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  #16   ^
Old Sun, Aug-05-18, 06:27
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Quote:
There seem to be two reasons people tend to give when talking about a need for cheat day.

You’ll go crazy if you don’t have one, and having one helps keep you focused the rest of the week.
Your body needs one, otherwise it’ll go into starvation mode. Cheat days keep it from doing that and actually help you lose fat.
There’s some truth to both of these. We all understand the psychological benefit to having a cheat day, and I’d say that it’s fairly true.



I don't see where Tim Ferriss gives anything to support that there's any truth to "better cheat or you'll go into starvation mode."

When I'm craving a "cheat" I generally see it as more of a symptom of starvation mode--and "cheat" type food is what puts me there. When I'm fairly lean, strict ketogenic diet, and I don't crave off-plan foods, I eat as if I had a normal appetite, I have good energy etc. If I eat less ketogenically--that's when I'm prone to binges and lethargy. So for me at least, it's "better not cheat or I'll go into starvation mode."

Also, I'm not sure I'm the best person to judge, but I feel considerably less crazy when I stay on plan. And for me, not less crazy can go so far as frank psychosis, so I pay attention to this.
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  #17   ^
Old Sun, Aug-05-18, 07:27
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,328
 
Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I don't see where Tim Ferriss gives anything to support that there's any truth to "better cheat or you'll go into starvation mode."

When I'm craving a "cheat" I generally see it as more of a symptom of starvation mode--and "cheat" type food is what puts me there. When I'm fairly lean, strict ketogenic diet, and I don't crave off-plan foods, I eat as if I had a normal appetite, I have good energy etc. If I eat less ketogenically--that's when I'm prone to binges and lethargy. So for me at least, it's "better not cheat or I'll go into starvation mode."
I am exactly the same way & I'm a 63 year old woman. It takes 3 days after one cheat snack/meal to tame my cravings, but a couple of weeks to get fully fat-adapted again. Tim Ferris' ideology may work for young athletes or those who aren't and who never have been insulin resistant, but they are craving because they cheat frequently enough that their body never becomes fat adapted or are doing a lot of sprinting-type sports.
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  #18   ^
Old Sun, Aug-05-18, 07:50
zoran zoran is offline
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Posts: 63
 
Plan: P.L.A.N
Stats: 302/290/253 Male 187
BF:
Progress: 24%
Location: thailand
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Funny how these things work. After spending a week with gradually increasing weight and not doing anything different I got pissed off and hit the beer and 2 bowls of 2 minute noodles...i guess i was just looking for an excuse anyway Amazing how good those little noodles tasted

Blow me down, this morning I had the biggest weight drop in weeks!

go figure
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  #19   ^
Old Sun, Aug-05-18, 08:00
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,328
 
Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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Originally Posted by zoran
Funny how these things work. After spending a week with gradually increasing weight and not doing anything different I got pissed off and hit the beer and 2 bowls of 2 minute noodles...i guess i was just looking for an excuse anyway Amazing how good those little noodles tasted Blow me down, this morning I had the biggest weight drop in weeks!go figure
I too will see a weight drop after alcohol, but wait a day or two and you may see a big weight gain as the carbs are fully metabolized and cause you to retain water. No biggie in the long run, as long as you did not eat enough carbs to start a craving cycle.

Last edited by deirdra : Sun, Aug-05-18 at 08:06.
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  #20   ^
Old Sun, Aug-05-18, 08:08
zoran zoran is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 63
 
Plan: P.L.A.N
Stats: 302/290/253 Male 187
BF:
Progress: 24%
Location: thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deirdra
I too will see a weight drop after alcohol, but wait a day or two and you may see a big weight gain as the carbs are fully metabolized and cause you to retain water. No biggie in the long run, as long as you did not eat enough carbs to start a craving cycle.


yep I will be keeping a close eye on the scales to see if it was a false positive. I could be wrong but it took years to get heavy and somehow i dont see an occasional carb day and Im talking a bowl of pasta and some beers will make much of a difference . Not every week but if 2 months down the track I wake up craving I will probably do it again
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  #21   ^
Old Sun, Aug-05-18, 08:43
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,328
 
Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoran
yep I will be keeping a close eye on the scales to see if it was a false positive. I could be wrong but it took years to get heavy and somehow i dont see an occasional carb day and Im talking a bowl of pasta and some beers will make much of a difference . Not every week but if 2 months down the track I wake up craving I will probably do it again
Yeah, that works for me, and if I eat/drink the carbs in a 60-minute window with fat and protein (the only useful recommendation in the Carb Addicts Diet, for me), it doesn't prolong the cravings as long as my cheats are rare. Keto eating doesn't cause me cravings; the rare cheats are typically due to special occasions where I feel like having a small off-plan indulgence. I typically find whatever it was doesn't taste as great as I remember and leaves me feeling tired and headachy, which keeps these occurrences rare.

Last edited by deirdra : Sun, Aug-05-18 at 08:56.
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  #22   ^
Old Mon, Aug-06-18, 13:47
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,475
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deirdra
I typically find whatever it was doesn't taste as great as I remember and leaves me feeling tired and headachy, which keeps these occurrences rare.
That's what I find now, especially with anything sweet -- it's overpoweringly sickly.
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  #23   ^
Old Tue, Aug-07-18, 13:12
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,431
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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What I was hoping is to basically cut then gain a muscular body, then if I keep lifting since I have muscles maybe I could handle carbohydrates then? Would I really become obese again and lose my muscle if I have a muscular body and still lift? At that point shouldn't I be able to eat whatever I want? If not, then what about a more liberal keto type of diet where my default is keto but if I want fast food, or ice cream, cake etc I just eat it and I should be fine since I lift weights and have muscles?

I think you are conflating diet and excersie.

From Dr. Fung:

Quote:
Here’s the most important thing to remember. If you are concerned about losing weight and reversing T2D, then worry about insulin. Fasting and LCHF will help you. If you are worried about muscle mass, then exercise – especially resistance exercises. OK? Don’t confuse the two issues. We always confuse the two issues because the calorie enthusiast have intertwined them in our minds like hamburgers and french fries.

Weight loss and gain is mostly a function of DIET. You can’t exercise your way out of a dietary problem. Remember the story of Peter Attia? A highly intelligent doctor and elite level distance swimmer, he found himself on the heavy end of the scale, and it was not muscle. He was overweight despite exercising 3-4 hours a day. Why? Because muscle is about exercise, and fat is about diet. You can’t out-run a bad diet.

Muscle gain/ loss is mostly a function of EXERCISE. You can’t eat your way to more muscle. Supplement companies, of course, try to convince you otherwise. Eat creatine (or protein shakes, or eye of newt) and you will build muscle. That’s stupid. There’s one good way to build muscle – exercise. So if you are worried about muscle loss – exercise. It ain’t rocket science. Just don’t confuse the two issues of diet and exercise. Don’t worry about what your diet (or lack of diet – fasting) is doing to your muscle. Exercise builds muscle. OK? Clear?


https://idmprogram.com/fasting-and-...asting-part-14/

Last edited by JEY100 : Tue, Aug-07-18 at 14:28.
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  #24   ^
Old Tue, Aug-07-18, 18:04
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,041
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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ImAllLike - sometimes I take a question seriously when I should know better. If you're looking for permission to cheat or eat SAD or for someone to tell you that building more muscle will reverse all of the crap that's been eaten contributing to what you are now, then I'm not the one to tell you that. If you're looking to game the human metabolism, then I don't know enough of what the "secret" method would be to enable you to stay at a healthy weight and be able to eat what you consider "good food." The reality is that when one eats poorly for a long time, the price one pays is very steep. If one is smart enough to start eating in a healthy way early in life, the benefits of a healthy lifestyle will last a long, long time. Simple? Yes. Sacrifices? Yes, but only for a short time, as cravings go away once you find healthy substitutes for the carbage that has been masquerading as food over the past 40 years. Maybe some aren't willing to sacrifice for better health. That's fine.

Last edited by GRB5111 : Tue, Aug-07-18 at 20:47.
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