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  #151   ^
Old Fri, Aug-08-14, 11:34
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,121
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Yikes, ladies! You have taken our little experiment for blood sugar control and gone wild. Blue lost in one week what took me month and Leemack fasts for 48 hours! Hope you all meet whatever goal you have in mind Terrific!!
The KetoClarity book has its own chapter on fasting and how much easier it is to do when you are truly in ketosis. Three of Dr Westman's star patients agree that they are less hungry all day if they skip breakfast and sometimes lunch too. Even if have only two eggs and butter, they will be more hungry for lunch than if just had coffee and cream in the morning, so generally now skip breakfast. Debbie, I am noticing the same on an eating day. Ate 2 eggs in butter with spinach early this morning, then had the munchies for a Flaxmeal muffin at 11am..and I could eat something more if I walked to the kitchen now. Yet I know tomorrow I can have coffee, exercise, and be fine all day. All your comments are so interesting...more to consider.
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  #152   ^
Old Fri, Aug-08-14, 12:42
BlueEyes2's Avatar
BlueEyes2 BlueEyes2 is offline
It's Only Food!
Posts: 3,244
 
Plan: Ketogenic / IF
Stats: 279/248/210 Female 5'11"
BF:
Progress: 45%
Location: North Central Virginia
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It's funny you should mention that, JEY. All my life I've found that if I eat breakfast, I am ravenous the rest of the day. I've always been that way and do not eat breakfast for that reason. Bacon and eggs only will give me the munchies in two hours of eating. I don't need that hassle.

Can't wait to get to the part about fasting. I actually had to make myself eat lunch today and only ate part of it. I had left over grilled steak from last night's dinner (2.5 oz.), and fresh red bell pepper strips, and cucumber slices with blue cheese dressing. I ate the steak, one each of the pepper and cucumber and was done. I'll eat them tonight with dinner. I love how this feels.
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  #153   ^
Old Fri, Aug-08-14, 14:59
pivoine's Avatar
pivoine pivoine is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 415
 
Plan: lchf + if
Stats: 230/169/130 Female 5' 5-1/2"
BF:
Progress: 61%
Location: France
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Okay, I managed to "fast" for 24 hours. It didn't feel like it should count as a fast because the coffee with cream, the bouillion with butter felt substantial. But I felt wonderful. I guess the endorphins kick in when you do that ?.

P.S. I bought the iBook of Ketoclarity today and read the whole thing.
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  #154   ^
Old Fri, Aug-08-14, 17:08
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Posts: 6,247
 
Plan: IF/Fung IDM
Stats: 375/259/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: NE Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Three of Dr Westman's star patients agree that they are less hungry all day if they skip breakfast and sometimes lunch too. Even if have only two eggs and butter, they will be more hungry for lunch than if just had coffee and cream in the morning, so generally now skip breakfast. Debbie, I am noticing the same on an eating day. Ate 2 eggs in butter with spinach early this morning, then had the munchies for a Flaxmeal muffin at 11am..and I could eat something more if I walked to the kitchen now.
I am actually pretty much the same about breakfast. Eating breakfast just seems to set me up for wanting to eat all day long. Dr. Fung's blog post at: http://intensivedietarymanagement.c...eak-fast-idm-1/ really resonates with me:
Quote:
You might think you need to eat first thing in the morning so your body has fuel to start the day, but the truth of the matter is you have leftover fuel stored inside of you. Over time it is precisely this excess fuel that becomes hazardous to your health.

So, breakfast is certainly an important meal but it does not need to be consumed as soon as you roll off the bed.
On my eating days I'm also doing much better if I postpone having my meal. I start my day with two cups of coffee with some cream and coconut oil (though now out of coconut oil for a couple weeks until I get home) but don't actually have a meal until about 11:30 AM.

So for my eating days so far it's been two meals a day - meal one about 11:30 AM, and meal two about 5:30 PM - and then my 24-hour fast.

I finished my latest fasting day at 6 PM tonight, and just had a nice dinner - the last of my reheated meat loaf (made with ground beef mixed with some spices, an egg, and some flax and chia meal), some reheated black beans, and stir-fried cabbage and mushroom. Very yummy and fiiling - now to my eating weekend, and then starting my fast again on Monday which should be easy as I'm starting my homeward bound trip on Monday so will be in the car much of the day - easy to avoid eating.

