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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Feb-07-07, 21:53
2bthinner!'s Avatar
2bthinner! 2bthinner! is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,371
 
Plan: Intermittent Fasting, LC
Stats: 242/215/130 Female 5'7.5"
BF:too/dang/much
Progress: 24%
Location: Florida
Default Study: HDL, or 'good' cholesterol looks better

But they are STILL trying to give the credit to statins. I think it's us covert low carbers! Or maybe it's the doctors who are covert, cause I flat out tell mine I'm doing low carb..

http://www.wkyc.com/news/health/hea...x?storyid=62777

MIAMI, Fla. -- A study released Wednesday brings into sharper focus the healing power of "good" cholesterol.
Researchers report that they have linked an increased level of good cholesterol, or HDL, with a reduction in the amount of plaque clogging up patients' arteries.

The findings are likely to accelerate research into HDL, which until recently was largely overlooked in the push to develop drugs that can reduce the risk of heart attacks and strokes.

Even now, the National Cholesterol Education Program guidelines that doctors rely on to reduce heart disease risk focus less on raising HDL than on the crucial need to reduce amounts of LDL, the so-called bad cholesterol.

HEART HEALTH: Costly bypass medication may raise death risk later

"We've always assumed, 'It's the LDL, stupid,' " says study co-author Steven Nissen of the Cleveland Clinic. "But we've now learned that pushing up HDL confers a substantial proportion of the benefit."

LDL is bad because it ferries fats into the blood, where it can build up within artery walls.

HDL relieves artery inflammation and carries fats out of the bloodstream.

The focus began to shift to HDL in 2003.

Nissen and his colleagues reported then that an unusual type of good cholesterol, called apoA-1 Milano, first found in a 49-year-old Italian man, could reverse plaque buildup in patients' arteries.

Until then, only high-dose niacin was proven to raise HDL, but niacin can cause flushing and other side effects.

The apoA-1 Milano discovery fueled a race to discover new HDL-raising drugs. Pfizer alone poured more than $800 million into torceptrapib, which raised HDL by 60%. But the drug was shelved in December because of a higher-than-expected death rate among study participants.

More evidence of HDL's importance comes from Wednesday's analysis of nearly 1,500 patients in four studies of LDL-lowering statin drugs.

The research, which appears in the Journal of the American Medical Association, found that patients' clogged arteries began to clear when statins drove their LDL levels down to 87.5 milligrams per deciliter of blood and their HDL up by 7.5%.

Researchers say the analysis is the first to show that the benefit of statins partly derives from their power to raise HDL.

"These drugs don't push HDL up very much, but whatever they're doing, it's important," Nissen says.

Michael Ozner, director of cardiovascular prevention at the Baptist Health System in Miami, says the study probably will prompt doctors to rethink how they treat heart disease.

"This is going to have a direct impact on patient management because not all statins have the same impact on (raising) HDL cholesterol. Some are more robust than others."

By Steve Sternberg, USA TODAY
© 2007

usatoday.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quote:
Nissen and his colleagues reported then that an unusual type of good cholesterol, called apoA-1 Milano, first found in a 49-year-old Italian man, could reverse plaque buildup in patients' arteries.

Wonder if he eats low carb?
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Feb-08-07, 09:27
brobin's Avatar
brobin brobin is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 470
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 231/172/175 Male 70 inches
BF:30%/19%/17%
Progress: 105%
Location: Ontario
Default

I just had blood work done. My HDL was 1.6 (with is around 61 in the US). My ratio was 3.5.

The nurse said... wow, your profile is awesome and your HDL is right at the top of the range.. what do you do?

I replied; "simple, its called Atkins and exercise, both proven to raise HDL, drug free".

She asked if I ate a lot of bacon, I said not really, but when I do, I never eat it straight. I always wash it down with eggs and cheese. :P

Brobin
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  #3   ^
Old Thu, Feb-08-07, 09:28
JL53563's Avatar
JL53563 JL53563 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,209
 
Plan: The Real Human Diet
Stats: 225/165/180 Male 5'8"
BF:?/?/8.6%
Progress: 133%
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Default

Quote:
Until then, only high-dose niacin was proven to raise HDL, but niacin can cause flushing and other side effects.


