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  #181   ^
Old Sat, Jul-17-21, 17:26
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,443
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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New podcast with Dr Ted, his message is on target.
https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects...i=1000529107040

Someone on Twitter had put together a Ted Naiman playlist…think was 65 podcasts, sadly cannot find it again! but he has been on a lot of them, including the one with Marty Kendall, now in shorter segments, the full hour + and YouTube to see the charts.

Last edited by JEY100 : Sun, Jul-18-21 at 01:58.
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  #182   ^
Old Sun, Jul-18-21, 09:04
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,044
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
High praise from Dr Michael Eades:

https://ckarchive.com/b/68ueh8h889q3

Dr. Naiman bases his program on the protein-leverage hypothesis derived by David Raubenheimer, PhD. and Stephen Simpson, PhD., researchers from Australia who worked together at Oxford. Dr. Naiman's patients have great results with his program as has he himself, as you can see from his photos. I have no doubt that substituting protein for carbohydrate will bring about weight loss and improvements in health, but I'm not so sure about the mechanism of the protein-leverage hypothesis.

In essence, what the protein-leverage hypothesis hypothesizes is that animals eat until they meet their protein requirements, then they quit. If they eat a high-carb, low-protein diet, they will consume a lot of carb calories until they finally meet their protein requirements, then they'll quit eating. Same with high fat and low protein. Animals will feed on a high-fat, low-protein diet until they hit their protein threshold, then quit. But in both cases, they will over consume either carb or fat calories trying to get enough protein.


This is a valid endorsement. I favor the way Dr. Naiman explains the importance of protein and how people will consume food to the point where their protein requirements are satisfied regardless of the type of macros and quality of food consumed. This is an important point and makes developing an optimum WOE far easier than alternatives. For the last couple years, I've increased protein, moderated fats, and managed carbs by eating low glycemic, healthy (above-ground) veggies. It makes all the difference for me, and being aware that we are all different in terms of an optimum WOE, taking a patient approach to discovering one's optimal WOE is something everyone can accomplish with very simple guidelines and the willingness to adjust over time.
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  #183   ^
Old Sun, Jul-18-21, 10:43
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,793
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 212/179/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Rural Maine
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I read the same newsletter from Dr. Eades. He does go on to say that the meticulous studies were all done on insects. The only study done on humans was not very scientific (I've taken just a few of the pertinent paragraphs to illustrate the point):

Quote:
Turns out the undergraduate had just the setup they had been looking for to run their study. Her family had a Swiss chalet in an isolated valley in the Alps. The plan was for the undergraduate to recruit a group of ten friends and family and have them all gather at the remote chalet for a week of experimentation "without caffeine, alcohol, or chocolate, to become human locusts."


Quote:
A year or so later, the authors went to a retreat where they finally crunched the data from the undergraduate experiment, and it happened to match their insect data perfectly. So, as they describe it, they were then ready to proclaim their hypothesis to the world.


Quote:
Right after their discussion of the undergraduate study, they mention that it wasn't Grade A work to have a small group of students do a study like this. In fact, they said it "was just a suggestion rather than an answer." And they were right.

But throughout the rest of the book they would mention their meticulously done insect experiments and then, in the same breath, mention how those results were borne out in their human experiments. By the time one is halfway through the book, it appears that the human study--sort of loosely conducted by an undergrad and her friends on vacation--was the equivalent in rigor as all the insect work.

The authors run through a number of experiments they and others have done in diverse creatures. They discover their notions of the protein-leverage hypothesis hold true in these other animals, including a number of monkeys. But not so in gorillas, which apparently are not followers of the protein-leverage hypothesis. After discussing how gorilla dietary behavior was different, they drop this jewel of a sentence:

We now knew that different primates differed in their responses to variations in dietary balance in the wild--spider monkeys were like humans, and gorillas were not.

Note the mention of humans. Casually tossed off as if they had been intensively studied, when what they're referring to is the undergraduate vacation experiment.

Later on the authors discuss how gorillas are more like predators, which do not apparently follow the rules of the protein-leverage hypothesis. I, myself, think humans would be more like predators, the findings of the undergrad study be damned.


I'm not disagreeing with the protein leverage hypothesis. In fact, it makes total sense to me, especially in light of my own experiences. Just providing more of the story.
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  #184   ^
Old Sun, Jul-18-21, 11:08
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,443
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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I’ve already read the book, Eat Like the Animals, and Marty Kendall's critique of their conclusions about low protein supporting longevity. Marty and Ted together will be interviewing the authors soon and their low protein advice from mouse studies will likely be a focus.

https://optimisingnutrition.com/eat...ist/#more-19959
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  #185   ^
Old Sun, Jul-18-21, 12:33
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,793
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 212/179/160 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Rural Maine
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Should be interesting! More protein is definitely better for me.
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  #186   ^
Old Sun, Jul-18-21, 23:30
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,328
 
Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
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I independently came to the same conclusions that getting enough protein is key for me mentally and physically, but I'm not sure that all animals are as focused on protein levels. If I eat a lot of fat, it is self-limiting and I probably wouldn't get enough protein without tracking it. Likewise eating lots of carbs increases my cravings for more carbs and I don't get enough protein without tracking it. Are animals really driven by the longer term need for muscle development/maintenance that requires protein? Or are they focussed on getting enough energy (from carbs or fat) for a successful hunt and making it though the day?
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  #187   ^
Old Mon, Jul-19-21, 05:24
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,044
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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I prefer to apply Raubenheimer's, Simpson's, and by extent, Naiman's adoption of the protein-leverage hypothesis exclusively to humans, since that's the species I most often resemble. My n=1 experiences indicate the protein-leverage hypothesis has merit. While dietary studies of other species may be of some value, the plot is quickly lost for me due to radically different digestive systems among species suited for consumption of different foods. This represents significantly different optimal nutrition requirements among species.
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  #188   ^
Old Mon, Jul-19-21, 05:40
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25,672
 
Plan: Primal/P:E
Stats: 171/145/145 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Someone on Twitter had put together a Ted Naiman playlist…think was 65 podcasts, sadly cannot find it again! but he has been on a lot of them, including the one with Marty Kendall, now in shorter segments, the full hour + and YouTube to see the charts.

Someone made one on Spotify, for those who prefer audio-only.
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  #189   ^
Old Mon, Jul-19-21, 07:56
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,443
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Thanks Kristine!! That's the one I saw...can't keep all these services straight.
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  #190   ^
Old Wed, Jul-21-21, 04:07
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,443
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Marty posted Bett Lucas's newest video interview with Dr Ted Naiman on the DDF main FB page. Good basic explanation of how the P:E Diet works, by increasing protein PERCENTAGE while adding back more nutritious carbs (low energy density carbs) with vegetables and low fat dairy, fruits, etc.

https://youtu.be/gP2xKjbA4PA
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  #191   ^
Old Fri, Jul-30-21, 10:10
Key Tones's Avatar
Key Tones Key Tones is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 167
 
Plan: Dr Ted Naiman + IF
Stats: 320/158/140 Female 5'10" age 56
BF:
Progress: 90%
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If anyone is interested in making meat chips, Serious Keto posted a video recently on his experiment making his own in a video with his son. Most of them were a bust, he had a couple of successes. I don't have a dehydrator. I do have an airfryer that will go on a low temp, but it seems like it wouldn't be worth it.

I might try the chicken chips sometime (the Carnivore Crisps).

I've been lax on the IF eating windows for a while now. I'm going to go back to it. I'd like to spur more weight loss. I'm going to skip breakfast and lunch and also have these target high fiber/low energy density days.

Dr. Naiman posted a meme recently on energy density. The first two rows with the lowest energy density were - fruit, except for carrots also in there! LOL, I used to avoid some of these like the plague (however, I am sticking to mostly low carb/low sugar fruit). Interesting that a higher protein food, eggs, is also low on the energy density scale, when it is ranked more like a "maintenance" food on his other charts due to its higher fat content. I feel eggs are more filling than expected.
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  #192   ^
Old Sat, Jul-31-21, 03:17
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,443
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Two foods I enjoy having back in my diet are 0% yogurt and low fat cottage cheese, but I have added carrots too! I munch on them with a little Trader Joe's hummus while preparing meals.

Have you looked into adding Marty Kendall's DDF to Dr Naiman's P:E plan? You can get the whole DDF Manual free, and although the program is diet agnostic and helps you find a personalized fasting times, having a protein forward meal early in the day has helped many people restart weight loss. https://www.datadrivenfasting.com/home (And thread here ) If I wait all day to eat, I am more likely to make unwise energy dense choices than a healthy PE meal. Chocolate instead of carrots

Last edited by JEY100 : Sat, Jul-31-21 at 03:23.
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  #193   ^
Old Sat, Jul-31-21, 04:13
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25,672
 
Plan: Primal/P:E
Stats: 171/145/145 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
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I love your new photo, Janet. You look fabulous!

I like carrots, too. I'll buy the little packs of washed/peeled baby carrots, and have one or two at the end of the meal. It's weird, but it's like a 'palate cleanser' for me, especially if I ate something strong-flavoured... something garlicky or hot 🌶. It stops me from wanting to get the taste out of my mouth with cheese or ice cream. I rarely finish the pack of carrots, so I cut them up and freeze them for stir-fries or soup.
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  #194   ^
Old Mon, Aug-09-21, 04:23
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,443
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Thank you..I feel fabulous too. Off to my 7 am power water aerobics class.

Adding my one year update to Dr. Naiman's thread, in addition to the version in Marty Kendall's DDF thread: https://forum.lowcarber.org/showthr...664#post9411664


2020 started off with a dream cruise/vacation, then directly into pandemic restrictions, so by August 5th last year I needed to try something new, my weight was out of control. It was also the 10th anniversary of following a very low carb Atkins style diet, so can't say I didn't give low carb a fair trial. Using Dr. Naiman's P:E weight loss advice and DDF, I have lost 35 pounds and am now a weight not seen since the early 1980s. https://www.lowenergydiet.com

Another new video interview with Ted. https://youtu.be/MYPN9LhOBE0

Last edited by JEY100 : Mon, Aug-09-21 at 11:04.
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  #195   ^
Old Tue, Aug-10-21, 05:07
Benay's Avatar
Benay Benay is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 876
 
Plan: Protein Power/Atkins
Stats: 250/167/175 Female 5 feet 6 inches
BF:
Progress: 111%
Location: Prescott, Arizona, USA
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Great photo Janet!
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