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  #1366   ^
Old Tue, Nov-03-20, 18:52
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,678
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Great article by Dom listing the problems with this study. As an overweight person who volunteered for a University study with a control group Iíll add another...the motivated participant who was disappointed not to be picked for TRE arm, so she does everything allowed and then some in the control group. Not only pushes the eating window to the limits of Meal 1 &3, but also eats fewer calories and exercises more. Everyone volunteered for a weight loss study...they were hoping to lose weight! and use the accountability of being in a study to accomplish that, even those in the control.

That is a really good observation of a major confounder in studies like these. Hyper-responsible participants who don't comply with simply being a member of the control group. Hadn't thought about that before. Good stuff. Bet you weren't alone.
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  #1367   ^
Old Wed, Nov-04-20, 06:42
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
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Posts: 6,943
 
Plan: DDF (2021 Q2)
Stats: 168/92/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 88%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
This is an excellent and more detailed analysis by Dom D'Agostino of the TRE study published last month:
https://www.ketonutrition.org/blog/...ss-is-this-true

...


That was interesting. Esp for me as I'm practicing TRE till Jan1 using "waking until noon" and eating mostly protein, fat and a few veg. Also exercise will be a constant as I'm not planning on doing any extra

Diving into this reference from the article by Peter A https://peterattiamd.com/time-restr...-effectiveness/
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  #1368   ^
Old Wed, Nov-04-20, 10:13
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,678
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Just finished the Attia article. Thanks, Thud, very consistent with Dom's analysis with additional details. Very informative. My take away from all this is that we need to be careful when a study is touted by headlines, as the story is always much deeper and nuanced. Also, the type of food consumed does matter, so I end up confident in the clinical successes employing TRE coupled with a healthy low-carb protocol. Most important, our N=1 experiences to me are the gold standard and demonstrate real results (or not in certain cases). Those of us sharing this information are really the outliers, as we tend to be much deeper in the weeds of healthy lifestyle practices compared to others and are willing to experiment. Knowledge and action.
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  #1369   ^
Old Mon, Nov-09-20, 09:20
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,862
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/154/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 127%
Location: NC
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Great interview with Dr. Fung about The Cancer Code...publication and Kindle available tomorrow, Nov 10th.

https://lowcarbmd.com/episode-145-dr-jason-fung

All good information about cancer, around minute 40 the conversation turns to diet, nutrition.
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  #1370   ^
Old Mon, Nov-09-20, 13:38
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
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Posts: 7,582
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: NE Florida
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Oh wow, I have The Cancer Code on pre-order. Can't wait to read it.
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  #1371   ^
Old Thu, Dec-03-20, 07:10
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Posts: 11,862
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/154/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 127%
Location: NC
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The Cancer Code is the best explanation of cancer for the person who does not want to get into the weeds. The nutrition chapter is Very Short, even fasting only has one page. It is more an update on the latest about the origins of cancer, and new treatments like immunology. A friend had Car-T three years ago and think this was the first time I understood how the treatment really works

I haven't been following Dr Fung closely in the past few years, but he now has a YouTube Channel. Newest post is A Beginners Guide to Fasting, under 10 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/c/drjasonfung1

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Dec-03-20 at 08:44.
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  #1372   ^
Old Thu, Dec-10-20, 04:57
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Posts: 11,862
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/154/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 127%
Location: NC
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I happened to tap Dr Fung's Twitter account this morning, and found this one hour lecture to Oncologists, with slides! It was a Zoom call on Vimeo, which he indicates will only be available a day or two more. He will likely give this lecture again, since much work on the slides, but if interested...it's a good talk and summary of book on how cancer develops. However, it leaves you hanging as he doesn't have time to even mention what to do about it.

Speaking of those slides...did anyone else have a hard time reading the illustrations in the print copy? It was printed in black & white from color slides which sometimes had almost no differentiation on the print page. And I know I'm old, but a few times had to break out a magnifying glass for the tiny print. Minor complaint, but hoping a paperback version fixes this. In the meantime, the color slides are in the talk above.

