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  #1   ^
Old Sun, Sep-11-05, 10:15
Kharma's Avatar
Kharma Kharma is offline
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Plan: Atkins
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Default Armor thyroid, TSH has gone too low, very Anxious today

I'm so frustrated. My thyroid has been whacky ever since I quit smoking almost 2 years ago. I was on synthroid for years, and I did OK on it but I always had brain fog. I figured that was normal.

A couple months after I quit smoking I went to see the Dr. because I didn't feel good. I was extremely tired all the time. He decided to check my thyroid and my TSH was at 29 (I forget what the other #'s were). Normally my TSH was around 4-5. He explained that quitting smoking can affect your thyroid since smoking artificially boosts your metabolism, I was probably undermedicated for a while and we didn't know. He thought it might be a good idea to switch to Armor thyroid. I've been on Armor for about a year and a half now. Overall it's been great, and the brain fog went away! I thought that was something I was stuck with forever.

I started having problems again in December though. I began to get anxiety/panic attacks. I felt very edgy, and zippy. I had symptims of depression even though I didn't feel depressed at all. He knocked my Armor down from 150 to 135 (I was taking a 120 and split a 30). I had my thyroid retested again in May. This time the numbers were:

May 17th 2005
TSH: .272 (range .540-5.700)
Free T4 1.23 (range: .93-1.70)
T3 1.7 (.8-2.0)

He decided to keep me at the 120, because while the TSH was a little low, the other two were in a good range (previously, my T3 or free T4 had been a little low). From May to July my anxiety got worse and I never tied it in to thyroid. The worst was in July when I started getting heart palpitations and they would go on all day long. They had me wear a holter monitor for 24 hours which showed I was throwing PVCs (annoying but harmless palps). The Dr. that had ordered the test (my reg. Dr was on vacation) asked me when my thyroid was last checked. I explained it had only been a couple months ago and I wasn't due to be checked yet. She said let's do it again anyway, and the numbers were:

July 27 2005
TSH: .079 (range .540-5.700)
Free T4 1.1 (range: .93-1.70)
T3 1.2 (.8-2.0)

She said that most likely explained the palpitations (at times they were strong, almost constant and were freaking me out badly). She had me knock my Armor down to 120 and I was doing better, the heart palps lessened a lot within a couple weeks, but this last week they started coming back where they were more continuous again, and they would happen all day. I also started feeling more edgy and anxious again so we retested and my TSH was better, but it was still pretty low at .097 (I forgot to write down the T3 and free T4, I can get that tomorrow again). She has me at 90 Armor now, and we'll retest again in about 6 weeks but here's the deal

I'm miserable, the heart palps are bad today and to top it all off I've been crying almost steadily since I woke up and it's not even close to TOM (the only reason I can think of that would make me blue). I don;t usually cry at all but today I'm crying like a loved one died. I'm afraid, I don;t know what's going to happen and I just want to feel better. I'm worried the harmless PVCs will turn into a heart attack, I'm worried my thyroid will never level out. I hate this hyper feeling.. and I'm sure th ehell going to go bald soon. My hair was falling out at hypo and it's falling out at this too!

I've only been on the 90 two days now and there's a part of me that's worried we went too low too fast (will there be bad side effects for that now?) and I'm worried I'll never get my numbers in a range that feels good again. It's stupid to blame the quitting smoking, but I'm harboring a little resentment that everything was good until I quit LOL.

So please, if you have any thoughts post them. Even if it's just to say "you're not going to drop dead" because today that seems to be a big fear and I'm feeling very alone right now
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  #2   ^
Old Sun, Sep-11-05, 13:45
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Sona Sona is offline
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Kharma, I'm going to link your query to a forum member who's awfully savvy about these kinds of issues, and I suspect she'll want to help. In the meantime, let me reassure you that it's highly unlikely you're headed for a heart attack! You're very anxious right now (understandable), and that isn't helping. If there's any way you can try to ease into meditation, yoga, or relaxation exercises--just to try to regain a semblance of equanimity--that would go a long way to helping your frame of mind.

I don't know why--can't begin to explain--but it sounds as though you have indeed somehow begun to turn a bit hyper from the amount you've been taking. Perhaps it was needed for a long time, but for some reason that amount isn't needed now. Or perhaps something else is going on that is exacerbating the situation. But please try to remain calm--staying tied up in knots and worrying about heart attacks will make everything much worse.

In the meantime, can you do anything to pamper yourself? Get a massage; take a soothing bubble bath. These are superficial, of course, but they can help till the big guns come in.

Off now to carry your link to the expert(s).