Eating lots of fat, especially saturated fat, will raise HDL. Of course they will never recommend that.
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Feb-08-07, 10:40
Rachel1 Rachel1 is offline
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Posts: 1,418
 
Plan: Atkins/IF
Stats: 12/06/04 Female 5' 1.5
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: Vancouver BC, Canada
Default

Many, if not most, LCers will second brobin. My HDL continues to rise and my ratios to improve the longer I'm on Atkins. From HDL 68 and ratio 3.6 back in 2001, after about a year low-carbing, to HDL 93 and ratio 2.4 last May. If Atkins is going to kill me, it won't be by raising my heart attack risk.

Rachel
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Feb-08-07, 10:46
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,757
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Default

Quote:
The apoA-1 Milano discovery fueled a race to discover new HDL-raising drugs. Pfizer alone poured more than $800 million into torceptrapib, which raised HDL by 60%. But the drug was shelved in December because of a higher-than-expected death rate among study participants.
This tells me that forcing the body to increase HDL is not healthy. High HDL may well be a symptom of good heath, rather than a cause of it.
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Feb-08-07, 16:17
LC FP LC FP is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,162
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 228/195/188 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 83%
Location: Erie PA
Default

Quote:
torceptrapib

Torcetrabib blocks the enzyme CETP that ferries cholesterol from HDL to LDL, and triglycerides from LDL back to HDL. Block the enzyme, and HDL doesn't "leak" its cholesterol and can carry it back to the liver, for "processing", or whatever. HDL cholesterol goes up a lot when you take torcetrabip.

But there are some people who have congenitally defective CETP, and they have very high HDL. Unfortunately for them their heart disease rates are no better than anyone else's. There's something special about native HDL other than how much cholesterol it's carrying.
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  #7   ^
Old Thu, Feb-08-07, 18:06
arc's Avatar
arc arc is offline
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Posts: 1,186
 
Plan: Meat Only
Stats: 200/169.6/175 Male 5'11''
BF:
Progress: 122%
Location: Eastern WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LC FP
There's something special about native HDL other than how much cholesterol it's carrying.


Maybe it is the things that tend to raise HDL, exercise and eating saturated fat, that is healthy, more than the HDL itself.
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  #8   ^
Old Thu, Feb-08-07, 18:15
kneebrace kneebrace is offline
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Posts: 1,429
 
Plan: atkins/ IF
Stats: 162/128/130 Male 175
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brobin

She asked if I ate a lot of bacon, I said not really, but when I do, I never eat it straight. I always wash it down with eggs and cheese. :P

Brobin


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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Feb-09-07, 13:09
JL53563's Avatar
JL53563 JL53563 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,209
 
Plan: The Real Human Diet
Stats: 225/165/180 Male 5'8"
BF:?/?/8.6%
Progress: 133%
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by arc
Maybe it is the things that tend to raise HDL, exercise and eating saturated fat, that is healthy, more than the HDL itself.


Hmmm, that's an interesting notion. But that may be like trying to figure out which came first....the ckicken or the egg.
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Feb-09-07, 13:29
CNYMom's Avatar
CNYMom CNYMom is offline
Currently Fascinated
Posts: 3,370
 
Plan: M&E/Atkins
Stats: 225/150/125 Female 5'2"
BF:Quite Possibly
Progress: 75%
Location: Central NY, USA
Default

Some random bloodwork awhile back found my HDL to be low (~30). The choices my doctor gave me are:

1) Lose weight
2) Quit smoking
3) Take niacin
4) Drink a glass of red wine every day

She told me to pick two and stick with them. I fired her (for other reasons), but this bit of advice stuck with me. I quit smoking 18 months ago, I take Niacin, and I'm working on the weight. It'll be interesting to see what my HDL levels are next time I go for bloodwork. I do know I've had less occurences of the irregular/rapid heartbeat since beginning to regularly take niacin and working on the weight.
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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Feb-09-07, 14:10
Angeline's Avatar
Angeline Angeline is offline
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Posts: 3,423
 
Plan: Atkins (loosely)
Stats: -/-/- Female 60
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Default

I would have thought that you would have picked option 4 first!.

