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  #1   ^
Old Sun, Sep-23-01, 18:29
fern2340's Avatar
fern2340 fern2340 is offline
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Default AM Cardio on an Empty Stomach

FYI

The best time for you to do cardio exercise is first thing
in the morning before you eat anything. When you get up in
the morning, your sugar levels are not elevated because you
haven’t eaten food since the day before; therefore your body
will need to fuel itself with your stored fat.
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Sep-26-01, 06:48
lisaf's Avatar
lisaf lisaf is offline
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Default Can you help me understand how this works?

I'm seeing a lot of conflicting advice on this front (not in this forum - but magazines, online fitness sites etc.) I'm not sure I understand how having non-elevated blood sugar would lead the body to burn fat. I thought that your body would first choose the glycogen stored in muscle, and then turn to fat-burning once the glycogen stores were exhausted. If this is true, then working out morning, or later wouldn't make a difference. Since we are loading carbs, I would assume LC would mean less glycogen so the body would turn to fat much sooner.

Help!?!?!
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Sep-26-01, 07:01
Natrushka Natrushka is offline
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Default Lisa.....

This is something I found a while back when researching this very topic.

Nat

http://www.sixpacknow.com/fatlosstips.html

Quote:
"Continuous cardiovascular exercise, such as walking, jogging, stairclimbing, or cycling, sustained for at least 30 minutes, will burn body fat no matter when you do it. However, if you want to get the maximum benefits possible from every minute you invest in your workouts, then you should consider getting up early and doing cardio before you eat your first meal - even if you're not a "morning person." Early morning aerobic exercise on an empty stomach has three major advantages over exercising later in the day.

First of all, morning cardio burns more fat! Early in the morning before you eat, your levels of muscle and liver glycogen (stored carbohydrate) are low. If you eat dinner at 7 p.m and you eat breakfast at 7 a.m., that's 12 hours without food. During this 12-hour overnight fast, your levels of glycogen slowly decline to provide glucose for various bodily functions that go on even while you sleep. As a result, you wake up in the morning with depleted glycogen and lower blood sugar - the optimum environment for burning fat instead of carbohydrate. How much more fat you'll burn is uncertain, but some studies have suggested that up to 300% more fat is burned when cardio is done in a fasted, glycogen-depleted state.

So how exactly does this work? It's quite simple, really. Carbohydrate (glycogen) is your body's primary and preferred energy source. When your primary fuel source is in short supply, this forces your body to tap into its secondary or reserve energy source; body fat. If you do cardio immediately after eating a meal, you'll still burn fat, but you'll burn less of it because you'll be burning off the carbohydrates you ate first. You always burn a combination of fat and carbohydrate for fuel, but depending on when you exercise, you can burn a greater proportion of fat relative to carbohydrate. If doing cardio first thing in the morning is not an option for you, then the second best time to do it would be immediately after weight training. Lifting weights is anaerobic (carbohydrate-burning) by nature, and therefore depletes muscle glycogen. That's why a post lifting cardio session has a similar effect as morning cardio on an empty stomach.

The second benefit you'll get from early morning cardio sessions is what I call the "afterburn" effect. When you do a cardio session in the morning, you not only burn fat during the session, but you also continue to burn fat at an accelerated rate after the workout. Why? Because an intense session of cardiovascular exercise can keep your metabolism elevated for hours after the session is over. If you do cardio at night, you will still burn fat during the session, so you definitely benefit from it. However, nighttime cardio fails to take advantage of the "afterburn" effect because your metabolism drops like a ton of bricks as soon as you go to sleep. While you sleep, your metabolic rate is slower than any other time of the day.

Burning more fat isn't the only reason you should do your cardio early. The third benefit of morning workouts is the "rush" and feeling of accomplishment that stays with you all day long after an invigorating workout. Exercise can become a pleasant and enjoyable experience, but the more difficult or challenging it is for you, the more important it is to get it out of the way early. When you put off any task you consider unpleasant, it hangs over you all day long, leaving you with a feeling of guilt, stress and incompleteness (not to mention that you are more likely to "blow off" an evening workout if you are tired from a long day at work or if your pals try to persuade you to join them at the pub for happy hour.)

