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  #31   ^
Old Wed, Jul-06-16, 16:28
carol2016's Avatar
carol2016 carol2016 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 192
 
Plan: atkins/dietdoctor
Stats: 182/175/159 Female 67
BF:no idea!
Progress: 30%
Location: italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
You just posted you have lost 10 pounds and only have 12 more to lose...How do you call that "painfully slowly" loss? One pound a week is perfectly normal! Read: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...99&page=1&pp=15

Please read this to understand Ketosis:
http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2016/0...-a-ketard1.html



brilliant article. the one i have enjoyed most so far (part from the diet doctor which is the best of all and makes total sense)

thanks janet
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  #32   ^
Old Wed, Jul-06-16, 17:55
carol2016's Avatar
carol2016 carol2016 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 192
 
Plan: atkins/dietdoctor
Stats: 182/175/159 Female 67
BF:no idea!
Progress: 30%
Location: italy
Default numerics for ketosis state

hi my friends

my current quest is to find out what numbers atkins recommended to show 'the state of ketosis' (though i know i am in ketosis and have been since day 2, for a zillion reasons, and also i know how rough a guideline it really is, and in fact not important because its not reliable and can be swayed by so many factors,an d who cares if you look fab and feel great?) but i want the facts. in this case the figures. any ideas?

xx is it 0.5-3.0 ? i read that somewhere.

just looking for numbers.

love xx
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  #33   ^
Old Wed, Jul-06-16, 21:09
Ccat69's Avatar
Ccat69 Ccat69 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 472
 
Plan: LCHF/ketogenic
Stats: 163/132/130 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 94%
Location: Upstate NY
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Carol, the urine strips are not reliable, but you should just have some color change to know you are still burning fat. The number doesn't matter, because it depends on hydration and other things. Once you are adapted, there may be no color change even though you are still in ketosis, because the strips don't measure the chemical you will now produce and the kidneys excrete less. Here is a good explanation. http://ketopia.com/why-you-need-to-...-your-ketostix/

Last edited by Ccat69 : Wed, Jul-06-16 at 21:10. Reason: Misspelling
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  #34   ^
Old Thu, Jul-07-16, 04:44
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,442
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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.5 to 3 is ketosis for the blood ketones BHOB, or beta-hydroxybutyrate. In the TuitNutrition post above, link to learn more how the three types of ketones interact. Urine strips only measure acetoacetate. The link blog author gives validity to the BHOB/AcA ratio, which is still expensive to measure and not all that useful for simple weight loss.

Quote:
YOU CAN BE IN KETOSIS AND NOT LOSE BODY FAT, AND YOU CAN LOSE BODY FAT WITHOUT BEING IN KETOSIS

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Jul-07-16 at 04:53.
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  #35   ^
Old Thu, Jul-07-16, 05:09
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,422
 
Plan: P:E=>1 (Q3-22)
Stats: 168/100/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 79%
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Kind of jumping on this thread late but it looked interesting. I can add that I've been using a device from Ketonix http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=472278

and comparing it to my walmat strips on the daily weight thread going back a month or two too 2 tutu ... oh wait a second

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=474056

my experience on this experiment. hydration or lack of affects strips (diuretic experiments -maybe it's the diuretics too)

the ketonix meter seems to be more sensitive on the lower end. as others have described you can be not showing on strips and you are still making some acetone, weather that's "optimal" is in question



both my strips and meter get HOT when I keep my net carbs below 20 a day.

Am i loosing weight? who knows and who cares. it's all in fun anyway! It would be fun to try out a blood meter too, maybe I'll do that and measure on a weekly basis as those strips are really expensive.

PS, I'm a HUGE Stewie Griffin fan! Him and Brian in the "on the road" episodes are the best and brightest of animated comedy, comedy GOLD Jerry! IMNSHO
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  #36   ^
Old Thu, Jul-07-16, 06:45
carol2016's Avatar
carol2016 carol2016 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 192
 
Plan: atkins/dietdoctor
Stats: 182/175/159 Female 67
BF:no idea!
Progress: 30%
Location: italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
Carol - just a comment that may or may not be relevant to your objective: Many have started a specific way of eating to reduce weight or prevent weight gain as the primary objective. Many transition from the objective of weight loss to vastly improved health, as that is what happens while many of us are attempting to lose weight. It's the most pleasant by product of this eating approach, and I shouldn't describe it as a by product. It's become the paramount objective for me, as I'm no longer on any medications and feeling great physically and mentally with lots of energy. As others have said, weight loss happens during this process at varying levels of degrees and progress. Yes, vent and share the frustration, and be aware that there are many experiencing the exact same thing. If you're one who does better with a low carb approach and elimination of grains, wheat in particular, you're on the right track. Sometimes it's just a slow moving train regarding weight changes while you're making large improvements in health. It's gradual, so many of us at some point have looked back in surprise to notice that minor and major symptoms have completely disappeared over time.


for ME it is a by product. i want to lose eight. it is why i am here. and it isnt happening for the last 4 weeks. at all.
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  #37   ^
Old Thu, Jul-07-16, 06:48
carol2016's Avatar
carol2016 carol2016 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 192
 
Plan: atkins/dietdoctor
Stats: 182/175/159 Female 67
BF:no idea!
Progress: 30%
Location: italy
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thud123
Kind of jumping on this thread late but it looked interesting. I can add that I've been using a device from Ketonix http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=472278

and comparing it to my walmat strips on the daily weight thread going back a month or two too 2 tutu ... oh wait a second

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=474056

my experience on this experiment. hydration or lack of affects strips (diuretic experiments -maybe it's the diuretics too)

the ketonix meter seems to be more sensitive on the lower end. as others have described you can be not showing on strips and you are still making some acetone, weather that's "optimal" is in question



both my strips and meter get HOT when I keep my net carbs below 20 a day.