Best, Sona
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  #3   ^
Old Sun, Sep-11-05, 16:10
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burchets burchets is offline
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Kharma,
I have had a similar experience as yours. When I first had my thyroid troubles my hair was falling out in droves and I gained a lot of weight. I also think my andrenal system was way out of whack. I was very upset by this, because my hair was always my best feature. So, I got on thyroid and it was the right dose for a while and my hair quit falling out, but then after a year or so, I started becoming hyper. I was talking a mile a minute and couldn't concentrate. I'm now on a low dose of armour thyroid. A very low dose. I've tried to go off of it a few times, but I always start feeling funny and I experience a huge lack of energy, so I know I do need some. I think the best thing to do is pay attention to how your body feels. What is it telling you? I cut down my dose eventually from 90 mg. to 60 mg. to 30mg. (armour thyroid) All doctor supervised, and now I only take a half of the 30 everyday, and I feel the best on this. I have energy and I can work-out. My hair is beautiful now. I have to brag, because it looked so bad for so many years. Things aren't perfect, though. I'm 190 lb's and 5'8". 50 lbs. overweight according to the normal weight charts. I have blood sugar swings still. But.... I can concentrate and I have energy. So, my advice is to not get discouraged, because I think it takes time to figure out what your thyroid needs. I also think that good nutrition is essential and taking vitamins when you are having any sort of health condition. That is what helped me.
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  #4   ^
Old Sun, Sep-11-05, 17:04
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Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Definitely work with your doctor on this. The heart palpitations are harmless if they say so. I had them when I had Graves disease. Its terribly annoying though! The T3 in Armour doesn't last very long so you might ask your doctor if you can cut back yourself until you find a level where you feel good. And you might want to try taking the synthetic T4 with a small dose of armour. You won't collapse or anything if you skip a dose for a day. I've done it once or twice, just felt a little tired, but very relaxed. But that's vastly better than being hyper.

Another thing to realize is your hyperthyroid will also cause anxiety. Maybe just realizing that will help you deal with that a bit.

Its interesting reading what you wrote because I feel a bit like I'm getting more sensitive to mine too.

Kharma, are you taking any sort of supplements and herbs? There are some that can react with thyroid.

I have another friend that quite smoking and she said she felt just horrible afterwards. Her symptoms sounded very much hypothyroid, except her blood tests were fine. I think she's still trying to figure it out with her very good doctor.

And I just learned a while back there's an association between smoking and Grave's Disease. I'd be willing to bet that started me off on my thyroid oddessy.

Hey congrats on quitting the evil ciggies!

Last edited by Nancy LC : Sun, Sep-11-05 at 17:11.
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  #5   ^
Old Sun, Sep-11-05, 17:51
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Kharma Kharma is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 285/185/150 Female 65
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Thank you guys very much. I apologize for being all emotional. I think it just seemed like the last straw this morning, and I'm so very tired of waiting for things to improve. especially when it HAD been improving and all of a sudden the palps and anxiety started last week again. Even as I sit here and type my dumb heart flops around like a fish but it's not freaking me out as much right now. I've usually run more on the hypo end of the spectrum over the years, this hyper stuff is new!

Sona, your advice was appreciated. I have relaxation tapes somewhere, I used to enjoy them a lot. I distracted myself today by watching a couple hour marathon of a show called wife-swappers on ABC family. It was accidental, I was channel flipping and stumbled on it. It was like watching a train wreck.. over and over. It made me feel a LOT better (and thankful!) about things I deal with LOL.

burchets, I'm so glad you posted what you did about your hair. My hair was always my pride and joy too.. very thick, strong, shiny.... that really does give me hope it might bounce back. The concentration thing and talking thing sound familiar too. I make my husband laugh a lot because a conversation can go like "Did you want pork chops for dinner? They're on sale and oh did you see someone ran over a squirrel out front? I hope it wasn't one of the ones from our backyard and I can make rice for you, I'm having spinach and I know that makes you cry"

Nancy LC, I think the anxiety is coming from being a little hyper and now my nerves are on high alert so everything sets them off. The anxiety had been getting a lot better the past few weeks... I suppose just needing to lower the armor does again will fix that again too. I don't take any herbs. I take Atkins Basic 3, Essential Oils, and a calcium/magnesium/D supplement. I find that can help soothe too. I take those at night before bed.

I hope your friend finds her answers. One of the best thing I've ever done was quit smoking, but wow, smoking sure plays a number on your system. I actually saw a Dr TWICE after I quit. The first time he ran the bloodwork, my TSH and everything were still in "normal" ranges even though I was literally sleeping day and night. Less than a month later I was back in there saying "My meds are OFF, I can still feel it. It's getting worse. My hair can prove it." I brought a baggie of hair in to show him. Sure enough when he redid the bloodwork, that's when the TSH showed up so high. So your friend might be feeling it, but it hasn't reached a point in her bloodwork yet maybe?
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  #6   ^
Old Sun, Sep-11-05, 18:22
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burchets burchets is offline
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Plan: CAD
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Glad to hear that you're feeling a bit better. I forgot to say that the last time I adjusted my armour dose, I didn't consult my doctor, I just went ahead and cut the dose I was on in half. I noticed a positive result, and so I went and had my blood work done and everything was in the normal range. I have had a few different doctors, and one doctor I had, encouraged me to "play around" with the dose on the anxiety medication I was taking. I'm a medical assistant, and I think he trusted me to be reasonable with the changes, nothing drastic, plus he knew that decreasing my anxiety meds was not going to kill me. The problem was I was sleeping too much, and we were trying to find a happy medium. I'm no longer on anxiety medication, because I couldn't get over the sleeping too much effect. I think doctors always prescribe way too high of a dose for thyroid medication, because the problem you're having is the same one I was having. I have had my dosage of armour thyroid decreased three times. I am doing fine now on just a small dose. I think my own thyroid works, but not effectively all the time. I hope this info. helps you.