The rest of the week will need some adjusting as my schedule is:
Tuedsay another car day, arriving in NJ that night. Wednesday - normally a fasting day - will be spent visiting family and friends in NJ, so likely an eating day. Then Thursday will be another car day to NC - probably fasting. Friday and maybe Saturday will be spent vistiing family in NC, so probably eating days. Then either Saturday or Sunday I'll be on the road again - so fasting day.

I'll add one other thing - as a retiree on a somewhat limited budget these days the fasting days sure are good for my pocketbook and food budget!
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  #155   ^
Old Sat, Aug-09-14, 04:38
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,121
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Pivione...and all those brain boosting fats! Jimmy has been all around the podcast interview world about the book. He and Dr Westman were emphasizing the "Clarity" part of Keto. Even if there is no weight loss, many experience increased mental focus, emotional evenness, happier moods, etc. Jimmy's interview with Mark Sisson was good, many similar comments from him as in person on Tuesday night. http://youtu.be/YXqApH0PyIk

Debbie, the flexibility of days on and off around your social (or driving) schedule is why Fung thinks his plan is easier. Plus for me a wider selection of vegetables and legumes when I eat is nice for now. This week I had forgotten some chicken in a fridge drawer that had to be thrown out...I need to adjust down the normal amount of grocery purchases, definitely good for the budget.

There is a new Trader Joe's in Portland Me, right off I-295. Coconut oil and yesterday on new product shelf here they had peanut butter with added flaxseed and chia seed. Did not do anything for added fiber count over regular, but supposedly a healthy high omega fat snack? It was all "Fung foods" in one jar, so what the heck, I bought it

Last edited by JEY100 : Sat, Aug-09-14 at 04:43.
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  #156   ^
Old Sat, Aug-09-14, 05:23
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Posts: 6,247
 
Plan: IF/Fung IDM
Stats: 375/259/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: NE Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
There is a new Trader Joe's in Portland Me, right off I-295. Coconut oil and yesterday on new product shelf here they had peanut butter with added flaxseed and chia seed. Did not do anything for added fiber count over regular, but supposedly a healthy high omega fat snack? It was all "Fung foods" in one jar, so what the heck, I bought it
Interesting as I'll be tootling down I-295 through Portland on Tuesday. Not sure I can stop though, with my two dogs in the car. But I guess they might carry it in other Trader Joe's as well. Alas there are no Trader Joe's where I live at present (well the closest is in Gainesville, FL - 63 miles away) but there is one scheduled to be opened in October only 30-some miles away, so that become doable. I love Trader Joe's. Anyway, now to google where the one in Portland is.
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  #157   ^
Old Sat, Aug-09-14, 05:32
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,121
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Our Trader Joe's has a place outside where people leash their well-trained dogs, water bowl provided and treats from cashiers :-) You just never know with TJ's.
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  #158   ^
Old Sun, Aug-10-14, 03:56
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,121
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Finished KetoClarity yesterday, and although the book has a chapter on intermittent fasting, Jimmy said often he ate only one meal his year in ketosis, and I know Lynne eats one meal, it was still a surprise to me that the Three Week Meal Plan had only ONE meal per day on the third week. The meal plan is 3 meals first week, two second and one meal third week and going forward, of course, as that fits your needs and hunger.
So the only difference now is that Dr Westman's Keto is very high fat and very low carb. Dr Fung is still high fat but more fiber and vegetables, so low net carbs.

Hey, fans of Dr Georgia Ede...She's Back!! With a good review of KetoClarity.
She has a series on Ketogenic Diet planned, so sign up for her emails. If you don't know her from before, and her clear writing style, check out her website. http://www.diagnosisdiet.com
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  #159   ^
Old Sun, Aug-10-14, 05:09
BlueEyes2's Avatar
BlueEyes2 BlueEyes2 is offline
It's Only Food!
Posts: 3,244
 
Plan: Ketogenic / IF
Stats: 279/248/210 Female 5'11"
BF:
Progress: 45%
Location: North Central Virginia
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Thanks for the link, JEY!

I find alternate day fasting to work well for me although I found I do have trouble making myself eat on eating days. I thought I'd save one meal daily for when the doldrums hit.

