   ^
Old Mon, Jan-28-08, 07:35
eryalen eryalen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ojoj
Does this mean we can all go out in the sun again now then??

I have trouble finding any sunshine to go out in this time of year.
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  #6   ^
Old Mon, Jan-28-08, 08:04
ttlaitin ttlaitin is offline
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the claim might have some validity, if D-vitamin can be considered a hormone: seems logical that the external source of a hormone would interfere with the bodies natural hormone production, since the body normally regulates hormone levels quite accurately.

I've never examined any D-vitamin studies closer: do we have good evidence that supplements are good for you?

living in a dark country, it would be nice to know whether to spend my money on supplements or on a trip to the equator..
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, Jan-28-08, 09:45
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
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I think there is is a lot of evidence that vitamin D supplementation and even sun, once autoimmune diseases are present and severe can aggrevate and escalate those diseases; Lupus comes to mind.

Vitamin D or sun exposure in a person with Lupus can trigger more severe outbreaks and symptoms for sure. Vitamin D triggers and supports an immune response; but in those with autoimmune diseases the immune response is broken and has turned on its host. So, the vitamin D/sun exposure just worsen conditions and triggers more autoimmune events/outbreaks.

JMO, I think the premise is wrong. Just because, once you're in the disease state where vitamin D supplementation or sun exposure aggrevates the situation doesn't mean that supplementation/exposure caused the situation in the first place. Nor does it mean that the disease itself caused the vitamin D deficiency.

What about all the studies where chronic low vitamin D status can predict the likelihood of the onset of a set of diseases years down the road? What about the studies where exposure to sun/vitamin D supplementation as a child precludes the onset of a set of diseases as an adult? What about the mapping that correlates incidence of vitamin D deficiency diseases with resident distance from the equator? And what about the cases where reversal of vitamin D deficiency or treatment with vitamin D has stopped and reversed vitamin D deficiency diseases and symptoms?

JMH non-scientific opinion, I think that vitamin D tells the body how to work properly. I think that when you have low vitamin D levels the body starts to misfire/make mistakes or errors in operation and diseases such as cancers may start to occur as well as symptoms of autoimmune diseases. I think that once you have chronic vitamin D deficiency the body stops working properly and the "normal" vitamin D mechanism may become broken. I think this is also the point where auto immune diseases become full blown.

At this point vitamin D/sun exposure is not only useless but harmful.

In my head is the analogy of a car's starter. When the starter is boken, giving the car more gas just floods the engine and makes the situation worse.

Another car analogy. Oil keeps the car running smoothly. You have to put enough in in order for it to do its job properly; a little isn't enough. In the process of doing it's job, it becomes dirty and used up. You have to routinely change the oil and top it up. Otherwise it gets so used up and dirty, the engine can seize resulting in broken car.

It's not that the oil wasn't trying to do its job. It's that you weren't doing yours. The job of keeping the oil at top strength by by having enough in the system to begin with and routinely changing it or topping it up.

Just my take on it.

Last edited by Zuleikaa : Mon, Jan-28-08 at 09:52.
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Jan-28-08, 09:54
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Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Well, this is very interesting. I hope The Vitamin D Council addresses this in their newsletter.
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  #9   ^
Old Mon, Jan-28-08, 09:58
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LessLiz LessLiz is offline
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Quote:
JMO, I think the premise is wrong. Just because, once you're in the disease state where vitamin D supplementation or sun exposure aggrevates the situation doesn't mean that supplementation/exposure caused the situation in the first place. Nor does it mean that the disease itself caused the vitamin D deficiency.
This is exactly what I was about to write. I find that I feel better when I take D, and feel worse if I don't take it for a week. We just don't get sun here in the winter.
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  #10   ^
Old Mon, Jan-28-08, 09:59
tebesco tebesco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuleikaa
I think there is is a lot of evidence that vitamin D supplementation and even sun, once autoimmune diseases are present and severe can aggrevate and escalate those diseases; Lupus comes to mind.

Vitamin D or sun exposure in a person with Lupus can trigger more severe outbreaks and symptoms for sure. Vitamin D triggers and supports an immune response; but in those with autoimmune diseases the immune response is broken and has turned on its host. So, the vitamin D/sun exposure just worsen conditions and triggers more autoimmune events/outbreaks.

...

At this point vitamin D/sun exposure is not only useless but harmful.

I'm really surprised to see you say this, Zuleikaa. I'm autoimmune and actually started supplementing D3 last year after reading your experiment thread, in which you say:
Quote:
--Do join the experiment if you have one or more of the symptoms of vitamin D deficiency. These are obesity, SAD, depression, anxiety, obsessive behaviors, epilepsy, PCOS, infertility, fibromyalgia, CFS, chronic pain, arthritis, musculoskeletal pain, osteoporosis, lack of balance/muscle strength, autoimmune diseases, intestinal diseases, Crohns, heart disease, impaired thyroid, hyperparathyroid, high blood pressure, high blood calcium levels, rheumatoid arthritis, psoriasis, chronic dry skin, tuberculosis, inflammatory bowel disease, diabetes, or any cancer.
Have I been misunderstanding all this time?

This isn't an attack by any means -- I'm just wondering if I've been shooting myself in the foot.
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  #11   ^
Old Mon, Jan-28-08, 10:13
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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One thing I wonder about is he says "disease process".... but which disease is he talking about?
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  #12   ^
Old Mon, Jan-28-08, 20:26
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Lisa N Lisa N is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
One thing I wonder about is he says "disease process".... but which disease is he talking about?


If you Google the author's name, you should find more information regarding that, I should think.
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Jan-28-08, 22:20
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rightnow rightnow is offline
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Tebesco, it's an experiment: how do YOU think it's working?

PJ
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  #14   ^
Old Tue, Jan-29-08, 18:49
Zuleikaa Zuleikaa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tebesco
I'm really surprised to see you say this, Zuleikaa. I'm autoimmune and actually started supplementing D3 last year after reading your experiment thread, in which you say: Have I been misunderstanding all this time?

This isn't an attack by any means -- I'm just wondering if I've been shooting myself in the foot.
Nope, you're not misunderstanding. Vitamin D tharaphy can turn the quoted diseases around and even repair the damage they cause....before the vitamin D mechanism is damaged.

Though vitamin D and sun can aggrevate Lupus, there have been good results using oregano oil, vitamin C, and other supplements to calm the body's autoimmune response and once the body has calmed cautiously reintroducing vitamin D.

You've been supplementing for over a year. Do you feel your symptoms have improved?

Last edited by Zuleikaa : Tue, Jan-29-08 at 18:56.
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Jan-29-08, 20:20
tebesco tebesco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rightnow
Tebesco, it's an experiment: how do YOU think it's working?

PJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuleikaa
You've been supplementing for over a year. Do you feel your symptoms have improved?
My whole life is an experiment at this point!

I think it's working just fine. I didn't take Vitamin D continuously, though and flared both times I stopped -- but I was also eating high carb at the time, so I don't know exactly what to attribute the flares to.

Across the board, though, things are much more manageable when I'm gluten (and sugar) free and take D3. Can't say it's perfect, but things are genuinely better and I seem to be getting through the winter without steroids (knock on wood) for the first time in years, and that's a huge success in itself.
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