This is a common story, unfortunately, which I hear all the time... with variations of course. But the main theme is the same... "I used to be vegetarian, I became unwell, I started eating meat again (frequently as a result of a doctor's advice), and now I feel great."

The implication is that the vegetarian diet per se was the problem, when in fact it was the incorrect implementation of the vegetarian diet that was the culprit.

It is a myth that the vegetarian diet weakens the body, or reduces athletic fitness, or reduces energy, and it certainly does not upset the endocrine system. If anything, the opposite is true. But unless some care is taken to insure proper intake of macro and micronutrients, pathology can result. For myself, having adhered to a complete vegetarian diet for 25 years and having had success as a competitive bodybuilder, I have experienced the long term impact of the diet: When coupled with a proper exercise plan, the impact is is increased muscle mass, reduction in body fat, increased strength and energy, and improvements in overall health, especially with regards to blood cholesterol, blood pressure and cardiovascular health, and an improved immune system.

I would suggest that when you revisit the vegetarian diet, you take the time to discover what was missing in your implementation of the diet and make the appropriate corrections.

PS – Doctors tend to treat symptoms rather than causes. Did you ever find out WHY your T3/T4 levels were low? The thyroid is part of a complex feedback loop of glands and hormones. Synthroid fixes the symptom, but perhaps the source of the problem remains.

That all too often a vegetarian diet is blamed for things that aren't necessarily its fault...

I have suffered from polycystic ovarian disorder for years and it was suggested to me that my vegetarian diet and high soya intake might be a problem. I did not stop being a vegetarian, but I did cut my soya intake to nil for several years, with absolutely no benefits, and considerable weight gain.

Conversely, What no-one suggested to me was excluding dairy products. About eight months ago I gave up dairy products because of a variety of reasons (mainly ethical). Quite surprisingly, within three months all symptoms of my Polycystic Ovarian Disorder (painful, uncomfortable, demoralising and inconvenient) were gone without a trace and I lost a lot of weight, very quickly. It was not an expected result of quitting dairy, so don't think that it could be in some way psychosomatic. I don't know if the cysts are still there; they possibly are; but I would still recommend a dairy free diet to anyone with gynaecological problems, in particular PCOD, because of the enormous improvement doing so has made to my condition and my life.

That aside, I maintain that the south asian diet is high in both soya and fermented soya (my chinese and japanese ex-boyfriends would bear witness to this) and that the incidence of gynaecological cancers there is lower than in the west. People do indeed seem very willing to blame ill health on vegetarian diets, but very unwilling to consider that it might be hormones and chemicals in animal products, or just its indigestibility, that might be causing a problem.

I think as a rule, moderation and variety is important in your diet, and I can't help but think it's better to get your protein from a variety of sources. I eat soya products every day in one way or another, and I don't worry about it. I think if people do suffer from ill-health whilst following a veggie diet it's more likely to be because they are not implementing it properly - not that it's hard. Many vegetarians find themselves overdosing on refined carbohydrates, though, (ie, eating a LOT of pasta and the like) and I think that is more likely to cause trouble.

Hi Steve and Chanamo!

I agree with both of you, in that your plans have worked out well for you. I am never saying that what happened to me will happen to anyone else, and I also said that too much estrogen might be one of the causes of the polyps. (They were uterine polyps, btw, not ovarian, if that makes any difference, I don't know)

Body fat also produces estrogen (or causes higher estrogen, something like that), and being so overweight, I also considered that that was one of the causes. I don't know and probably never will.

I still eat tofu once in a while (I never really loved it anyway), and I know another fellow (back in NJ, where I used to live) who was a body builder, and he showed me what he ate every day - all it was was white rice and vegetables! And he was built like a brick house!

Also, at the time when all this happened, I had just turned 50 years old. A lot of my friends are on synthetic thyroid, and I wonder if it just doesn't get like 'burned out' with age.

I am never implying that a vegetarian diet was the cause of my health problems, I just thought it might be, because that was the only thing I did differently, and I had been healthy up till then. It could have been just age creeping up on me, and it was just cooincidental. Also, I had been working very hard that previous year, and maybe that just overtaxed my thyroid.

As far as implementing the vegetarian diet, I tried to get adequate protein, and I found a chart that listed various foods and their amino acid components and suggested what to eat with what to make a complete protein. The diet itself was probably relatively low carb (or at least low GI/GL), with lots of veggies, beans, nuts, and brown rice, barley, oats, etc., not too much pasta, and my weight was a lot lower then. I thought I would be the healthiest 50 year old on the block! (My cholesterol had dropped from 220 to 164! It was great in that respect!)

