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  #1   ^
Old Sun, Nov-24-19, 09:28
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default DrWestmanonlazydirtyketo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBmhcNCXUF4

Quote:
The Truth About Lazy Dirty Keto — Dr. Eric Westman [Presentation]


About 7 minutes...

I'm with him on this, the science for benefit from a low carb diet hasn't shown any real benefit from worrying about organic, grass-fed etc. I'd go further and even say that it hasn't shown a particular problem with omega 6 rich mayo, for that matter.
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  #2   ^
Old Sun, Nov-24-19, 09:56
Little Me's Avatar
Little Me Little Me is offline
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Plan: LC/GF
Stats: 208/174/168 Female 5'3
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Location: SoCal
Default

I like his style.
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  #3   ^
Old Sun, Nov-24-19, 12:06
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is online now
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Posts: 1,846
 
Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 50%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBmhcNCXUF4



About 7 minutes...

I'm with him on this, the science for benefit from a low carb diet hasn't shown any real benefit from worrying about organic, grass-fed etc. I'd go further and even say that it hasn't shown a particular problem with omega 6 rich mayo, for that matter.



I'll go watch the video later, but I will say that even though I think avoiding excess omega 6 might possibly offer some benefits to some people for certain problems (after having avoided all high omega 6 oils for a period of several months, then going back on those oils for several months, I'm still not convinced there was any difference at all for me), what I believe is that the bulk of the benefit of LC and Keto diets still comes from avoiding excess carbs, period. Stop eating the carby stuff, and most physical problems will be eliminated, or at least minimized.


If you still have a nagging problem, then try eliminating the omega 6 oils, or going organic and grass fed - but try one single change at a time, and stick to that one change for a period of at least several weeks (preferably several months) before making any other changes. That way, you can determine exactly which change is making the difference for you. If we're going to criticize the sorry state of "nutritional science" these days because they're not using proper scientific technique, then we need to exercise proper scientific technique with our own n=1 experiment.
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  #4   ^
Old Sun, Nov-24-19, 16:09
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thud123 thud123 is offline
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Plan: P:E=>1 (Q3-22)
Stats: 168/100/82 Male 182cm
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Progress: 79%
Default

“...I’m open to reading, listening and learning”

‘Nuff said
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  #5   ^
Old Sun, Nov-24-19, 22:49
Grav Grav is offline
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Plan: Banting
Stats: 302/187/187 Male 175cm
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Progress: 100%
Location: New Zealand
Default

Yeah, I think there's a pretty good practical argument behind what he's saying here.

You can aim for perfection as much as you like, obsessing over macros for this, apps for that, clean eating, whatever. But any progress you can make is still beneficial, even if it's not considered 100% ideal for the purists.

You don't have to get it completely right all of the time, you just have to get it right enough most of the time to still make a tangible difference, by whatever measure(s) you're tracking over that time.
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  #6   ^
Old Mon, Nov-25-19, 02:58
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WereBear WereBear is online now
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Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

I'm a classic example of getting deep into the weeds: carnivore, NO omega-6s, vitamin supplementation. But I was really sick; already out at the margins. Started the year at about a 4, now I'm a 7.

Now, I've been loosening up, like eating commercial mayo at the work cafeteria, and it's not so crucial. I eat salad greens, but that's all, since all other vegetables still don't agree with me.

So if someone's health is marginal, they might have to go out on the margins.
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, Nov-25-19, 09:07
Zei Zei is offline
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Plan: Carb reduction in general
Stats: 230/185/180 Female 5 ft 9 in
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Progress: 90%
Location: Texas
Default

I like what he said about people who can't afford more than MacD's still succeeding. Even those eating places are above what I'm interested in paying in order to stretch limited food money. I found a grocery store that occasionally marks down meat super cheap to get rid of rather than throw out and I stock up, since I'm currently eating sort of dirty carnivore with lots of beef. After finding Dr. Ted Naiman's protein to energy diet my weight has gone down well beyond what keto/LCHF could do for me, so right now accessing the amount of protein foods I need to stay on plan outweighs eating "cleaner" sources in much reduced amounts to hold down cost. That being said, I don't presently have health issues that necessitate the higher quality animal foods. Plants and pesticide etc. concerns are a different matter. More careful with those.
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Nov-25-19, 09:12
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teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 15,075
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

I'm sort of on the margins myself, the diet I've settled on is more ketogenic than the clinical Atkins diet Westman had as his starting point. But I still see eat mostly meat and eggs, a bit of the very lowest carb veggies as sort of the standard to improvise from. From a compliance perspective--I find it easy enough to stick to basic Atkins that when I slip from my more strict ketogenic higher fat/controlled protein approach, it's mostly on page 4 foods anyways. The more keto approach helps me with mood/anxiety and also addresses a long-term nagging shoulder issue, so there are consequences, but I still get lots of benefit versus where I was on a pizza and ramen-noodle based diet.
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  #9   ^
Old Mon, Nov-25-19, 22:00
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Posts: 2,573
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/150/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
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Progress: 72%
Location: NE WA
Default

Being diabetic, I do have to keep track of my carbs & protein so I don't end up with too much, but that's as far as I go. Anything more would be too difficult for me to stick with.

