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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Oct-03-19, 02:35
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
Posts: 22,487
 
Plan: LCHF/IF
Stats: 217/182/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 61%
Location: UK
Default Low-carb 'keto' diets have some health benefits and some risks

Low-carb 'keto' diets have some health benefits and some risks

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-idUSKBN1WH2H4

Quote:
While extremely low-carbohydrate diets may aid short term weight loss, they have mixed effects on health markers that can contribute to heart disease risk, according to new recommendations from the National Lipid Association.

Based on a review of existing research, the scientific statement emphasizes some advantages of a ketogenic, or very low-carb, diet including appetite suppression, lower lipid levels and lower blood sugar in people with diabetes.

But a keto diet is also associated with spikes in the “bad” cholesterol that can build up in blood vessels and lead to clots, known as low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C).
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Oct-03-19, 05:50
DaisyDawn's Avatar
DaisyDawn DaisyDawn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 284
 
Plan: relaxed carnivore
Stats: 140/123.2/130 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 168%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi
Low-carb 'keto' diets have some health benefits and some risks

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-idUSKBN1WH2H4


I want to get some blood work done next month, since it will be around 8 months since transitioning to lower carb, (and some time doing the carnivore woe mixed in there).

I had the normal panel done at my annual check-up a couple weeks after I had started transitioning to lower carb and everything was normal, (total cholesterol 170, trigs in the 60s etc), but I want to get a Lipoprotein Analysis done, which will show the size of my LDL particles.
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  #3   ^
Old Thu, Oct-03-19, 07:48
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,119
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

DD, you may already know this, if you specify an NMR Lipid Panel, that will give you everything you're seeking including LDL particle size with measurements for large and small particles. It often costs more with health insurance, but in my opinion, it's the only lipid analysis that has any real meaning for low carb, keto, carnivore people. Good luck.
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Oct-03-19, 07:54
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,119
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi
Low-carb 'keto' diets have some health benefits and some risks

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-idUSKBN1WH2H4

And this summary quote in the Reuters article says it all (bold is mine):
Quote:
Ideally, adopt a diet full of plants and whole foods that provides overall cardio-protective qualities: rich in whole grains, vegetables, fruits, nuts, and legumes; eliminate processed foods and trans fats; limit refined grains, saturated fats, red meat and added sugars,” Seidelmann, who wasn’t involved in the study, said by email. “Adults that are interested in pursuing a very low or low carbohydrate diet for weight loss should consult with their clinician in order to weigh the risks and benefits of various diets and to share in the decision making process.”

Easy to determine where this is heading and which nutrition camp supplied the information. Fact is we don't know the risks and benefits with lipid changes being interpreted as a corresponding health marker. We're getting there, but outside of epidemiological studies which are useless and to which this article likely refers, we have lots of N=1 and clinical experiences that point us in a different direction than what we've been brainwashed with over the past 50 years.
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Oct-03-19, 08:57
DaisyDawn's Avatar
DaisyDawn DaisyDawn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 284
 
Plan: relaxed carnivore
Stats: 140/123.2/130 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 168%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
DD, you may already know this, if you specify an NMR Lipid Panel, that will give you everything you're seeking including LDL particle size with measurements for large and small particles. It often costs more with health insurance, but in my opinion, it's the only lipid analysis that has any real meaning for low carb, keto, carnivore people. Good luck.


I'll be paying for the test out of pocket and doing it independently from my doctor, (since I already had my annual/regular blood work done earlier this year), so insurance/doctor won't play a part in what I chose. I'm looking at this one, thoughts? I can get the test drawn at a Quest lab that's just a few minutes from my house.
https://www.walkinlab.com/labcorp-n...blood-test.html
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Oct-03-19, 08:59
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,119
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

That's the one. It provides direct measurements, not estimates, along with particle size.
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  #7   ^
Old Thu, Oct-03-19, 09:06
DaisyDawn's Avatar
DaisyDawn DaisyDawn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 284
 
Plan: relaxed carnivore
Stats: 140/123.2/130 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 168%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
That's the one. It provides direct measurements, not estimates, along with particle size.


