Aha! From the plant paradox guy:



I didn't find a thing about dairy and lectins from any reputable paleo/primal source.

Geez, the crap that floats around on the internet

I read about it a long time ago but I think it said that the fresh milk has to be labeled and sold for animal consumption.

Cheese must be different.

IDK why the TX cheese maker won't sell out of state.

TX raw milk is legal (for humans) purchased at the farm only. Sounds like Mass. is the same. I thought it ironic in Wisconsin, aka America's Dairyland (on the car license plates) raw milk is illegal. Someone living there thinks it's because the conventional dairy guys don't want the competition. There were rumors a few years back about a possible ban on Irish Kerrygold butter there to stop putting a dent in sales of WI butter, but as far as I know it just stayed a rumor, nothing more. Big industry lots of people's livelihoods depend on. Dr. Gundry's (Plant Paradox guy) dairy concern is all about the A1 casein milk protein, which he considers sort of lectin-like in the sense it is a protein (plant lectins are proteins, too) that may have deleterious effects, at least for some people. I follow his lists and ideas for avoiding plant lectins and consider them pretty decent but no longer avoid A1 dairy and do eat quite a bit more meat than his belief system is comfortable with.

Dr. Jack Kruse is also concerned about the A1, and this branched me out into goat and sheep, which are delicious. All of his suggestions tend to work for me very well.

I think if someone has a problem with dairy, it might be a problem with the A1. Sticking with leaves, berries, cheese, and meat, is following the information in Death by Food Pyramid. Far north herding societies seems to be my genetics, and their food agrees with me more than any other.

This excellent work is still the only book I've read which emphasizes the enzyme patterns we inherit. That is what determines what we can digest, which should be the first stop in figuring out our own best diets.

We have people on the forum who love veggies and do well with them, but I carried my dislike for them from childhood right up to now And I've discovered it is because they don't like me.

Too much fiber for my guts, which I healed when I went gluten-free. It was amazing how cravings dwindled and vanished when I completely eliminated all veggies. I added them in slowly and carefully and in condiment amounts.

The salad leaves are the only ones I can eat every day without digestive distress. Cucumbers and tomatoes and peppers are botanical fruits Like coconut; those coconut wraps have me enjoying sandwiches again.

I've just run out of personal patience with the "reflexive plant" crowd. They are wrong about the humane angle, the climate concern, and their embrace of so much processed food, especially soy. Why should I listen to them when I have finally found something which works for me?

When even a "plant guy" warns about lectins, they are bad news for LOTS of people; that I can confidently state.

I've read before about the difference between A1 & A2, cow's milk & goat's milk, & a memory finally fell into place!

When my mother was born (1928), grandma was very ill & couldn't nurse mom or her twin. They were given cow's milk; my aunt had no problem with it, but mom couldn't tolerate it. She was given goat's milk, but even with that, her body had a preference. When given milk from the sweet-smelling goat, she'd throw up. But milk from the stinky goat was perfect for her. Grandpa complained about that for years!

But now I'm wondering if she passed on her inability to handle cow's milk protein to me & my kids. No one else in the family has mentioned it, so I'm guessing they didn't get that.

We have a local goat dairy that makes cheese. I've not bought it too often as it's pricey, but now that I've given up cheddar, I might as well spend that money on goat cheese. I'll have to try the different varieties & see what works with which recipes.

I was mis-diagnosed as lactose-intolerant and skipped dairy for years until I started Atkins, discovered cheese is low in lactose, and had ZERO problems. It wasn't the cheese - it was the crackers! It wasn't the milk - it was the cereal!

It was, in microcosm, the likely reason cold cuts have such a bad health reputation: because they are ALWAYS served on bread.

At the time, I went online for help coping with avoiding dairy, and early on stumbled onto a discussion of which brand of goat milk was "less goaty." Ironically, I now love goat cheese!

Werebear - where do you find "coconut wraps"?

Here they are on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/NUCO-Certifi...t/dp/B01INZMV1E

And I get them at my local health food store, too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lectin

Animals have lectins.

There's a class of macromolecules that have the potential to trigger an immune response called proteins. A protein-free diet is inadvisable. A lectin-free diet isn't advisable either, not because we need lectins, but because it would have to be a purified people-chow type diet.

Lectins in a pork chop probably won't do you any harm. Raw beans can be deadly. You can see why lectins are problematic in that bit above--because they play important roles in normal human and other animal metabolism, plants can develop lectins that hack the system, causing harm or otherwise affecting animals in ways beneficial to the plant.

