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  #31   ^
Old Fri, May-23-03, 23:51
kjturner kjturner is offline
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Posts: 433
 
Plan: Bernstein/Atkins
Stats: 210/180/125
BF:
Progress: 35%
Location: Georgia
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What I have found on any media reporting on low carb dieting is that if the article starts with "High Fat Low Carb" just toss it. It'll be negative.
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  #32   ^
Old Sun, May-25-03, 13:03
heyjude607's Avatar
heyjude607 heyjude607 is offline
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Posts: 1,094
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 177/140/140 Female 5'3 1/2"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: NC ~ USA
Default Atkins Vindicated?

~*~

... Not yet, but his dietary ideas are two steps closer to acceptance.
about.com <HEART DISEASE/CARDIOLOGY>
~ By DrRich

Dateline: 05/26/03

Two studies appearing in this week's New England Journal of Medicine have offered additional evidence that the sort of low-carbohydrate diet popularized by Dr. Robert Atkins may be more effective at producing weight loss, and may produce more beneficial metabolic changes, than the low-fat and calorie restricted diets favored by most doctors and their professional organizations.

In the first study, 64 subjects with marked obesity and a history of severe overeating - most of whom had either diabetes or metabolic syndrome - were randomized to a low-carbohydrate diet or to a low-fat, calorie-restricted diet. While neither group had impressive weight loss, those on the low-carb diet lost significantly more weight than those on the low-fat diet. Further, the low-carb diet produced lower triglyceride levels and a greater improvement in insulin sensitivity.

In the second study, 63 obese patients received either the Atkins diet or a conventional low-calorie diet. Those on the Atkins diet lost significantly more weight at the 6 month follow-up period, but by one year the difference in weight loss between the two groups were similar. In this study, however, patients on the Atkins diet had significant improvements in their HDL cholesterol and triglyceride levels throughout the entire duration of the study. Lead investigators for both studies expressed surprise at the success of the carbohydrate-restricting diets - not so much in their achieving weight loss (which was not spectacular in either study), but instead in the metabolic and lipid improvements achieved with the low-carbohydrate diet. That a failure to restrict fat intake could result in anything other than a marked worsening in lipid levels remains a surprise to much of the medical community.

Lest Atkins proponents get carried away by the positive results, two editorials accompanying these articles appeared in the same issue of the Journal. Both demanded caution in interpreting these results. To really know whether the low-carbohydrate diets are successful, the editorialists concluded, much larger, better-conducted studies will have to be done showing not just an improvement in blood tests, but also an improvement in the things that really matter - like the incidence of heart attack, stroke, and death.

What do these studies mean?

These studies were part of the strategy that DrRich refers to as the "Atkins quick kill" gambit. This is the strategy whereby a few, small, rapidly conducted studies (launched primarily to shut up the low-carb faddists) would quickly demonstrate that low-carbohydrate diets don't work, and that they're dangerous. Now that these studies are being completed, it is plain that they are not yielding the expected results. Indeed, based on the two studies published this week, it is safe to say that the "quick kill" strategy has now officially failed.

So: we're at the point where the larger, more expensive, much more time-consuming studies called for by the New England Journal editorialists will have to be planned and funded. Now that their opening gambit has failed, denigrators of the Atkins-style diet will have little choice but to agree to such studies, since the "latest" information on low-carb diets is disturbingly positive, and thus cannot be allowed to stand.

In the meantime, those who favor low-carbohydrate diets will have to wait at least 5 - 7 years for these studies to yield meaningful results, and can expect little or no further "official" endorsement from the medical establishment in the meantime. This, of course, is standard operating procedure for changing any longstanding and embedded policy for which vested interests are doing quite nicely, thank you, whether the policy in question involves health care, government, or religion. So there's no need for the followers of Atkins to feel particularly persecuted. It's not personal; only business.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"You are the music while the music lasts."
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  #33   ^
Old Sun, May-25-03, 17:30
tamarian's Avatar
tamarian tamarian is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 19,513
 
Plan: Atkins/PP/BFL
Stats: 400/223/200 Male 5 ft 11
BF:37%/17%/12%
Progress: 89%
Location: Ottawa, ON
Default Pass the Butter, Please

From the New York Times

Pass the Butter, Please

Dr. Robert Atkins, the diet guru who died last month from head injuries suffered in a fall, would have enjoyed reading last week's issue of The New England Journal of Medicine. It carried two independent studies that enhanced the credibility of his controversial low carbohydrate, high fat, high protein approach to weight loss. Though the Atkins diet has been reviled by the medical establishment for decades as a bit wacky and even potentially dangerous, the two new studies and a third published last month suggest that the diet actually works better than standard low-fat diets in the short term, without any detectable signs of harm. It was a startling reminder of how little the experts know, in this obesity-plagued nation, about the best way to lose weight and keep it off.

