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  #1   ^
Old Sat, Oct-08-22, 15:01
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Calianna Calianna is online now
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Default The Death of the Vegetarian

Quote:
Veggies outnumber vegans by almost two million, but they’re in danger of being cancelled by a plant-based takeover of the nation’s menus

Not long ago, if you wanted a vegetarian meal, most restaurants offered at least one option – as long as you weren’t in a tiny village or France. If that veggie option involved cheese, then all the better. If it involved a bean burger, well at least you knew roughly what you were eating.

Today, vegetarians are starting to get annoyed. The once trusty meat-free option, they say, is being replaced by a vegan one. The Vegetarian Society has been receiving complaints from members who are peeved to find veggie dishes containing dairy and eggs are often absent from menus, jettisoned in favour of plant-based vegan burgers or vegan chilli.

Richard McIlwain, the society’s chief executive, says it’s “interesting to see how the eating out experience has changed”. But “interesting” is not how some of his members would describe what is on offer. “There’s always been a drive to replicate the meat experience, which is good and will encourage more people to give up meat,” he tells the Telegraph. “But it’s been to the detriment of more traditional vegetarian dishes, and we do get fairly regular emails from our members asking if can we raise this. It’s not to say the options are bad, but the vegetarian dishes seem to be either not on the menu or you have the option of cheese pie or a cheese sandwich. And it’s always Cheddar.”

Others scoff that where Cheddar is concerned, the chance would be a fine thing. When vegetarian entrepreneur Vicky Borman was filming last week, the on-set caterer offered either meat or an option that was both vegan and gluten-free. “I said to them, ‘I’m not vegan, I’m vegetarian. Where’s my cheese and cream?’”

The caterer made sure to bring her some cheese the following day. But, says the 43-year-old from Cambridgeshire, owner of CBD Angel, obtaining vegetarian food can be even harder in restaurants.

“There used to be a menu for ‘meat people’ and a menu for vegetarians,” says the mother-of-three. “Then vegan culture took over and it seems easier [for restaurants] to say, ‘if you’re not a meat eater, we’re going to take everything out of it and cover all bases.’ I used to have something like a mac and cheese [when I dined out]... It does seem everything is vegan or fake meat [now].”

The numbers tell a different story: there are 3.3 million vegetarians in the UK today, compared with only 1.6 million vegans. Last year, 130,000 people became vegetarian, compared with 52,000 who went vegan. Yet the word ‘vegan’ has been seized upon by a food industry keen to burnish its ethical credentials and, understandably, cash in on a growing market. Supermarkets now devote whole sections to vegan products. Coffee shop chains have embraced non-dairy milks. In 2012 there were 423 vegetarian restaurants, cafés and foodie pubs around the country, of which about one in eight (54) were vegan. This year, there are 1,600, of which almost half (750) are vegan, according to figures from the Vegetarian Guide. A 2021 report by Bloomberg predicted the global plant-based alternatives market could grow to $162 billion in the next decade, from $29.4 billion in 2020.

While an old-fashioned pub might still present a plate of pasta with tomato sauce – and a slightly bewildered shrug – to any non-meat-eating diner, urban hipster cafés proudly offer such delights as ‘nozzarella’ (a mozzarella substitute with a similar-enough sounding name to deceive those not paying attention) and quarter pounders with cheese, which are just like the real thing, except that the burger is plant-based and the chees is ‘cheeze’ – a vegan substitute.

Mildreds opened its first vegetarian eatery in London’s Soho in 1988, when “vegetarian restaurants were still stuck in a 1960s vibe – doling out ‘worthy’ brown food’”, (or so says its website). It now serves a 100 per cent plant-based menu across the capital.

McIlwain, who went vegetarian in 1987 and switched to a vegan diet more recently, acknowledges that “vegan is trendier at the moment.” But vegetarians have been left longing for more options. “I have to admit to feeling a tiny bit disappointed when I discovered Mildreds are now 100 per cent plant-based,” says Genevieve Fox, a London-based writer. “Ecologically and in terms of the environment, I’m pro-vegan but my heart does sink when I see only plant-based options. I don’t want a souffle made with chickpea flour.”

For Borman and others, it’s the fake meat options that leave a bad taste in the mouth. “I can’t understand that concept of not wanting to consume meat but wanting something that replicates it,” she says. “Being a vegetarian for me was about animal welfare but also about stepping away from processed foods. Some [vegan option] are so processed.”

