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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Apr-10-18, 04:34
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,602
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default Statins and ALS

New study, and brilliant analysis of risk by Dr Malcolm Kendrick.

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2018/...eral-sclerosis/

Please read all of the article at link, as it has risk charts and odds ratios by different statins types hard to copy. But here is one excerpt,

Quote:
The two most widely prescribed statins are simvastatin and atorvastatin. Atorvastatin increases risk seventeen fold, and simvastatin twenty three fold.

It is often said that association does not mean causation. However, this is only true up to a point. Most statisticians agree that an odds ratio > 6 represents proof of causation. When you find that people taking atorvastatin have a seventeen-fold increase in risk of ALS, this is proof of causation. The effect is too massive to be due to anything else.

So, what does all this mean in the real world. Well around two to three people per 100,000 develop ALS every year (call this 2.5/100,000). If you increase this seventeen-fold, then around forty more people will develop ALS every year, per 100,000.

Last edited by JEY100 : Tue, Apr-10-18 at 05:35.
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Apr-10-18, 05:56
NoBREAD NoBREAD is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,042
 
Plan: Keto/Low Carb
Stats: 170/120/100 Female 5ft.0in.
BF:
Progress: 71%
Location: WV Mountains
Default

Interesting article.

I read an article similar to this and it's one of the many reasons I do not take the statin that is prescribed to me. About a month before my yearly blood tests I take it just so the numbers keep my doctors mouth shut. My prescription is for simvastatin and even though my ratios and numbers were great the doctor was trying to push lipitor at a higher dose. I refused.
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Apr-10-18, 07:42
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,602
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Wish I could re-name this thread The Feldman Protocol, because that is what it is:
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...59&page=1&pp=15

Dave Feldman's continuing experiments are fascinating. You might consider trying his short-term plan to lower cholesterol numbers by eating More Fat before your blood work... or using the Inverse Pattern rather than a shot of statins. Explained in the Start Here pin on his website: http://cholesterolcode.com

His newest talk about Remnant Cholesterol http://cholesterolcode.com/remnant-...er-should-know/ is also interesting..Dave just keeps finding more ways to blow apart the value of standard lipid panels. Watch his new Breckenridge talk for that. My super low Trigs and high HDL beat down that Remnant formula too [7, same as VLDL-C]

Last edited by JEY100 : Tue, Apr-10-18 at 07:50.
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Apr-10-18, 08:40
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 13,095
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Roy Walford, the biodome fellow who popularized calorie restriction in humans, died from ALS. Not to go too much from individual anecdote--but mouse models of ALS don't do too good with calorie restriction, it makes things worse.

People with ALS and high cholesterol and triglycerides seem to do better.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21128082

Quote:
Patients with elevated triglyceride and cholesterol serum levels have a prolonged survival in amyotrophic lateral sclerosis.
Dorst J1, Kühnlein P, Hendrich C, Kassubek J, Sperfeld AD, Ludolph AC.
Author information
Abstract
Weight loss is a common phenomenon and an independent prognostic factor in amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS). Several potential causal mechanisms, including intrinsic hypermetabolism and deficient food intake, have been discussed. We investigated the influence of fasting serum glucose, cholesterol, and triglyceride levels at time of diagnosis on survival in ALS. Serum cholesterol (LDL, HDL, and LDL/HDL ratio), triglycerides, and glucose were investigated in 488 patients (age of onset = 57.6 ± 12.6 years) in relation to survival and revised Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis Functional Rating Scale (ALS-FRS) data. High serum levels of both fasting cholesterol and triglycerides had a significantly positive effect on survival (p < 0.05). We found a median prolonged life expectancy by 14 months for patients with serum triglyceride levels above the median of 1.47 mmol/l. The results suggest that the lipid metabolism and the nutritional status of ALS patients are important prognostic factors. These parameters should be thoroughly monitored during the clinical management of these patients. In case of progressive loss of body weight, a diet rich in lipids and calories should be considered. However, the final decision whether a lipid-rich diet should be recommended to ALS patients can only be based on a double-blind placebo-controlled interventional trial. Our results further imply that lipid-lowering drugs, e.g., statins, should be applied carefully in ALS patients although individual risk considerations must be made
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Apr-10-18, 13:22
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,602
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Quote:
Our results further imply that lipid-lowering drugs, e.g., statins, should be applied carefully in ALS patients although individual risk considerations must be made


Seems this new study confirms that implication!