Am i loosing weight? who knows and who cares. it's all in fun anyway! It would be fun to try out a blood meter too, maybe I'll do that and measure on a weekly basis as those strips are really expensive.

PS, I'm a HUGE Stewie Griffin fan! Him and Brian in the "on the road" episodes are the best and brightest of animated comedy, comedy GOLD Jerry! IMNSHO



i could not agree more on all fronts.
i might change my name to stewie!
you know, the ketone strips mean almost nothing. i have read in depth about them.
they go up and down and you can still not be in ketosis or they go up and down and you can still be IN ketosis. they mean very little compared to how you feel.
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  #38   ^
Old Thu, Jul-07-16, 06:49
carol2016's Avatar
carol2016 carol2016 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 192
 
Plan: atkins/dietdoctor
Stats: 182/175/159 Female 67
BF:no idea!
Progress: 30%
Location: italy
Default

excellent thread. thank you for so many intelligent posters telling me their truths. i appreciate it xx
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  #39   ^
Old Mon, Jul-18-16, 17:02
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,422
 
Plan: P:E=>1 (Q3-22)
Stats: 168/100/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 79%
Default

hey Carol are you back on line?
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  #40   ^
Old Mon, Jul-18-16, 18:04
inflammabl's Avatar
inflammabl inflammabl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,371
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 296/220/205 Male 71 inches
BF:25%?
Progress: 84%
Location: Upstate SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carol2016
i just read all that and honestly? i thought it was amateur. too full of things that dont matter. the fact is, i am losing terribly slowly and i am in ketosis. facts. the person writing says (and they could be anyone at all, not even a doctor, let alone an atkins specialist who is qualified to make such claims) losing even nothing at all is normal (not why i am doing this total change of lifestyle, to lose v slow or nothing for weeks at a time) and ketosis stix are a waste of time and money cos they dont say anything conclusive apart from that you have this substance in your blood beginning with acet****** ! so, not very helpful in the long run BUT i do thank you for trying to inform me and being generous with your time.


Remember: Amy Berger, M.S., NTP, is not a physician and Tuit Nutrition, LLC, is not a medical practice.

I really don't know what she means by burning fat for fuel but not fat adapted. Induction flu is reportedly more often caused by a lack of salt so I don't really know where she gets, "your body has not yet fully ramped up the enzymes and mitochondrial machinery required to properly and effectively utilize those fatty acids and ketones." Maybe she's right but the article strikes me as a narrative in nature rather than sciency.

Back to your issue. A pound a week is not so bad. I am sorry it's so frustrating and I sympathize. You could try eliminating foods to see if they are hurting you. For instance I found that the cafeteria eggs I was eating every morning had citric acid in them, which Lyle MacDonald warns about, and after I eliminated them I went from stalled to losing maybe 15 pounds before I stalled again.

Good luck.
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  #41   ^
Old Mon, Jul-18-16, 18:07
inflammabl's Avatar
inflammabl inflammabl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,371
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 296/220/205 Male 71 inches
BF:25%?
Progress: 84%
Location: Upstate SC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carol2016
hi my friends

my current quest is to find out what numbers atkins recommended to show 'the state of ketosis' (though i know i am in ketosis and have been since day 2, for a zillion reasons, and also i know how rough a guideline it really is, and in fact not important because its not reliable and can be swayed by so many factors,an d who cares if you look fab and feel great?) but i want the facts. in this case the figures. any ideas?

xx is it 0.5-3.0 ? i read that somewhere.

just looking for numbers.

love xx


Here is the paper those numbers are based on,
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ozbkbj6j3...sponse.pdf?dl=0
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  #42   ^
Old Tue, Jul-19-16, 03:15
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,442
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Quote:
I don't really know where she gets, "your body has not yet fully ramped up the enzymes and mitochondrial machinery required to properly and effectively utilize those fatty acids and ketones." Maybe she's right but the article strikes me as a narrative in nature rather than sciency.


Most likely she gets that from many Dr Phinney experiments and talks. He explained adaption in a Capetown lecture recently posted on DietDoctor.

"Here’s a great presentation on this by Professor Stephen Phinney, from last year’s LCHF convention in Cape Town.Table of contents


2:00 Inuits – the experts
6:50 Human keto adaptation takes time
9:10 Statistical risk and health illiteracy
13:50 Keto-adaptation study
25:15 Endurance athletes and …"

Also...

http://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/...cts#performance

And in the Cereal Killers 2 film.
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  #43   ^
Old Tue, Jul-19-16, 19:45
inflammabl's Avatar
inflammabl inflammabl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,371
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 296/220/205 Male 71 inches
BF:25%?
Progress: 84%
Location: Upstate SC
Default

I love listening to Dr. Westman. He exudes the Stanford special sauce. The one time I visited him he and I had a great discussion. Our discussion includes both time constants of the various organs and mechanisms and methods for determining the source of blood ketones, i.e. dietary fat or body fat. I bet if I had the time I could figure out which source was being used. But I don't

Regarding Phinney at "6:50 Human keto adaptation takes time" he does not say anything about "enzymes and mitochondrial machinery" but rather talks about the importance of electrolytes, i.e. sodium and magnesium, during adaptation. "Enzymes and mitochondrial machinery" during adaptation would be very interesting to me. I suspect either there is no information on it or if I once saw it, it was too hard for me to understand.
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