This is a deep well, it's not just "lectins bad."

re coconut wraps: I'd never heard of these before but instantly wondered if they'd be a good substitute for the "Flat-out" low carb wraps that I occasionally buy. Flat-outs are big enough that half a wrap is all one needs to make a sandwich wrap...but they do all contain gluten and I do try to limit the amount of that I eat.

I looked at the ingredients list which says there are only 3 ingredients (organic coconut water, organic coconut meat, and organic extra virgin coconut oil)...all things I use on a regular basis. Furthermore, the package says they're RAW and that there is no need to refrigerate or freeze the wraps.

Makes me really wonder how the heck these things hold together! I mean, assuming one could figure out the proper ratio of ingredients, they shouldn't be that hard to make...probably just toss all ingredients (in the right proportions) into a food processor and then roll them out or maybe pour the blend out into a thin layer and allow to dry/set somewhat. Given the price for a packet containing only 5 wraps, I think I'd rather experiment with making my own rather than buying.

Werebear, could you enlighten us a bit more about this product? I see the packet says each wrap is 7"x7" but no info on approx how thick they are. Are they about the thickness of flour or corn tortillas or more like those super thin rice-paper spring-roll wrappers that I used to buy pre-LC?

Are they brittle or soft? Do you need to warm them up in a MW or soak them in water to soften before using?

Is the texture bread-like or possibly more like fruit-leather?

Do they taste overwhelmingly of coconut?

Do they tend to have a dry mouth-feel? When I make mug muffins with coconut flour, I always have to use more butter or cream cheese on them to overcome the "dry mouth" thing than I do with almond meal muffins or flax muffins.

Whatever you're willing to share.... Inquiring minds want to know.

1. An old Lithuanuan healer beleived in NO fresh milk for healthy adults.

2. An aunt had dairy goats for her husband with cancer. He was a delight and I was happy to have met him before he passed.

Raw milk was banned long ago because of listeria and other bacteria causiing a lit of deaths. Thus us when fluid milk started getting shipped yo cities...
Allowing raw milk sales again has been a great feat and only for those dairies that can pass a higher level of safety.

A local dairy had a customer die of listeria acquired from his pasurized milk. It closed him down forever. The barn has caved in and the house a derelict.

This is why states are reluctant to allow raw products. Better to orevent one death than recognize chronic poor health from commercial pasurized cow milk.

Imho, raw is healthier than pasturized. Counter to my university learning in animal ag.

This might be the reason my "low plant" tactics are working so well for me. Humans living in an area for thousands of years would adapt to the local plant life, just as Europeans have a higher tolerance for grains and sugar than Indigenous, you have only encountered them the last few hundred years.

I have tried the Nuco - 5 to package and the Sunfood - 7 in a package

Nucos are softer, more like a conventional flour wrap, though lacking the "springingness" of gluten. The Sunfood are rougher and thicker, less flexible, though freshness helps there, as I developed a liking and started getting at them towards the beginning of their storage cycle at my local health food store

Both can be helped along with a sprinkle of water and a zap in the microwave, though I usually don't bother. They aren't fragile or crumbly and hold together well.

Nucos have more of a classic texture, while the Sunfood has a certain brittleness. In fact, those can sometimes be snapped in half if it's been a while and I don't bother with the microwave, but then they work as verythin crust pizza. I microwave with cheese and toppings, then dip in the tomato sauce.

For deli, I use Primal Kitchen mayo or hemp oil & ACV, so I don't have dryness problems With coconut's ability to really soak up liquid, I'm sure the amount of oil would be crucial for the texture you are seeking. Here again, the Sunfood brand is more cracker-like, while the Nuco is more wrap-py.

Taste is difficult to tell, since I drink coffee with coconut oil every morning and I don't even taste the coconut anymore In any case, it is a taste I've always liked, and it has never interfered with the enjoyment of my sandwich. Since they are ALL coconut, that's to be expected, but when you open the package, the smell is not overwhelming, if that helps.

Yup, they are pricey, but my current plan is ALL pricey, real, food. When I consider the price per package is about what I saw for people buying pies and boxes of pastry all around me this holiday season, I am content I am getting far more nutrition for the money than they are.

Not to mention that the price of potato chips per pound is = to the PPP of Filet Mignon!

I had to buy two bags of chips recently (not for me) and I couldn't believe was paying $16 for two bags....

All of the processed snack foods are very expensive. Dog treats are also very expensive per pound. I by cheaps meats use them for snacks for dogs as the PPP for the meat is much less than the dog snacks.