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Dec-10-20 at 05:56.
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  #1373   ^
Old Sat, Feb-27-21, 06:17
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,862
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/154/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 127%
Location: NC
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After years of trying various fasts, and watching Dr Fung's website become more commercial, I have noticed a definite move away from Fasting, especially Extended Fasting. (Doreen will be happy about this ).

Maybe because I hang out with the Dr Westman/Naiman/ Marty Kendall crowd, but I am surprised by all their members who write "tried extended fasting and only gained more weight" Marty has published one of his Keto Lies about this on his blog today.

Keto Lie #7: Fasting for longer is better

https://optimisingnutrition.com/ket...nger-is-better/

There can be other reasons for longer fasting, but do not expect weight loss to be the result. Mark Sisson has a new book to be published March 9th....titled Two Meals a Day. Can read about it on his website. When people write they IF...there is a substantial difference nutritionally between two meals a day and no meals in two days.

Last edited by JEY100 : Sat, Feb-27-21 at 06:23.
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  #1374   ^
Old Sat, Feb-27-21, 10:26
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,678
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
After years of trying various fasts, and watching Dr Fung's website become more commercial, I have noticed a definite move away from Fasting, especially Extended Fasting. (Doreen will be happy about this ).

Maybe because I hang out with the Dr Westman/Naiman/ Marty Kendall crowd, but I am surprised by all their members who write "tried extended fasting and only gained more weight" Marty has published one of his Keto Lies about this on his blog today.

Keto Lie #7: Fasting for longer is better

https://optimisingnutrition.com/ket...nger-is-better/

There can be other reasons for longer fasting, but do not expect weight loss to be the result. Mark Sisson has a new book to be published March 9th....titled Two Meals a Day. Can read about it on his website. When people write they IF...there is a substantial difference nutritionally between two meals a day and no meals in two days.

Fully agree, and IF seems to have evolved since the time people were doing multiple day fasting. I believe occasional IF for 24-36 hours can be beneficial for some (autophagy and toxin clearing); however, making it a frequent thing doesn't make sense. The evolution of IF has now progressed to meal timing and not eating for long periods of around 18 hours on a daily basis. For me, I've found this type of practice, which many refer to as IF, very beneficial. As mentioned, I'm very comfortable with 2 meals a day, and recent studies indicate people consuming 2 meals while not eating for a good portion of the day (usually from their last meal through the night to the next day) benefit the most. Will be interested in Sisson's book and how he approaches the topic.
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  #1375   ^
Old Sat, Feb-27-21, 15:46
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
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Posts: 4,166
 
Plan: HF/vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
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Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
The Cancer Code is the best explanation of cancer for the person who does not want to get into the weeds.
The point that struck me the most was that hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent trying to target individual trees (mutations) in the forests of cancer (with 1000s of mutations) with very little success. We need scientists who can think outside the box and target the forest.
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  #1376   ^
Old Sun, Feb-28-21, 04:41
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
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Location: USA
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For me, Mark Sisson hits the sweet spot where he dissects the science, points out where studies were botched, studies that haven't been done, and lets a person draw their own conclusions, for themselves.
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  #1377   ^
Old Sun, Feb-28-21, 05:53
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,862
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/154/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 127%
Location: NC
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Mark hits the sweet spot and is easy to read...good info, clearly presented, beautiful publications. Our library has the new book on order. Summary: https://www.marksdailyapple.com/two...all-diet-books/
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  #1378   ^
Old Mon, Mar-01-21, 08:22
chicachyna chicachyna is offline
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Posts: 230
 
Plan: my own LC
Stats: 179/135/145 Female 67 inches
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Progress: 129%
Location: Tucson
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Thank you, Janet for this link.
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  #1379   ^
Old Mon, Mar-01-21, 10:51
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,862
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/154/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 127%
Location: NC
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You're welcome. There are a number of other Intermittent Fasting resources on this thread Ann started:

https://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=484802
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  #1380   ^
Old Mon, May-03-21, 11:00
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
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Posts: 14,680
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
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Location: Ontario
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https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...10429123340.htm

Quote:
Fasting lowers blood pressure by reshaping the gut microbiota

Nearly half of adults in the United States have hypertension, a condition that raises the risk for heart disease and stroke, which are leading causes of death in the U. S.