The number of cases is so small that it is hard to see trends like an increase since statin therapy and LF diets became common. However the more men (prescribed statins at a higher rate than women), and twice the rate with veterans (who likely available themselves of the standard VA CVD protocols?) get ALS.
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Apr-11-18, 14:49
bevangel's Avatar
bevangel bevangel is offline
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Posts: 1,824
 
Plan: modified adkins (sort of)
Stats: 265/176/167 Female 68.5 inches
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Progress: 91%
Location: Austin, TX
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I find myself more and more thankful that my one "trial" with Vytorin (almost fifteen years ago and only for about 1 month) resulted in such immediate and profound negative effects that I told my doctor that I WOULD NOT take that statin or any other ever again! Period. Not even if he could show me absolutely that if I didn't lower my cholesterol by taking a statin, I was going to die of a heart-attack in less ten years!
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Jul-31-18, 20:32
Zei Zei is offline
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Posts: 1,347
 
Plan: Carb reduction in general
Stats: 230/213/180 Female 5 ft 9 in
BF:
Progress: 34%
Location: Texas
Default

Buried an older relative this year who died from ALS that developed while taking statins. I know it's only an N=1 case, but we all believe the statin caused it. No way will I or hubby let any doctor talk us into taking that stuff no matter how high our cholesterol. And yes, even if a doctor could prove as referenced above about a guarantee of heart attack in ten years and such. Heart attack is a lot nicer way to die than ALS.
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  #8   ^
Old Sun, Aug-19-18, 06:54
soapluvr1 soapluvr1 is offline
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Posts: 73
 
Plan: any and all
Stats: 115/120/115 Female 64inches
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Location: Houston
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zei
Buried an older relative this year who died from ALS that developed while taking statins. I know it's only an N=1 case, but we all believe the statin caused it. No way will I or hubby let any doctor talk us into taking that stuff no matter how high our cholesterol. And yes, even if a doctor could prove as referenced above about a guarantee of heart attack in ten years and such. Heart attack is a lot nicer way to die than ALS.


Husband just got out of the hospital. Mild heart attack and this is his second and his second stent. Last time he was in he took the drugs they prescribed him for three months then took himself off of them. Is it standard procedure to prescribe a statin after a cath? Seems like it is and his cholesterol is not that high imho. Not as high as mine. He said the same thing as you.....rather have another heart attack than die of some neurological disease. Not sure yet what he's going to do. He's been eating healthy lc/hf for the past four years since his last heart attack....another mild one. But he can't seem to avoid the blood clot in his artery.
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  #9   ^
Old Sun, Aug-19-18, 07:18
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 9,238
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soapluvr1
Husband just got out of the hospital. Mild heart attack and this is his second and his second stent. Last time he was in he took the drugs they prescribed him for three months then took himself off of them. Is it standard procedure to prescribe a statin after a cath? Seems like it is and his cholesterol is not that high imho. Not as high as mine. He said the same thing as you.....rather have another heart attack than die of some neurological disease. Not sure yet what he's going to do. He's been eating healthy lc/hf for the past four years since his last heart attack....another mild one. But he can't seem to avoid the blood clot in his artery.


Here is a thought... Im not a doctor but in interest of my own health I have been digging. Most recently looking at K2.

Not accepted by FDA,but is recommended in other countries. Doctors dont know about it. Talked to an orthopedics specialist, an associate professor at UMASS, and when I asked about K2, he only talked about K1. K1 and K2 are NOT the same function.

K1 is clotting.

K2 is calcium deposition. Think depostition of calcium into plaques.

Most of us dont get enough of the basic minerals and vitamins, and certainly not enough K2. Because we have eliinated the foods high in this vitamin. Used to be consumed in higher levels in the past when we ate liver, farm fresh eggs ( really free range as my chickens cover the whole farm in a days travel), natto, etc.

A little research into the K2 might prove helpful.
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, Aug-19-18, 08:25
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
 
Plan: Atkins & IF
Stats: 000/014.5/015 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
Default

Great info - thanks to everyone posting!

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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Aug-19-18, 08:52
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,456
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by soapluvr1
Husband just got out of the hospital. Mild heart attack and this is his second and his second stent. Last time he was in he took the drugs they prescribed him for three months then took himself off of them. Is it standard procedure to prescribe a statin after a cath? Seems like it is and his cholesterol is not that high imho. Not as high as mine. He said the same thing as you.....rather have another heart attack than die of some neurological disease. Not sure yet what he's going to do. He's been eating healthy lc/hf for the past four years since his last heart attack....another mild one. But he can't seem to avoid the blood clot in his artery.

The standard today is that any time someone has a heart issue, a statin is likely prescribed at any age. Statins are prescribed to prevent heart events in all due to age, HBP, and other symptoms. Statins are perceived and routinely prescribed as a method to prevent the initial occurrence or re-occurrence of heart events due to those factors. I stress that I am not a doctor and am just providing my experiences from my own medical care. I have not had a heart event, but I'm in my late 60s, so I've had the statin recommendation due to my age and the incorrect interpretation of my NMR Lipid panel results. So, anyone with what is today considered high cholesterol or high LDL-C coupled with being older will be offered a statin. Pretty routine.
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