You might find it hard to wake up early in the morning and get motivated to workout. But think back for a moment to a time in your life when you tackled a difficult task and you finished it. Didn't you feel great afterwards? Completing any task, especially a physically challenging one, gives you a "buzz." When the task is exercise, the buzz is physiological and psychological. Physiologically, exercise releases endorphins in your body. Endorphins are opiate-like hormones hundreds of times more powerful than the strongest morphine. Endorphins create a natural "high" that makes you feel positively euphoric! Endorphins reduce stress, improve your mood, increase circulation and relieve pain. The "high" is partly psychological too. Getting up early and successfully achieving a small goal kick starts your day and gives you feelings of completion, satisfaction and accomplishment. For the rest of the day you feel happy and you feel less stress knowing that a difficult part of the day is behind you. "
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Sep-26-01, 09:38
lisaf's Avatar
lisaf lisaf is offline
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Default

Thanks Nat! That helps alot!

Lisa

P.S. Thanks to morning workouts I'm down 33 lbs to 167 - only 17 to go!
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Sep-26-01, 09:48
Natrushka Natrushka is offline
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Posts: 11,512
 
Plan: IF +LC
Stats: 287/165/165 Female 66"
BF:
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Default

Quote:
Originally posted by lisaf
P.S. Thanks to morning workouts I'm down 33 lbs to 167 - only 17 to go!


WTG!! I'll look for you jogging around the neighbourhood

N
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Sep-28-01, 04:42
Trainerdan's Avatar
Trainerdan Trainerdan is offline
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Default loooooooong post ....

I posted this before somewhere on the board, but it warrants posting again ...

It's long, but full of good info:

The arguement in favor of fasted early morning cardio goes something like this:

(1) WHEN YOU WAKE UP in the morning after an 8-to-12 hour overnight fast, your body's stores of gylcogen are somewhat depleted. Doing cardio in that state causes your body to mobilize more fat because of the unavailability of glycogen.

(2) EATING CAUSES A RELEASE of insulin, which interferes with the mobilization of bodyfat. Less insulin is present in the morning; therefore you burn more bodyfat when you do your cardio in the morning.

(3) THERE'S LESS CARBOHYDRATE (glucose) in your bloodstream after an overnight fast. With less glucose available, you'll burn more fat.

(4) IF YOU EAT IMMEDIATELY before a workout, you have to burn off carbs you just ate before tapping into stored bodyfat.

(5) WHEN YOU DO CARDIO IN THE MORNING, your metabolism stays elevated for a period of time after the workout is over. If you do cardio in the evening, you will benefit from it, but you fail to take advantage of teh afterburn effect because your metobolic rate drops dramatically as soon as you go to sleep.

Research supports this theory. A study performed at Kansas State University and published in Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise showed the subjects burned a kilogram (2.2 lbs.) of fat sooner when the exercised in a fasted state in the morining than when the did it later in the day.

The researchers measured respitory gas exchange, caloric expenditure, and carbohydrate/fatty acid metabolism and found that the amount of fat burned during aerobic exercise amounted to 67% of the total energy expenditure in the morning after a 12 hour fast. That's substantially higher than the 50% expenditure achieved when the subjects did the same exercise later in the day or after eating.

A similar study published in the Journal of Applied Physiology looked at the effects of aerobic exercise on lipid oxidation in fed vs. fasted states. The researchers conculded, "Our results support the hypothesis that endurance training enhances lipid oxidation in men after a 12-hour overnight fast."

Yet another paper, "Optimizing Exercise for Fat Loss," reports, "The ability of exercise to selectively promote fat oxidation should be optimized if exercise is done during morning fasted metabolism."

When it comes to "real world fat loss", few people have more experience than Chris Aceto (nutrition guru/advsior to many pro bodybuilders).

Aceto is a firm believer in morning cardio. He unequivocally states, "The fastest way to tap into stored bodyfat is to do cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach."

Aceto believes that looking at calories only in terms of energy in vs. energy out is "limited thinking." He asserts that there are more factors involved in real-world results than just energy balance. It all comes back to the old arguement, are all calories created equal?

"Absolutely not!" Aceto declares. "A calorie in not just a calorie, and exercise physiologists freak out when they hear that."

"These guys are working from the assumption that it's just a matter of calories in vs. calories out, period," Chris continues. "With that line of reasoning, they'd be forced to say that if I consumed nothing but candy bars and Coca-Cola and took in 100 calories less than maintenance, I'd lose weight. We know it's not that simple. You have to account for ratios of carbs, protein, and fat."

"Then there's meal frequency: From real-world results we know you put on more muscle mass from five or six meals a day than from three meals a day. There are more things involved than just calories."