Good to know, thanks! I'm thinking this test and then this one as well, which would give me a lot of data to look at. Tentatively planning on November, and then I'll get my regular doctor blood work done again next April. Like the idea of having bloodwork done twice a year, to keep tabs on things.

https://www.walkinlab.com/labcorp-w...globin-a1c.html
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  #8   ^
Old Thu, Oct-03-19, 10:01
LC FP LC FP is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,153
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 228/195/188 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 83%
Location: Erie PA
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DaisyDawn

The Wellness 2 Blood Test Panel is composed of the regular blood tests your family doc would most likely order if (s)he was ordering a "complete" blood workup. The lipid panel part is the regular panel docs usually order. There's no direct measurement of LDL size or particle number.

If your HDL is good and triglycerides are low then the LDL size and particle number are probably good too, but you don't really know if you don't measure them directly.
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, Oct-03-19, 10:03
LC FP LC FP is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,153
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 228/195/188 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 83%
Location: Erie PA
Default

Oops, yeah, the NMR panel is the right one
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Oct-03-19, 20:05
Zei Zei is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 1,463
 
Plan: Carb reduction in general
Stats: 230/213/180 Female 5 ft 9 in
BF:
Progress: 34%
Location: Texas
Default

DD, just FYI, some of us are what Dave Feldman terms "lean mass hyper-responders." Our LDL cholesterol can rise very high on a very low carb diet to shuttle sufficient fat to the body's muscles etc. in people who are thin and/or exercise significantly, since these particles transport fat-burning energy to the body and a thin person or someone burning through a lot of fat for fuel won't have enough fat stores in each working muscle to supply itself and depends on these lipoprotein "boats" to shuttle this energy to them. I'm not super lean but tend to be fairly active and was perplexed and concerned for quite some time when my LDL rose dramatically changing to low carb (and losing a bunch of weight) until I realized I did fit within this category as the explanation, so I now don't worry when I see my LDL look high by conventional standards so long as my triglycerides are low and my HDL cholesterol high. Anyone who's interested in a better explanation of all this, check out the numerous different videos and articles by Dave Feldman on cholesterol, which I've found very enlightening.
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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Oct-04-19, 03:25
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 11,959
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
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I figure if my A1C, CRP, body fat level, sleep, appetite, blood pressure, eye exam, and autoimmune symptoms are all doing well, I don't care about cholesterol. Let it handle itself
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, Oct-04-19, 04:35
DaisyDawn's Avatar
DaisyDawn DaisyDawn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 284
 
Plan: relaxed carnivore
Stats: 140/123.2/130 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 168%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zei
DD, just FYI, some of us are what Dave Feldman terms "lean mass hyper-responders." Our LDL cholesterol can rise very high on a very low carb diet to shuttle sufficient fat to the body's muscles etc. in people who are thin and/or exercise significantly, since these particles transport fat-burning energy to the body and a thin person or someone burning through a lot of fat for fuel won't have enough fat stores in each working muscle to supply itself and depends on these lipoprotein "boats" to shuttle this energy to them. I'm not super lean but tend to be fairly active and was perplexed and concerned for quite some time when my LDL rose dramatically changing to low carb (and losing a bunch of weight) until I realized I did fit within this category as the explanation, so I now don't worry when I see my LDL look high by conventional standards so long as my triglycerides are low and my HDL cholesterol high. Anyone who's interested in a better explanation of all this, check out the numerous different videos and articles by Dave Feldman on cholesterol, which I've found very enlightening.


Good to know, thanks! I'm not very active (just do some walking for exercise), but I am very lean at this point-BMI is under 20 right now. I'm very curious to know what my numbers are now, after going low carb-my HDL was low last time and that was the only thing my doctor brought up as a concern, she wanted that number to move up quite a bit. Hopefully I'll see improvement in that area on the next test
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  #13   ^
Old Fri, Oct-04-19, 04:37
DaisyDawn's Avatar
DaisyDawn DaisyDawn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 284
 
Plan: relaxed carnivore
Stats: 140/123.2/130 Female 66
BF:
Progress: 168%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
I figure if my A1C, CRP, body fat level, sleep, appetite, blood pressure, eye exam, and autoimmune symptoms are all doing well, I don't care about cholesterol. Let it handle itself


I have horrible eyes, so I definitely don't want to go by that I actually have early onset cataracts so in the next few years I'll get that taken care of and my vision should improve quite a bit-so tire of spending over $500 on one pair of glasses!
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