For the past several decades, the prevailing dietary dogma has been that a fat-laden diet is bad for you, driving up weight and clogging the arteries with substances that can endanger the heart. Going against the grain, Dr. Atkins said the real culprit was carbohydrates. It was just fine to eat all the steak, eggs and butter that we yearned for as long as we cut down on the carbs. Unfortunately, there was scant scientific evidence to support his claims.

Now, however, three controlled clinical trials in small numbers of patients have validated the Atkins approach, at least when pursued for six months. One study of 63 moderately obese subjects put half on a conventional low-fat diet and half on the Atkins plan. The Atkins dieters lost more weight than the comparison group and, surprisingly, had healthier blood-fat levels — fewer dangerous triglycerides and more "good cholesterol."

The only trouble is, neither diet worked all that well given the group's excessive weight, averaging 216 pounds at the start. Those on the Atkins diet lost an average of 15 pounds by the end of six months and those on the conventional diet lost 7 pounds. By the end of a year, however, each group had gained some of the weight back, with the Atkins group leading the way. Worse yet, people dropped out of both diets in droves. The sad truth is, no matter what diet people go on, they have a hard time sticking to it. It's enough to drive us back to the Drinking Man's Diet.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/25/o....html?tntemail0
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  #34   ^
Old Mon, May-26-03, 11:21
Angeline's Avatar
Angeline Angeline is offline
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Posts: 3,423
 
Plan: Atkins (loosely)
Stats: -/-/- Female 60
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Default

Time Magazine (Canadian Edition) June 02, 2003
By Sanjay Gupta, M.D.

Breaking Bread

Two studies yield good news about protein. But yes, there are caveats

It pays to tell people what they want to hear. Witness the continuing popularity of the Atkins diet, the granddaddy of nearly all the low-carbohydrate, high-protein regiments clamouring to banish your love handles. Here’s a plan that promises you can eat pork rinds and Brie and still lose weight. Dr Robert Atkins’ books have sold some 15 million copies over the past 30 years, and his potential audience just keeps growing. More than 60% of Americans adults are overweight or obese, according to the latest estimates.

On some level, most of us figure the low-carb message has to be too good to be true. Certainly that’s what we’ve heard over and over from the medical and nutritional establishments, which still maintain that the healthiest way to lose weight is to adopt a low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet. But Atkins, who died earlier this year after a fall, may et get the last laugh. Two new studies in the New England Journal of Medicine suggest that there may be more health benefits to a low-carb diet than mainstream researches had previously thought possible.

The results are preliminary but nevertheless intriguing. IN both studies, test subjects who followed a low-carb diet lost a least twice as much weight as those on a conventional high-carb, low-fat diet after six months. Even at that the average weight loss for the low-carb dieters all of whom were obese, was a modest 6 kg in the first NEJM study and 7 kg in the second. Forty percent of the subjects dropped out of the experiments before completing them. Both studies also showed that the Atkins-style diet boosted the levels of high-density lipoprotein (HDL), the so-called good cholesterol, in the blood and lowered the amount of potentially dangerous fats called triglycerides.

But don’t reach for those pork rinds just yet. While the new studies showed an initial benefit the advantages gradually disappeared over the long term. After a year, folks on the low-carb diet had regained much more weight than those on low-fat diets. And as Dr Dean Ornish –on the opposite side of many a debate with Atkins – points out, you would expect HDL, levels to go up with a low-0carb diet, since HDL acts as a kind of dum0p truck for scavenging fatty compounds. It will also takes years to determine whether low-carb diets – which stint on carbohydrate-laden fruits and vegetables –increase the risk of kidney of bone damage, cancer and other conditions.

Even with the publication of these two studies, most healthy professionals, including me, still won’t feel comfortable recommending at Atkins-style diet. Good health consists of more than a few positive numbers on a blood test or a bathroom scale. There are just too many unknowns about the long-term impact of a low-carb diet on your health.

Plus if we’ve learned anything over the past several decades of fighting the battle of the bulge, it’s that short-term diets are no substitute for what should be lifelong changes in your habits. You have to move to maintain a healthy weight – hard enough to break a sweat at least 30 minutes a day most days of the week (45 minutes if you are trying to loose weight). You have to eat those fruits and vegetables – five to nine servings the size of your fist - every day. And while you’re at it, it doesn’t hurt to simplify your life and strengthen your bonds with family and friends.

That may not be the kind of advice most of us want to hear. But that doesn’t make it any less the truth.