There are many other reasons you might want to consider making morning cardio a part of your daily routine. Landry, despite his doubts about whether the fuel source matters admits, "If I had to pick a single factor I thought was most important in a succesful weight-loss program, it would have to be exercise first thing in the morning."

Here are some of the additional benefits of doing cardio early in the morning:

- It makes you feel great all day by releasing mood-enhancing endorphins.

- It energizes you and wakes you up.

- It may help regulate your appetite for the rest of the day

- Your body's circadian rhythm adjusts to your morning routine, making it easier to wake up at the same time every day

- You'll be less likely to blow off your workout when it's out of the way early.

- You can always make time for exercise by setting your alarm earlier in the morning.

- It increases your metabolic rate for hours after the session is over.

Of all those benefits, the post exercise increase in your metabolic rate is the one most talked about. Scientists call this afterburn effect "excess postexercise oxygen consumption," or EPOC.

Looking only at the number and type of calories burned during the session doesn't give you the full picture. You also need to look at the number of calories your elevated metabolism continues to burn after the workout is over.

That's right -- work out in the morning, and you burn calories all day long.

You burn somewhere between 10 and 30 calories extra after exercise at an intensity of less than 60 to 65 percent of maximal heart rate (MHR). In other words, a casual stroll on the treadmill will do next to nothing to increase your metabolism.

EPOC does increase with the intensity (and duration) of the exercise, however. According to Willmore and Costill in Physiology of Sport and Exercise, the EPOC after moderate exercise (75 to 80 percent of MHR) will amount to apporximately .25 calories per minute, or 15 calories per hour. That would provide an additional expenditure of 75 calories. An extra 75 calories is definately no earth shattering, but it does add up over time. In a year, it would mean (in theory) that you'd burn an extra 5.2 pounds of fat from the additional calories expended after your workouts.

One way to get a significant post-exercise afterburn is high-intensity interval training (HIIT). You alternate brief periods of high intensity work (85% of maximum heart rate or more) with brief periods of lower-intensity work. Studies on the effects of HIIT have demonstrated a much higher EPOC, which can add substantially to the day's calorie expenditure.

In one study scientists from the University of Alabama compared the effects of two exercise protocalls on 24 hour energy expenditure:

- Group #1 cycled for 60 minutes at a moderate intensity.

- Group #2 performed HIIT, cycling for 2 minutes at high intensity followed by 2 minutes at low-intensity.

The group that performed HIIT (group #2) burned 160 more calories in 24 hours than the low intensity group.

That would translate to an extra 11.8 pounds of fat burned in one year if they did HIIT five days per week instead of conventional low-intensity training.

Ironically, weight training has a much higher magnitude of EPOC than aerobic training.

Studies have shown increases in metabolic rate of as much as 4-7% over a 24-hour period from resistance training.

Yes - that means bodybuilding does burn fat – albeit through an indirect mechanism. For someone with an expenditure of 2500 calories per day, that could add up to 100 - 175 extra calories burned after your weight training workout is over.

The lesson is simple: Anyone interested in losing body fat who is not lifting weights should first take up a regimen of bodybuilding, then – and only then – start thinking about the morning cardio!

A common concern about doing cardio in the fasted state, especially if it’s done with high intensity, is the possibility of losing muscle. After an overnight fast, glycogen, blood glucose and insulin are all low. As we’ve already concluded, this is an optimum environment for burning fat.

Unfortunately, it may also be an optimum environment for burning muscle because carbohydrate fuel sources are low and levels of the catabolic stress hormone cortisol are high. It sounds like morning cardio might be a double-edged sword, but there are ways to avert muscle loss.

All aerobic exercise will have some effect on building muscle, but as long as you don’t overdo it, you shouldn’t worry about losing muscle. It's a fact that muscle proteins are broken down and used for energy during aerobic exercise. But you are constantly breaking down and rebuilding muscle tissue anyway. This process is called "protein turnover" and it’s a daily fact of life. Your goal is to tip the scales slightly in favor of increasing the anabolic side and reducing the catabolic side just enough so you stay anabolic and you gain or at least maintain muscle.

How do you build up more muscle than you break down? First, avoid excessive cardio. Aceto suggests limiting your cardio on an empty stomach to 30 minutes, and then it would be "highly unlikely that amino acids will be burned as fuel." He also mentions that "a strong cup of coffee should facilitate a shifting to burn more fat and less glycogen. If you can spare glycogen, you’ll ultimately spare protein too." You might also want to consider experimenting with the thermogenic ephedrine-caffeine-aspirin stack (or it’s herbal equivalent).