I'm sure that you have your reasons for changing doctor, but I'm impressed that she didn't try to prescribe statins.

Maybe to that list should be added :

Drink as many cups of coffee per day as you can stand.
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, Feb-09-07, 17:28
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
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Posts: 10,147
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

I've been LC for four years, and a regular exerciser for a lot longer than that. My doctor just shakes his head in wonder at my HDL count of 140. (LDL 98). Pass me the coconut oil, please. Oh, and pop the cork on that nice Pinot Noir.
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  #13   ^
Old Fri, Feb-09-07, 20:39
2bthinner!'s Avatar
2bthinner! 2bthinner! is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,371
 
Plan: Intermittent Fasting, LC
Stats: 242/215/130 Female 5'7.5"
BF:too/dang/much
Progress: 24%
Location: Florida
Default

WOW
Quote:
My doctor just shakes his head in wonder at my HDL count of 140. (LDL 98). Pass me the coconut oil, please. Oh, and pop the cork on that nice Pinot Noir.

What's your total? I'm just curious. I think that if mine were over 200, he's still going to try to prescripe statins. I'll just tell him no again.. I tried to discuss ratios and he's telling me mine aren't good. Alrighty then..
TC 235
HDL 67
LDL 150
Tri 64
I was reading where drinking black tea will lower LDL. This actually makes sense as I cut way back on tea when my iron was low. (tea binds iron) And my LDL went up right after he had me take iron pills. I've read where those (iron pills) will increase your LDL too. So, of course, I'm not taking those anymore either!
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  #14   ^
Old Sat, Feb-10-07, 06:41
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,147
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

Teresa, my total cholesterol is about 250. As a total, that would make most doctors blanch, but consider the proportions. Before LC, it could run as low as 167, still with a good ratio. So I don't have a historical tendency towards high total cholesterol. (I'll try to look up some more historical numbers for you when I get back to the office on Monday.)

I give exercise credit for the high HDL. But my dietary choices don't hurt me. If I were you, I'd definitely go for an exercise plan to help increase your HDL, at the same time you take some dietary steps to decrease LDL. Don't take medical advice from strangers on the web, but IMHO--keep resisting those statin drugs. The only thing they decrease is the money in your pocket.

BTW, your trigyceride count--a clearer indicator of heart risk than cholesterol--is fine. Mine is 57.
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  #15   ^
Old Sat, Feb-10-07, 07:18
2bthinner!'s Avatar
2bthinner! 2bthinner! is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,371
 
Plan: Intermittent Fasting, LC
Stats: 242/215/130 Female 5'7.5"
BF:too/dang/much
Progress: 24%
Location: Florida
Default

bkloots
Thanks for answering. I will keep saying no to statins. I told him flat out that they've been taking those off the market right and left for killing people and I'm not taking them. It got to the point I had to almost yell.

My mom will take the script, but she won't fill it. She said she did once and it is just too expensive. I told her they won't do her any good anyway. That they haven't been shown to benefit women. (She's not had any heart attack, I'm not sure what her numbers are, I don't think she knows)

Tri number, yeah, I thought he'd make a comment about it, or about my HDL. I mean it shows up in the abnormal column! I think all he could see was the LDL. I am working on the exercise. My horse tore a tendon, which takes months to heal in them. So, I've been unable to ride. I have still been mucking the stall though! I do need to do more regular exercise. I'd like to go back to the gym. At least I could walk on the treadmill when it's raining. And I did lift weights. The military press was quite helpful in saddling the horse. Easier to lift the saddle higher than my shoulders.. I can actually "place" the saddle instead of kinda flinging it up there!

Thanks again!
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