Indeed, nutritionist Helen Bond warns that those avoiding meat should remain mindful of what alternatives they’re eating. “I have a bugbear of things that are labelled as vegan or plant-based on a menu but which doesn’t automatically mean it’s healthy; they can still be high in salt and saturated fat,” she says. “There are more and more products on the market that are meat-free bacon, plant-based tuna, veggie sausages [and so on], but these are all quite processed foods and sometimes you’re better off having the real thing.”

But perhaps as irritating for old-school vegetarians as the lack of traditional veggie food on menus is the judgement of some vegans.

“I wouldn’t say [vegetarians and vegans] are one big happy family,” says McIlwain. “There are some vegans who will claim a moral high ground, and people who’ve been vegetarian for 60 or 70 years are being told their ethical choice is not the true ethical choice, and that’s quite unfair.”

The Vegetarian Society has members who have been veggie since the 1930s or 1940s, “in a world that didn’t really cater for [them],” he points out. “So there’s a feeling of being a bit bruised by the critique from vegans, and feeling that the vegan food on menus is coming through to the detriment of the great vegetarian options, rather than alongside.”

The Vegan Society, for its part, argues that plant-based products are “not exclusively for vegans and are suitable for most diets and religions, often constituting a safe food option for all.” A spokesman adds that, “unfortunately, continuing to consume dairy and eggs means some farmed animals are still condemned to a life of misery.”

But McIlwain is pragmatic, unwilling to let the perfect vegan be the enemy of the good vegetarian or flexitarian. He would prefer to see more creative vegetarian options available, not only to keep vegetarians happy but to encourage more people to give up meat. With plenty of reasons to do so, from animal welfare and health to the climate emergency and the cost of living crisis. Restaurateurs who offer a catch-all non-meat option to reduce food waste and cut costs are wrong to think good vegetarian cooking involves buying “a whole set of other ingredients that never get used,” he argues. A Greek salad, say, or a Spanish omelette can be made using “staple foodstuffs that can be used across the menu.”

McIlwain adds: “Vegetarian and vegan food is fabulously rich. It’s not one or the other. Let’s increase the variety of vegetarian and vegan options.”


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-drink/features/death-of-vegetarian-vegan-restaurants-menus-options/

I copied this from the "Get Pocket" version that came up ias a recommended article on Firefox. If you click in the link, that will take you to the Telegraph. All but the first few lines will be hidden, but you can get a free trial to read it at the source.
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  #2   ^
Old Sat, Oct-08-22, 15:29
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Calianna Calianna is online now
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I'm not a vegetarian, but I fully understand their problem with how the decidedly minority and very loud vegan voice is being favored over the vegetarian choice.

As has been mentioned before on various articles about vegan vs vegetarian, it is indeed possible to eat a truly LC/healthy diet as a vegetarian, since vegetarian meals include dairy and eggs. You don't need to live on bread and vegetable oils.

Most menus already had a vegan option on the menu: that garden salad is all vegetables. Order that with an oil and vinegar dressing, and you're set.

What this article points out is that the vegan option being offered often includes fake meat, a highly processed food, and the real irony being that they don't want meat, they just want something that looks and tastes like meat.

At least vegetarians are owning their diet choice - no meat.
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  #3   ^
Old Sun, Oct-09-22, 03:57
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plant-based everything is not good for the planet or ourselves. I'm sick of corporate con artists targeting people at a vulnerable age or stage and selling them junk instead of something with value.

I understand the ethical pull of veganism, but it's not real on any point.

I do more for animals by purchasing humane meat than every single vegan on the planet. I buy locally as much as I can, which does cut down on the carbon footprint, while their agriculture machines and petroleum fertilizer does great damage, as well as destroying all the animals that used to/try to live there.

They are pretending. It's a lie. And it's hurting people.

UPDATE: One of the bizarre things in Catland is that it's agreed cats are obligate carnivores and must eat meat. So where does that leave vegans? They open cans for their cats, but I dare not advise them online that vegan is bad for people. I tried it once and got death threats.