I'll check out Dr. Ede's link. I don't know how you keep up with all this. I really don't. I was thinking just yesterday that you were like Jimmy Moore and needed to have your own blog.
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  #160   ^
Old Sun, Aug-10-14, 06:06
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,121
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Just called an RSS feed, I use the Pulse app on my iPad. I create Low Carb pages of blogs and websites to follow. If they turn out over time to be ones that are particularly useful with frequent interesting blog posts, then I sign up for their newsletters (with yet another fake email address name).
Because I liked Dr. Ede, she went to my newsletter status, but then fell off the face of the earth (really that's just "out there" in Northampton). It was exciting to see this "blast from the past" this morning... and raving about KetoClarity.
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  #161   ^
Old Sun, Aug-10-14, 06:16
inflammabl's Avatar
inflammabl inflammabl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,061
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 296/220/205 Male 71 inches
BF:25%?
Progress: 84%
Location: GSP and FLL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Hey, fans of Dr Georgia Ede...She's Back!! With a good review of KetoClarity.
She has a series on Ketogenic Diet planned, so sign up for her emails. If you don't know her from before, and her clear writing style, check out her website. http://www.diagnosisdiet.com


I was just clicking through her blog and found this: http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/ketosis-month-4/

With this plot of her month 4 data http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/wp-con...ph-768x1024.jpg

Note that her weight loss starts and accelerates when she gets ketones DOWN to 0.2. Calories and fat/protein stay constant.

So much for the magic of ketones? I know it's only a n=1 but that doesn't stop some people.

She has an earlier plot with more data.

http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/wp-con.../06/graph-2.jpg

The results are even more extreme. On or after the days her ketones go above 1.0, she gains weight. Her most consistent loss came from day 32 to day 65. Thereupon her ketones shot way up, her weight went up and only came down on day 76 when her ketones dropped by a factor of ~2.

I suspect that one thing which makes her and JM different is that she is exercising. The in-between nature of ketones as an energy source makes it unclear if ketones should increase or decrease with exercise. Maybe fat metabolism goes up and ketones go up. Maybe ketones are used as an an energy source and go down. Who knows? Not me.

Last edited by inflammabl : Sun, Aug-10-14 at 06:23.
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  #162   ^
Old Sun, Aug-10-14, 06:35
inflammabl's Avatar
inflammabl inflammabl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,061
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 296/220/205 Male 71 inches
BF:25%?
Progress: 84%
Location: GSP and FLL
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One more comment,
Quote:
I have also discovered that urine ketone strips are very unreliable now that I’m in stable, moderate ketosis. Sometimes the ketostix would read “trace” and my blood ketones would be over 1.0, and sometimes a “trace” reading would correlate to a blood ketone level of 0.3. A ketostix reading of “moderate” could mean a blood level of anywhere from 0.5 to 1.9.


I'm not sure why people think the two should be correlated at the same time. I see this assumption over and over. I find that 11am ketosticks correlate well with 7am blood ketones.
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  #163   ^
Old Sun, Aug-10-14, 07:04
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,121
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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As I remember (and not that well now) Dr. Ede did two Ketosis experiments on herself, one before and after, this post about a friend of hers. Ketosis Done Right:
http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/ketosis-done-right/
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  #164   ^
Old Sun, Aug-10-14, 07:47
inflammabl's Avatar
inflammabl inflammabl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,061
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 296/220/205 Male 71 inches
BF:25%?
Progress: 84%
Location: GSP and FLL
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So I start reading that link and I see,

"Anne is the kind of person who embodies clarity and decisiveness. She simply does things or doesn’t do things–if she’s on board with something, she launches into it. If not, she dismisses it and moves on, without any angst or regret. She’s also really good with data and technology, so she’s included some terrific graphics."

And I'm like.... "Good but we'll see how good her graphics are" and I look at the first one and see blue, green and gold colors! She uses colors more easily recognizable by color blind people. That's a subtle thing to know. Nice.
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  #165   ^
Old Sun, Aug-10-14, 08:19
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Finished KetoClarity The meal plan is 3 meals first week, two second and one meal third week and going forward, of course, as that fits your needs and hunger.
So the only difference now is that Dr Westman's Keto is very high fat and very low carb. Dr Fung is still high fat but more fiber and vegetables, so low net carbs.



I'm not that far along in Keto-Clarity yet, but I love that idea. I have experimented with 2 meals per day, and liked the results but 1 meal per day still seems so difficult to me. I ate 3 meals yesterday, following Jimmy's ketogenic principles, ended at 5% carb, 18% protein and 77% fat and felt very good. I plan to do the same today.

Another difference between Westman/Moore and Fung: Fung is advocating every other day fasting - I haven't read it yet, but from what you say above, isn't Westman advocating 1 meal every day in the third week?
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