With reporting by A. Chris Gajilan/new York
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  #35   ^
Old Mon, May-26-03, 11:44
c6h6o3 c6h6o3 is offline
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Posts: 312
 
Plan: Bernstein
Stats: 203/171/170
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: DC Metro
Default Short Term Diet?

Where did we get this idea that the Atkins plan is a "short term diet"? It's a way of life, and he tells you that right up front. A way of eating for THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. Does that sound "short term" to you?
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  #36   ^
Old Mon, May-26-03, 12:19
Angeline's Avatar
Angeline Angeline is offline
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Posts: 3,423
 
Plan: Atkins (loosely)
Stats: -/-/- Female 60
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Default

There is so much wrong with this article, I don't even know where to begin.

But basically it seems to me that his attitude is irresponsible. It's not as if low-fat produced satisfactory lipid results and to go on Atkins was trading a sure thing for the unknown. Low-fat has been proven a failure... more than a failure, it's actually dangerous. To warn people not to do Atkins just yet while failing to inform them of the dangers of low-fat is irresponsible.

I believe that his recommendations were based on the Osaka longevity studies. They aren't totally incompatible with Atkins. What's wrong with at least erring on the safe side and to recommend cutting down on refined carbs ? What about all the people who are going to die while they wait for the longer studies to prove Atkins right.

Again, this article is based on what the author THINKS Atkins is about. Never fails to amaze me that "serious" journalists don't even bother to check on the things they write about.

Last edited by Angeline : Mon, May-26-03 at 12:20.
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  #37   ^
Old Sat, Jun-28-03, 12:14
PeterK987's Avatar
PeterK987 PeterK987 is offline
Contributing Member
Posts: 58
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 230/220/154
BF:
Progress: 13%
Location: Chicago, IL
Default Insignificant?

They keep talking about how the differences between the diets in the study was insignificant. I don't really see basically doubling the weight loss with better blood work number as insignificant, but hey I'm not a doctor whose been talking bad about low-carb for years and now the studies just won't say what I want them to.

Maybe they need to select their participants a bit more carefully, 40% drop out rate means that the maintenance numbers are useless, as they admit but still seem to draw conclusions from them. Plus I wouldn't be suprised to see if the breakdown for that average weight wasn't exactly fair. Previous studies I've seen have but people with alot less to lose on the Atkins side of the study.

No matter what though...Even if they minimize the results of the Atkins diet and say it was a failure. Then the low-fat results were a collasal disappointment comparitively. Yet again I ask if Atkins is so dangerous, where's the trail of dead bodies because there would have to be one a mile long by now. You know that if there was even a slight problem the media would have latched onto it. It seems to me they haven't found it because it isn't there.
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  #38   ^
Old Sun, Jun-29-03, 08:48
katrine77's Avatar
katrine77 katrine77 is offline
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Posts: 126
 
Plan: Zone
Stats: 235/190/145 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 50%
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"Where did we get this idea that the Atkins plan is a "short term diet"? It's a way of life, and he tells you that right up front. A way of eating for THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. Does that sound "short term" to you?"

My sentiments exactly, c6h6o3! It just erks the heck out of me every time I read the reporst on this article. And it is so interesting to me that these scientists over the years continue to say that whenever we want to gain health and/or lose weight, we have to MAKE IT A LIFESTYLE CHANGE and NOT JUST A TEMPORARY DIET!. Don't they get it that it's the same with the Atkins WOE. That it is a Way Of Life, FOREVER!

kathy
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  #39   ^
Old Thu, Jul-10-03, 21:01
Eric91411 Eric91411 is offline
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Posts: 12
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 219.5/193.5/190
BF:
Progress: 88%
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Angry Just burns me up...

``There's never been any denying that low-carbohydrate, high-protein diets such as Atkins do, absolutely, cause weight loss,'' she said. ``But do they hold up over time and can you stay on them over time?''

What a liar this woman is.

Actually, there's been nothing BUT denial that people lose weight on Atkins.

As for holding up over time, and staying on them, it's not the food that causes people to slide...it's the difficulty of finding low-carb foods out there! Just this week I went to three functions where no low-carb was available! Nothing but bread, pasta, rice, etc...I had to eat something!
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  #40   ^
Old Fri, Jul-11-03, 05:25
c6h6o3 c6h6o3 is offline
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Posts: 312
 
Plan: Bernstein
Stats: 203/171/170
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: DC Metro
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric91411
Nothing but bread, pasta, rice, etc...I had to eat something!


No you didn't. When stuck in that situation I have 1) A Diet Coke and 2) a good time.
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  #41   ^
Old Fri, Jul-11-03, 13:08
DebPenny's Avatar
DebPenny DebPenny is offline
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Posts: 1,514
 
Plan: TSP/PPLP/low-cal/My own
Stats: 250/209/150 Female 63.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 41%
Location: Sacramento, CA
Default

Eric, I haven't heard/read people's saying that you can't lose weight on low-carb, but I have heard over and over again that it's not sustainable and it's boring. And here you go saying that it's hard to find low-carb foods -- adding fuel to their fire.