Vets have come down hard on the vegan pet foods, and I see them less, thankfully. Maybe we need vets to advocate for people!
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  #4   ^
Old Sun, Oct-09-22, 04:13
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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While the plant-based con artists are abundant, what's more troubling are those same people who feel there's a non-negotiable ethical mission to feed the people, protect the animals, and save the planet. The result of this ill-informed mission is the further spread of metabolic diseases due to poor nutrition and the emergence of a sick planet unable to support the health of all species. Yet, terrible ideas like the ones promoted by the very wealthy arm of plant-based dietary acolytes as described by Eat Lancet continue to be thought of as the solution. There are those who wouldn't hesitate to force this belief system and way of eating on the population for its own good.
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  #5   ^
Old Sun, Oct-09-22, 05:14
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cotonpal cotonpal is online now
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The now knee jerk assumption by most people that a vegan diet is the healthiest way to go was well as the most ethical way to go as well as the most ecologically beneficial way to go is horrifying. It is none of these things and is doing much damage to the health of people and the health of the environment which, in my opinion, is an unethical self-centered way to live.
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  #6   ^
Old Sun, Oct-09-22, 06:40
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Calianna Calianna is online now
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I would not be the least bit surprised if very few vegans have ever set foot on a farm. They probably haven't even raised their own vegetables, not even a windowsill herb garden.

They have no idea of the sheer number of creatures that must be killed in the process of raising crops that still classify as vegan.

If you don't get rid of the insects that eat the crops, you will have no crops to harvest. Most all natural, organic pesticides still need to kill the crop decimating insects, often via a slow, painful death. The products used may be organic, but they're still deadly to the creatures that are eating your food crops.

Larger creatures also can be quite destructive to your crops. Rabbits will nibble away at the best part of your garden delicacies, or bite off the plant stem, thereby killing the plant. It's possible to set up barriers against rabbits, but as digging animals, it's no big deal for them to find a way underground and into your garden. Groundhogs and moles eat from below - if the root is destroyed, the plant dies. Something needs to be done to control the destruction of your garden by those animals, and deterrents such as fences aren't necessarily all that effective.

A few deer can destroy wide swaths of a field by flattening out the crops to make a "nest" for resting, or simply eating their fill of the tasty crops. Or both. The more deer there are, the more crops they destroy. Imagine if deer were allowed to multiply with no more annual culling (hunting season) to keep their numbers even slightly under control. not only would more crop land end up unproductive in any given year (reducing the total amount of crops harvested for the vegan palate), the deer would multiply even more prolifically and destroy more crops the next year, rinse and repeat.

The general population has an unrealistic concept of what it takes to produce food. If vegans look at being vegan as an ethical way to eat, they need to see what it actually takes to produce their food. It would be an eye opener to see how many times the fossil fueled tractor needs to cross the field to spread even the most organic fertilizers and pesticides. I would venture to say that most vegans think of vegan food as magically appearing in the grocery stores. They probably don't have a clue just how unnatural and and highly processed those fake meats are either.
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, Oct-09-23, 08:21
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Calianna Calianna is online now
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This article showed up again on my Firefox "pocket" start page, and as I was reading it (it started to sound familiar - I didn't realize I was the one who posted it here originally - DUH!), I read this part again and had more questions than answers:

Quote:
“There used to be a menu for ‘meat people’ and a menu for vegetarians,” says the mother-of-three. “Then vegan culture took over and it seems easier [for restaurants] to say, ‘if you’re not a meat eater, we’re going to take everything out of it and cover all bases.’ I used to have something like a mac and cheese [when I dined out]... It does seem everything is vegan or fake meat [now].”


If it's a restaurant, surely they have dishes that contain cheese. Surely there are dishes on the menu that contain eggs.

Surely they don't use every single egg and every shred of cheese in the fridge when prepping that day's menu items.

Mac'n'cheese seems like a normal side dish that many meat eaters would order with their meal - at least it is in the states, maybe that's not the case in the UK. How about potatoes au gratin - is that not ever listed as a side dish in the UK? (how difficult would it be to include a line in the list of side dishes that things like mac'n'cheese and au gratin potatoes are also available in a main dish portion)

A pizza restaurant or Italian restaurant will surely have cheese on hand - surely there will be a plain cheese pizza on the menu.

I realize that restaurants do meal prep ahead of time, then portion and reheat for meal service. But not all prepped food is fully assembled - sauces containing meat, cheese, and/or veggies are usually separate from a pasta base. If they have pasta cooked and ready for various dishes, and cheese for dishes that also have meat in them, does a specifically cheese and pasta dish really need to be on the menu? Are they simply unable to combine readily available ingredients to meet the dietary preferences of vegetarians?

Quote:
When vegetarian entrepreneur Vicky Borman was filming last week, the on-set caterer offered either meat or an option that was both vegan and gluten-free. “I said to them, ‘I’m not vegan, I’m vegetarian. Where’s my cheese and cream?’”

The caterer made sure to bring her some cheese the following day.


A catered meal I can understand them not wanting to have half a dozen (or more) different types of food to accommodate every possible different dietary preference because a caterer needs to deliver every bit of food fully prepared and ready to eat.