Second, give your body the proper nutritional support. Losing muscle probably has more to do with inadequate nutrition than with excessive aerobics. Provide yourself with the proper nutritional support for the rest of the day, including adequate meal frequency, protein, carbohydrates and total calories, and it’s not as likely that there will be a net loss of muscle tissue over each 24-hour period.

Third, keep training with heavy weights, even during a fat loss phase. Using light weights and higher reps thinking that it will help you get more "cut" is a mistake: What put the muscle on in the first place is likely to help you keep it there.

Still petrified of losing your hard-earned muscle, but you’d like to take advantage of the fat-burning and metabolism-boosting effects of morning cardio?

One strategy many bodybuilders use is to drink a protein shake or eat a protein only meal 30-60 minutes prior to the morning session. The protein without the carbs will minimize the insulin response and allow you to mobilize fat while providing amino acids to prevent muscle breakdown.

In conclusion, it seems that morning cardio has enough indisputable benefits to motivate most people to set their alarms early. But let’s talk bottom line results here:

Does it really result in more "real world fat loss" than aerobics performed at other times of the day or after eating? I have to believe it does. Experience, common sense and research all tell me so.

Nevertheless, this will obviously continue to be an area of much debate, and clearly, more research is needed. In the meantime, while the scientists are busy in their labs measuring respiratory exchange ratios, caloric expenditures and rates of substrate utilization, I’m going to keep waking up at 6:00 AM every morning to get on my elliptical.

References

1. Aceto, Chris. Everything you need to know about fat loss. Club Creavalle, Inc. (1997).

2. Bahr, R. Excess post-exercise oxygen consumption – Magnitude, Mechanisms and Practical Implications. Acta Physiol Scand. Suppl. (1992) 605. 1-70.

3. Bergman, BC, Brooks, GA. Respiratory gas-exchange ratios during graded exercise in fed and fasted trained and untrained men. Journal of Applied Physiology. (1999) 86: 2.

4. Brehm, B.A., and Gutin, B. Recovery energy expenditure for steady state exercise in runners and non-exercisers. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. (1986) 18: 205,

5. Brybner, BW. The effects of exercise intensity on body composition, weight loss, and dietary composition in women. Journal of American College of Nutrition, (1997) 16: 68-73

6. Landry, Greg. The Metabolism System for Weight Loss. Greg Landry. (2000).

7. Maehlum, S., etc al. Magnitude and duration of post exercise oxygen consumption in healthy young subjects. Metabolism (1986) 35 (5): 425-429.

8. McCarty, MF. Optimizing Exercise for Fat Loss. Medical Hypothesis. (1995) 44: 325-330
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Sep-28-01, 05:58
Atriana's Avatar
Atriana Atriana is offline
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Default Re: loooooooong post ....

(1) WHEN YOU WAKE UP in the morning after an 8-to-12 hour overnight fast, your body's stores of gylcogen are somewhat depleted. Doing cardio in that state causes your body to mobilize more fat because of the unavailability of glycogen.

Just a question - while low carbing aren't our glycogen stores constantly depleted? Isn't glycogen formed from carbs?
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Sep-28-01, 08:15
Lipo Lipo is offline
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Default I advise against this

The theory about fasted morning workouts may or may not work for you. I personally wouldn't do it because I believe that its too catabolic. The body's choice for what fuel to use is mostly driven by the demands placed on it. In the situation where glycogen stores are high (or normal) and the demand for immediate pre-oxidized fuel exists, glycogen will be used. If the demand is lower and the body has time it will make the effort to bring tri-g's out of storage. Thus you can (and do) burn fat even when glycogen is normal or higher. Now if glycogen is deleted and you place too high a demand for fast energy the body will start breaking down lean tissue (muscle) to meet the demand (glucogenesis) since oxidizing fat for fuel is a slower process. So if I were to do fasted morning workouts I'd definitely keep to low intensity cardio but I'd prefer to avoid it altogether.
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Sep-28-01, 08:23
Natrushka Natrushka is offline
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Default Re: I advise against this

Quote:
Originally posted by Lipo
Now if glycogen is deleted and you place too high a demand for fast energy the body will start breaking down lean tissue (muscle) to meet the demand (glucogenesis) since oxidizing fat for fuel is a slower process. So if I were to do fasted morning workouts I'd definitely keep to low intensity cardio but I'd prefer to avoid it altogether.