At Baylor College of Medicine, Dr. David J. Durgan and his colleagues are dedicated to better understand hypertension, in particular the emerging evidence suggesting that disruption of the gut microbiota, known as gut dysbiosis, can have adverse effects on blood pressure.

"Previous studies from our lab have shown that the composition of the gut microbiota in animal models of hypertension, such as the SHRSP (spontaneously hypertensive stroke-prone rat) model, is different from that in animals with normal blood pressure," said Durgan, assistant professor of anesthesiology at Baylor.

The researchers also have shown that transplanting dysbiotic gut microbiota from a hypertensive animal into a normotensive (having a healthy blood pressure) one results in the recipient developing high blood pressure.

"This result told us that gut dysbiosis is not just a consequence of hypertension, but is actually involved in causing it," Durgan said. "This ground work led to the current study in which we proposed to answer two questions. First, can we manipulate the dysbiotic microbiota to either prevent or relieve hypertension? Second, how are the gut microbes influencing the animal's blood pressure?"

Can manipulating the gut microbiota regulate blood pressure?

To answer the first question, Durgan and his colleagues drew on previous research showing that fasting was both one of the major drivers of the composition of the gut microbiota and a promoter of beneficial cardiovascular effects. These studies, however, had not provided evidence connecting the microbiota and blood pressure.

Working with the SHRSP model of spontaneous hypertension and normal rats, the researchers set up two groups. One group had SHRSP and normal rats that were fed every other day, while the other group, called control, had SHRSP and normal rats with unrestricted food availability.

Nine weeks after the experiment began, the researchers observed that, as expected, the rats in the SHRSP control had higher blood pressure when compared to the normal control rats. Interestingly, in the group that fasted every other day, the SHRSP rats had significantly reduced blood pressure when compared with the SHRSP rats that had not fasted.

"Next, we investigated whether the microbiota was involved in the reduction of blood pressure we observed in the SHRSP rats that had fasted," Durgan said.

The researchers transplanted the microbiota of the rats that had either fasted or fed without restrictions into germ-free rats, which have no microbiota of their own.

Durgan and his colleagues were excited to see that the germ-free rats that received the microbiota of normally fed SHRSP rats had higher blood pressure than the germ-free rats receiving microbiota from normal control rats, just like their corresponding microbiota donors.

"It was particularly interesting to see that the germ-free rats that received microbiota from the fasting SHRSP rats had significantly lower the blood pressure than the rats that had received microbiota from SHRSP control rats," Durgan said. "These results demonstrated that the alterations to the microbiota induced by fasting were sufficient to mediate the blood pressure-lowering effect of intermitting fasting."

How the microbiota regulates blood pressure

The team proceeded to investigate the second question of their project. How does the gut microbiota regulate blood pressure?

"We applied whole genome shotgun sequence analysis of the microbiota as well as untargeted metabolomics analysis of plasma and gastrointestinal luminal content. Among the changes we observed, alterations in products of bile acid metabolism stood out as potential mediators of blood pressure regulation," Durgan said.

The team discovered that the SHRSP hypertensive animals that were fed normally had lower bile acids in circulation than normotensive animals. On the other hand, SHRSP animals that followed an intermittent feeding schedule had more bile acids in the circulation.

"Supporting this finding, we found that supplementing animals with cholic acid, a primary bile acid, also significantly reduced blood pressure in the SHRSP model of hypertension," Durgan said.

Taken together, the study shows for the first time that intermittent fasting can be beneficial in terms of reducing hypertension by reshaping the composition of gut microbiota in an animal model. The work also provides evidence that gut dysbiosis contributes to hypertension by altering bile acid signaling.

"This study is important to understand that fasting can have its effects on the host through microbiota manipulation," Durgan said. "This is an attractive idea because it can potentially have clinical applications. Many of the bacteria in the gut microbiota are involved in the production of compounds that have been shown to have beneficial effects as they make it into the circulation and contribute to the regulation of the host's physiology. Fasting schedules could one day help regulate the activity of gut microbial populations to naturally provide health benefits."


The gut bug stuff still needs more study, but I'm glad they're doing it.
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