I disagree with all that. It is sustainable -- I've been low-carbing for over a year and a half, and I'm still going strong and loving it. And I have no trouble finding interesting low-carb foods without relying on the fake foods that try to imitate all the high-carb foods we avoid as low-carbers.

I eat lots of fresh vegetables and meats. I have tons of delicious low-carb recipes. My favorite snack right now is dill pickles and string cheese - Yum!

I suppose it might be easier for me since I am not so low-carb as many people following Atkins are (my program is The Schwarzbein Principle), but I don't eat any grains due to an adverse sensitivity to them, so that gets rid of a large group of foods that on TSP I could eat. On TSP we are discouraged from using all the processed low-carb foods that the snack/diet industry is devising, and I haven't gotten bored yet. And I haven't gone to any party yet where I didn't find some little nibble, such as a vegetable tray and/or a meat and cheese tray, to get me through until I can eat properly.

This is my way of life now. I wouldn't think of eating any other way.

;-Deb
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  #42   ^
Old Thu, Aug-21-03, 19:54
Eric91411 Eric91411 is offline
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Posts: 12
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 219.5/193.5/190
BF:
Progress: 88%
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Default

Really? I hear over and over again that you can't lose weight on low-carb, because "the fat you eat just gives you more to burn."

The "sustainability" of Atkins is going to vary from place to place...where I used to work, there were at least eight restaurants in the area with dishes that happen to be low-carb. I've been in my new job for six months, flying all over town every weekday at lunch, desperate to find a restaurant with even one dish that's low carb, or where substitutions are not a big problem.

Still looking. It's very frustrating and I'm gaining weight as a result. It doesn't add fuel to the fire of low-carb nonbelievers to say this; rather it strengthens our position, because it is yet more evidence that we Americans are overweight due to the high-carb restaurant culture we live in. I will state unequivocally that in Burbank, California, 91505, low-carb meals are a NIGHTMARE to put together, from the Disney commissary to Frank's Coffee Shop to the entire food court at the Media Center Mall. Please nobody tell me otherwise unless you have spent six months looking here as well.

Ditto buffets, banquets, and the like...I am NOT going to just drink a Diet Coke (I hate it anyway). Rather, I am going to eat SOMETHING if just to keep my metabolism going, not just a few nibbles of cold cuts.
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  #43   ^
Old Thu, Aug-21-03, 22:15
black57 black57 is offline
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Posts: 11,822
 
Plan: atkins/intermit. fasting
Stats: 166/136/135 Female 5'3''
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: Orange, California
Default

I hear comments aobut the diet being boring. Boring? My kids, who are not low carbing asked if I could make my Atkins fried chicken ( this is a recipe that I conjured up myself with breading made from soy flour instead of processed wheat flour ). They said it is the bomb! Not only is it not boring, it can be made interesting to people who are not low carbing. I have made chocolate chip cookies with soy flour and crushed Pure Delight candy bars. I found a TO DIE FOR CHEESE CAKE at the health food store. I have always been a meat eater but veggies were never a big deal although I liked them. I felt as long as I had green beans or corn my veggie quota was met. Now I eat a big variety of vegetables. I eat so many varieties that I do not need fruit. I have been able to eat some of the best low carb breads without getting a spike in insulin.

Black57
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  #44   ^
Old Fri, Aug-22-03, 10:10
Eric91411 Eric91411 is offline
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Posts: 12
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 219.5/193.5/190
BF:
Progress: 88%
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Default

Where do you get soy flour? At the grocery store or do you have to go to a specialty store? Or do you have to (gulp) order it online at high cost...?

Am going grocery shopping this weekend and would like to pick some up. I have some unbreaded chicken breasts at home and would like to slap something on em.
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  #45   ^
Old Sun, Aug-24-03, 18:03
c6h6o3 c6h6o3 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 312
 
Plan: Bernstein
Stats: 203/171/170
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: DC Metro
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric91411
Rather, I am going to eat SOMETHING if just to keep my metabolism going, not just a few nibbles of cold cuts.


You miss my point, which is that you must be adaptable, flexible and willing to plan ahead a bit.

It certainly is frustrating. Absolutely EVERYTHING in restaurants is breaded or uses some kind of grain product in its formulation. And this is what's killing us. But they'll never change, because there's just too much money in all the medications, surgery and consultations for the medical community, the pharmaceutical companies and the food industries to allow the truth to emerge.

We just have to get used to it and adapt.
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