I can see this applying to those who burn carbs as their primary souce of fuel, however would it still be the case for LCers as our bodies are already burning fat as the prefered fuel ?

Nat
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Sep-28-01, 11:38
Lipo Lipo is offline
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Default There is no cognitive switch here

There is no cognitive switch by the body on what type of fuel it uses. It is strictly a supply and demand issue and these processes can (and do) run concurrently. If the body needs energy faster than you can oxidize fat then it 'will' turn to the next available source (muscle). The brain can become accustomed to using ketones but will never 'prefer' them over glucose. The same with the skeletal muscles. If demand is low then fat is fine. Ask for too much too quickly and lean mass will suffer. If you start the day with depleted glycogen and choose to run stadium stairs for an hour on an empty stomach you 'will' loose some lean mass (along with bodyfat). Can you spare it? Just my $.02

Lipo
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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Sep-28-01, 11:43
Natrushka Natrushka is offline
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Default Re: There is no cognitive switch here

Quote:
Originally posted by Lipo
If you start the day with depleted glycogen and choose to run stadium stairs for an hour on an empty stomach you 'will' loose some lean mass (along with bodyfat). Can you spare it?


Yes, because I do not run up stadium stairs for an hour first thing in the morning. I do 35 - 45 minutes medium intensity on a nordictrack, and I reap the benefits for the rest of the day.

Thanks for the discussion, Lipo.

Nat
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, Sep-28-01, 16:46
Trainerdan's Avatar
Trainerdan Trainerdan is offline
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Default ...

At the risk of being redundant ...

Quote:
All aerobic exercise will have some effect on building muscle, but as long as you don’t overdo it, you shouldn’t worry about losing muscle. It's a fact that muscle proteins are broken down and used for energy during aerobic exercise. But you are constantly breaking down and rebuilding muscle tissue anyway. This process is called "protein turnover" and it’s a daily fact of life. Your goal is to tip the scales slightly in favor of increasing the anabolic side and reducing the catabolic side just enough so you stay anabolic and you gain or at least maintain muscle.


I'll put more to this later ... Fern and I are on our way to see the Flyer's vs. the Islanders.

I use AM fasted cardio everytime I "lean-out" for summer ... and it is also used by most of my bodybuilding buddies who are getting ready to compete.

It works ...
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Oct-01-01, 12:38
Lipo Lipo is offline
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Default Still not convinced

Sorry but I'm still not convinced that this is a good idea. Firstly; I don't do cardio for fat loss anyway because its needlessly catabolic and secondly; I seem to get better results (than most folks) from volume weight training. If you are significantly overweight maybe it doesn't matter but if you're like me and fighting to gain or retain every ounce of lean mass its not the way to go.

Lipo
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  #14   ^
Old Mon, Oct-01-01, 13:34
Trainerdan's Avatar
Trainerdan Trainerdan is offline
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Default ...

The point of this thread isn't to convert you to a believer of AM cardio in a fasted state. You either believe in it, or you don't.

Science has prven that you CAN burn more fuel from fat by using this method, so that is why Fern posted ... Most of the people on this board are here due to fat loss issues, so it would be a wise decision to do AM cardio.

I won't cut-and-paste the studies again, as they are all contained in my first post to this thread.

However if GLUCONEOGENESIS is your concern, there are ways to minimize it, if you know what you are doing. Again, these are also contained in my original post.

A little pre-workout caffeine or ECA stack will help you to tip the scales to avoid catabolism ... also taking a post-workout dose of BCAA's (1 gram,per 20 lbs. bodyweight) and a pre-workout dose of L-glutamine (10g as soon as you wake up) you can avoid the slight bit of catabolism that may occur.

This is a case of the benefit (great amount of fat loss) clearly outweighing the risk (slight loss of muscle mass).

Bottom line: It works. Science and lots of real world experience prove it.
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  #15   ^
Old Mon, Oct-01-01, 13:37
Natrushka Natrushka is offline
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Default Re: ...

Quote:
Originally posted by Trainerdan
A little pre-workout caffeine or ECA stack will help you to tip the scales to avoid catabolism ...


Question, Dan. I typically have a 1/2 cup of coffee prior to my workout at 5:45 am. Should I discontinue?

Thx,
Nat
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