But a brick and mortar restaurant? Surely they haven't used every shred of cheese and every egg in the restaurant's fridge to prepare that day's menu - surely they can pull out a piece of cheese to shred over a bed of already cooked pasta, or pull out a couple of eggs to whip up an omelet, even if they feel the need to charge a premium for a specially prepared dish.

I also can't imagine a pizza restaurant not having a plain cheese pizza on the menu with a choice of vegetables among the available toppings.

Maybe it's just done differently in the UK with no deviations from specifics on the menu permitted.

Or are vegetarians looking for a section of the menu marked "vegetarian" and since that's not there, just assume that none of the obvious cheese and egg based foods are available meat-free?

But then there's also the thing of the vegans wanting fake-meat choices, because they're not satisfied with a garden salad and some side veggies. It seems absolutely ludicrous that such a small portion of the population can upend the way restaurants set up their menus.
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Oct-09-23, 15:22
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Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Chuckling....cause eating out is far too complicated for me as a customer.

Cause its 100x harder for restaurants to have exactly what I will eat.

Don't know how restaurants deal with all the unique needs.

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Mon, Oct-09-23 at 19:36.
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Old Mon, Oct-09-23, 18:45
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Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
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IMO only vegans are true vegetarians. Just what vegetable did that cheese or egg grow on?

And that egg is a baby chicken in a way.

But if you want vegan plus cheese tell the restaurant, and then vote with your dollars.

I can't eat onions or garlic, as I can't digest them, but I won't get mad at a restaurant that puts onions on everything. I just won't eat there.

I have a friend who is a vegan (she agrees that only vegans are true vegetarians). We manage to find restaurants that have things for her, and the omnivores, my wife and me.

Thankfully, she is not militant, her husband eats eggs and cheese and she cooks them for him at home.

Some vegans and so-called vegetarians treat their diet choice like a cult or religion and want everyone to join the cult.

Forcing people to eat the way you want them to eat is not what freedom and liberty is all about.

And the restaurant business is competitive. If a restaurant thinks it will make money offering a vegan plus eggs/cheese option, it would be foolish not to include it on the menu.
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, Oct-10-23, 03:07
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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What I'm seeing is a whole new form of fast food, such as the vegan form. Bakeries and black bean burgers, as far as the eye can see.

"It's healthy, it's vegan!"
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Old Tue, Oct-10-23, 07:30
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Dodger Dodger is offline
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I seldom eat at restaurants so I'm not aware of menus becoming more vegan. I did a Google search and found that there are 25 vegan/vegetarian-friendly restaurants in my town. All do have meat on the items menu.
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, Oct-10-23, 19:37
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Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
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I think it makes good sense for a restaurant to provide a variety of foods for different picky eater groups.

I wish some had more low-carb meals, and if they don't, they just don't get my dollars.

Seems foolish to me to ban an entire group from your establishments, unless you are doing so much business, that it doesn't matter.

But that's just me. Everyone has the right to do it their way.
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  #13   ^
Old Fri, Oct-13-23, 05:47
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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What I see, in a resort area with few fast food outlets, is a lot of footnoted menu items marking Gluten Free, Vegan/Vegetarian, Nuts, etc.

Which is good. We can't get at the labels, but at least the food is making some important claims.
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  #14   ^
Old Wed, Oct-18-23, 06:13
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Calianna Calianna is online now
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I wouldn't say that restaurants are "banning" entire groups of customers from their businesses by offering foods to appease specific dietary restriction groups.

More likely they're trying to stay ahead of the curve by reading publications geared towards the restaurant business, following grocery trends, and developing menus based on what those publications declare are the most recent dietary food trends. It's part of doing business.

That's one reason they offer such information as potential allergy triggers, and calorie counts - the food trends show that increasing numbers of customers want that information.

Personally, I wish they'd offer more clearly LC/keto menu items - no sweet/starchy sauces, no deep fried breading/batter on everything, meals that are readily available without the pasta/bread/potatoes that cover half the plate. But LC/keto isn't a currently trending way of eating for increasing numbers of customers, so they're not going to devote a lot of menu space or kitchen space to LC/keto foods, even if it might be possible to order something off the main menu and simply have the starchy/sugary components held back.

But until and unless LC/keto becomes a trending dietary habit for a much larger segment of the population, that's not likely to happen any time soon.
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Old Wed, Oct-18-23, 19:02
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Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
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Quote:
But until and unless LC/keto becomes a trending dietary habit for a much larger segment of the population, that's not likely to happen any time soon

But starches are the high profit items.

I've seen a couple of keto entries in a few place.
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