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  #1   ^
Old Sun, Oct-20-19, 09:12
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Default Is diet soda more dangerous than sugar-sweetened beverages?

I receive Peter Attia's newsletter by email. This week's topic is the evaluation of an observational (epidemiological) study with the title, "Is diet soda more dangerous than sugar-sweetened beverages?"

Given the number of times we've discussed this on the forum, I thought it might be of interest, particularly Attia's conclusion in the following summary. However you think, there is no conclusive evidence one way or another, as Attia observes. There are some who do very well with artificially sweetened beverages (ASBs) and some who don't.

The real focus is on whether we should believe studies and why, which ones are more evidential, and how to tell the difference. Richard Feinman, a poster on this forum, wrote the book, "The World Turned Upside Down," with similar observations, also an excellent resource to help people sort through the babble that gets published and reported. It's a crazy world out there with much poorly founded information floating through the ether masquerading as facts.

Summary of study by Attia:
Quote:
Is drinking diet soda going to lead you to an early grave? This study does not answer that question nor does it bring us any closer to answering that question. Nor will “more research” on the long-term effects of consuming artificial sweeteners if “more research” means more observational epidemiology. We can apply the same point here that one of my mentors made to me in explaining meta-analyses: “a hundred sow’s ears makes not a pearl necklace.” Piling up inadequate studies that can’t determine cause and effect while bemoaning the expensiveness of RCTs suggests to me we need to think about how we’re allocating our resources. Yes, long-term clinical trials are expensive, difficult to conduct, and will have limitations. But there’s one very important distinction between RCTs and the vast majority of observational epidemiological studies on diet and health: at least RCTs are not dead on arrival.

Link to study report:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...319&appId=scweb

Link to Attia's detailed article about studies:
https://peterattiamd.com/ns003/
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  #2   ^
Old Sun, Oct-20-19, 09:51
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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DD's x-boss has Alzheimer now and he is in his late 50s. She told me he use to live on diet Coke!
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  #3   ^
Old Sun, Oct-20-19, 11:16
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cotonpal cotonpal is online now
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Plan: very low carb real food
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111

The real focus is on whether we should believe studies and why, which ones are more evidential, and how to tell the difference. Richard Feinman, a poster on this forum, wrote the book, "The World Turned Upside Down," with similar observations, also an excellent resource to help people sort through the babble that gets published and reported. It's a crazy world out there with much poorly founded information floating through the ether masquerading as facts.



One thing that Richard Feinman said in his book that has stuck with me is that the term "nutritional science" is an oxymoron. I no longer pay any attention to these kind of studies. Garbage in is always garbage out.
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  #4   ^
Old Sun, Oct-20-19, 16:04
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teaser teaser is offline
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No. Now I'll go back and actually read the thread.
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  #5   ^
Old Sun, Oct-20-19, 16:09
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teaser teaser is offline
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Okay, I've read the thread now, and the abstract. Yeah, no. This is nonsense.
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  #6   ^
Old Mon, Oct-21-19, 06:31
Zei Zei is offline
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Less than stellar dietary (in this case drink) choices correlated with less than stellar health. I seriously doubt those who consumed the most daily soft drinks (regardless of how sweetened) were likely to be extremely health-conscious people otherwise eating very healthy foods, exercising, etc. Such that soft drink consumption becomes a marker for poor health choices in general regardless of sweetener type. I don't consider artificial sweeteners healthy but personally would get a lot worse effect from sugars.
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, Oct-21-19, 15:26
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Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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When I was taught that coke would clean the acid/corrosion off of car battery terminals, I knew that this was not something that humans should drink.
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Oct-21-19, 16:39
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teaser teaser is offline
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I don't really understand why whether coke cleans battery terminals matters to the healthfulness of the stuff. Not arguing that coke is healthful, I just don't understand how that's relevant. I mean, you can also clean them with vinegar or lemon juice or baking soda... none of those are particularly harmful.
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Oct-22-19, 01:28
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Ambulo Ambulo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I don't really understand why whether coke cleans battery terminals matters to the healthfulness of the stuff. Not arguing that coke is healthful, I just don't understand how that's relevant. I mean, you can also clean them with vinegar or lemon juice or baking soda... none of those are particularly harmful.


This reminds me of my dad trying to lower my consumption of tomato ketchup by showing me how it cleans a penny. Fail.
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, Oct-22-19, 10:30
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Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Vinegar cleans corrosion too. Lots of people use it on salads.

This study reminds me of the carrots cause car accidents study. Most people eat carrots within 48 hours of a car accident.
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Oct-22-19, 10:44
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zei
Less than stellar dietary (in this case drink) choices correlated with less than stellar health. I seriously doubt those who consumed the most daily soft drinks (regardless of how sweetened) were likely to be extremely health-conscious people otherwise eating very healthy foods, exercising, etc. Such that soft drink consumption becomes a marker for poor health choices in general regardless of sweetener type. I don't consider artificial sweeteners healthy but personally would get a lot worse effect from sugars.


This, so much. It's like red meat gets skewed in these reports because we've been told how unhealthy it is. So who is eating it? People who don't care, and us
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, Oct-22-19, 10:45
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Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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How many different chemicals are in a can of Coke, does anybody know?
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  #13   ^
Old Tue, Oct-22-19, 10:46
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
How many different chemicals are in a can of Coke, do you know?


It's the acidity.

https://www.reagent.co.uk/the-scien...ind-a-soda-can/
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  #14   ^
Old Tue, Oct-22-19, 13:29
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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It is made up of mostly Dihydrogen monoxide. One of the deadliest chemicals known to humankind.
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Oct-22-19, 15:32
Zei Zei is offline
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Hey, dihydrogen monoxide is highly associated with drownings. Dangerous stuff! Speaking of which, I'm going to go swim in the stuff. Eek!
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