Last edited by burchets : Sun, Sep-11-05 at 18:28. Reason: doesn't make sense
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  #7   ^
Old Sun, Sep-11-05, 20:44
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nawchem nawchem is offline
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Plan: No gluten, CAD
Stats: 196.0/158.5/149.0 Female 62
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kharma when I went on thyroid I had such bad pvc's I couldn't function. One doctor thought my thyroid dose might be too high and the other one thought I should give it more time. The palps were so bad I couldn't sleep more then 3 hours I felt a wreck and I couldn't stand to sit because I could feel them more when my back was against a chair. TSHwas 0.1. When I quit thyroid completely my hair fell out until I had bald spots and the palps got worse. Then I noticed when I stopped lowcarb the palps went away. After a year of misery I finally figured that the pvcs were caused by problems with electrolytes. When I increase my thyroid I lose a lot of water weight and I have to take potassium supplements and I salt my food well. When I lower my carbs I do it slowly to minimize the water loss. I went back on thyroid no problem.

I have mitral valve prolapse (mvp) a really minor heart condition that makes one quite sensitive to electrolyte fluctuations. You might look into that as the condition causes heart palpitations, anxiety, and is a condition that is related to hypothyroidism. 25% of mvpers have autoimmune thyroid.

If you have ever gone to the about.com site Mary Shommon also has mvp, I emailed her when I began having heart symptoms associated with my thyroid medication she is the one that told about the relationship of mvp, hashimotos thyroid, lupus, and fibromyalgia.

I totally relate to the misery those palps can cause. I will increase my thyroid meds very slowly from now to avoid that pain.
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Sep-12-05, 08:44
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Sona Sona is offline
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Plan: low- to medium-carb
Stats: 114/105/105 Female 5 feet 2 inches
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Location: New York City
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Great responses here, Kharma. You might want to consider posting at this site as well:

http://www.healthboards.com/boards/...splay.php?f=122 Some very good posters.

Good luck!

Best, Sona
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Sep-13-05, 07:32
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Kharma Kharma is offline
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Posts: 302
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 285/185/150 Female 65
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nawchem, I considered electrolytes too but I just had my annual bloodwork done (cholesterol, electrolytes, etc) a couple weeks ago and everything was fantastic. The palpitations had already been happening for a few months prior to the bloodwork so if it was that I think it would have been caught at that time. Plus, I didn't have palpitations the first 4-5 months of Atkins, and you'd think they would be more likely to happen during induction (less carbs) then now (I'm on OWL).

Sona, thank you for the link, I'll check it out! Who knows, maybe I just need to really reduce my armor and suppliment with synthroid or something. I'm sure it'll work out, but right now I'd give anything to make these go away LOL
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, Sep-13-05, 09:21
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Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Kharma, not to sound like a broken record, but why not just skip your meds for a day and see if you get some relief?
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Sep-13-05, 09:55
Kharma's Avatar
Kharma Kharma is offline
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Plan: Atkins
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I forgot to try that :X LOL

I'll do that tomorrow and see what happens
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, Sep-13-05, 10:20
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Report back on the palps after you skip the dose. If it is the thyroid you should know pretty quickly, T3 clears fast. Wondering... do you drink coffee or caffinated drinks?
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  #13   ^
Old Tue, Sep-13-05, 11:46
Kharma's Avatar
Kharma Kharma is offline
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No, I gave up caffeine years ago. During the winter I drink a lot of decaf green tea, but this time of year I only drink water. The last time I had a diet rite was probably about 4-5 weeks ago (and that's caffeine free anyway).
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  #14   ^
Old Tue, Sep-13-05, 12:00
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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I have a friend who had to give up caffeine because of palps, although he had been a java junkie all his life. Anyway, just another thought!
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Sep-13-05, 12:05
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Kharma Kharma is offline
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It was a good thought!

You said the T3 clears off quickly.. do you mean like within hours, or a day? Right now palps start right away in the AM and go until I go to bed. I assume they happen while I'm sleeping but I'm not waking up because of them!

I'm wondering if I skip it does that mean the palps might stop right away in the morning (if it's the armor) or will it take longer, like in to the evening?
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