But as for the "dirty" part - I agree with that! We're low income so can't afford anything fancy. I get excellent hamburger & other beef cuts on sale, same for store-brand butter. We also get food boxes for low income & elderly. We pass on the carby stuff in the box, but keep the canned tuna & chicken. At first I didn't like the chicken, but finally worked out some great recipes. By the time I'm done with it you usually can't even tell it's canned chicken!
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  #10   ^
Old Mon, Nov-25-19, 23:29
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
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Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

I like the simplicity of an eating plan that doesn't force me to "sweat the small stuff." That's how I approach a LCKD WOE. Thanks for the link. Dr. Westman has always advocated an approach making it easy to prepare healthy foods at home or eat out at restaurants.
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Nov-26-19, 02:48
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WereBear WereBear is online now
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Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

I've had great success with any low carb plan I've tried. The point is to low carb.
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, Nov-26-19, 08:07
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is online now
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Posts: 1,846
 
Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 50%
Default

Finally had a chance to watch the video - then got sucked down the rabbit hole of you tube videos, and watched a couple of Butter Bob's videos. He's a tiny bit more purist than Westman, but it's still the same basic message - do LC/keto with foods that are as close as you can get to how we ate 50+ years ago, and don't worry too much about the organic/grass fed/macro issues.


Unless of course you have the kind of problems that WereBear has dealt with, and find that you really need to do more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
I'm a classic example of getting deep into the weeds: carnivore, NO omega-6s, vitamin supplementation. But I was really sick; already out at the margins. Started the year at about a 4, now I'm a 7.

Now, I've been loosening up, like eating commercial mayo at the work cafeteria, and it's not so crucial. I eat salad greens, but that's all, since all other vegetables still don't agree with me.

So if someone's health is marginal, they might have to go out on the margins.



For some, it will definitely take more than simply LCing - when your health has been compromised in so many ways by SAD, it can take a lot more to right the problems. Glad you're finally to the point where you don't need to be quite so strict 100% of the time.



I find it interesting that you can eat salad greens, but all other vegetables still cause problems - I have pretty much the opposite issue. Eating salad greens can almost always insure an immediate rush trip to the bathroom. I don't have that issue with other LC veggies, and not with cooked spinach or cooked kale either, just raw greens. Now that I think about it, it may just be the raw veggie factor, since I generally don't eat any veggies raw, except for salad greens.
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  #13   ^
Old Tue, Nov-26-19, 09:15
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is online now
Posts: 8,757
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Default

I remember eating 50 years ago. Almost all that I ate was junk food full of carbs. Maybe 150 years ago the world ate healthier foods.
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  #14   ^
Old Tue, Nov-26-19, 11:07
Zei Zei is offline
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Posts: 1,596
 
Plan: Carb reduction in general
Stats: 230/185/180 Female 5 ft 9 in
BF:
Progress: 90%
Location: Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
I remember eating 50 years ago. Almost all that I ate was junk food full of carbs. Maybe 150 years ago the world ate healthier foods.

Oh, yeah. Brings back memories of Crisco, hydrogenated margarine, home-cooked versions of tacos, burgers, fries, donuts, pizza...because real fast food was expensive. Plus all those delicious home-made desserts. Who came up with the idea cooking at home from scratch was automatically supposed to be so healthy, anyway? There is one advantage I've seen, which is that even if cooking frank junk food at home the list of ingredients is so much shorter without all those weird sounding additives, so I suppose there is some truth to the idea even when the menu isn't necessarily healthy.
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Nov-26-19, 11:29
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Posts: 2,573
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/150/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: NE WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zei
Who came up with the idea cooking at home from scratch was automatically supposed to be so healthy, anyway? There is one advantage I've seen, which is that even if cooking frank junk food at home the list of ingredients is so much shorter without all those weird sounding additives, so I suppose there is some truth to the idea even when the menu isn't necessarily healthy.


I love old cook books & play around with old recipes. I no longer make the desserts, but many of the meat recipes are both good & healthful! At least lc healthful - the amount of fat disturbs a lot of modern people. I was surprised by an early hamburger recipe that called for the leftover fat to be poured over the burgers (something I was already doing). Quite a departure from the modern idea of draining & tossing the fat.

Vintage vegetable recipes are iffy - way too many call for bread, flour, and/or corn starch. Get into the '50s & you get recipes that require cream of whatever condensed soups. But I got some of my favorite lc salad recipes from an old Watkins Salad book.
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