I will probably never know the exact causes of the polyps or the thyroid, but I just wanted to share my experience, in case it might help someone else.

The bottom line is that everyone has to follow a plan that works best for them, and keep trying different things until they find what makes them be and feel the healthiest.

I feel, live and let live, and I never want to impose my plan on anyone. I just share my story here, as does everyone else. Take what you like and leave the rest.

Also, if you look back to the original post on this thread, I was responding to that question.

Another thing I thought of was, does taking contraceptive pills have any bearing on this issue ? They all have estrogen in them to some degree don't they ? I don't take them, so maybe my eating soy just brings me to par with a person not eating soy, but who is taking the pill ? I have no idea if this reasoning is accurate ? If someone knows for sure, do let me know

Also, regarding vegetarian diets in general, having grown up in a nation where it is pretty much a way of life, I have no reason to believe that there is something wrong with being so. Whenever I hear anyone here in the US, blame a veg diet for their health issues, I assume they are not eating enough beans/legumes/vegetables and therefore not getting the proper nutrients. Maybe ancestry has something to do with it too ? I mean if you are descended from people who lived in cold climates then your body is "evolved" to do better with meat, rather than tropical fruits & vegetables. I say that because I have read enough posts about lc'ers who say they ate off plan & they got sick, shaky, headachy etc etc & that even a drop of sugar gives them HUGE cravings. Whereas I ate all kind of fruit this past summer & felt perfectly fine and even if I eat something sugary, I never go on a binge. Just go right back to my regular lc woe.
Or maybe there is no right or wrong answer & everyone is just different !

Hi tuscany!

You know, after reading about a gazillion posts on this forum, I think everyone is just different! I can see for myself that what works for one or another person would not work for me. (and believe me, I've tried everything, so I'm not making a decision based on conjecture).

Even though we are all human beings, apparently our metabolisms react differently to different substances, and I'm sure genetics (and life experience) plays some part in all this, too.

After all, why are some people carb-sensitive and others not?

So, what ever works, do it!

As far as the soy estrogen vs. the pill estrogen - that's a very interesting hypothesis! I never thought of it, since I'm not on the pill, either. You might want to do a little research on it, if it would give you any more insight.

By the way, how are you doing?

Hi Barb ! hanging in there; trying out SB or trying to try slowly switching my foods to low fat or fat free. Adding in some beans. Have ordered a tape of something called callanetics that is supposed to be great for toning up. Let's see if any of this works !!
How about you ?

Hi tuscany!

I'm hanging in there, too. I have found (yet again) that going very low carb results in a total lack of energy, so I've added my steel cut oats back to my breakfast (I was having just whey protein drink and coffee for a week to jump start the weight loss).

I made a nice soup the other day - split-pea and barley with lots of veggies (I did add beef this time, as I wanted to serve it as a complete meal for my family - and we all wanted the beef. I have made this completely veggie, though, and to me it is just as good).

Still trying to keep up with the exercise (I go on the elliptical trainer at least 3x a week, and I try to walk my dog every day for about 35 min.)

So, still plugging along. I can imagine how busy you are with a 2 year old and working full time. When do you find the time to even write on this forum?!

My DH and DS are so useless around the house, when I worked full time, I think it was worse than having a 2 year old It was like having 2 of them (plus a dog!)

I think you are doing great, and if you can fit an exercise routine in there, too, you should get a medal (in addition to your increased health!)

gosh thanks for the kind words ! I've more often got the jibes (on this forum) about how "everyone can fit exercise into their life", regardless of working ft & having a baby ! My DH is actually very helpful around the house, but for the last few months he has been working on a project in the evenings & weekends, so I've had to handle home & baby on my own. also our families all live abroad, so I have no break whatsoever.

Still having said that, I have planned on getting up 1/2 hour earlier in the am & getting in some exercise.

I eat lunch at my desk, thats when I cruise thru the boards. Or for a few minutes here & there if I need a break.

So, are you losing weight on your plan ? I have been swinging between 133-135 for months, regardless of what I eat. Though I don't eat off-plan too much for the most part. If I'm out of options, I eat the lc bars. I figure its better than getting pretzels(or worse) from the break room.

Hi tuscany!

I applaud your plan on getting up earlier. Even though I am at home now, I get up at 5 am to work out on the elliptical (most days!). I have to get my son up at 5:50 am (he's 17, you'd think he could just use an alarm clock! [Well, he does, but then he goes back to sleep!] ). If I don't do it then, I never do it (that day). I like the feeling of:
1. getting it out of the way, early
2. exercising before I eat breakfast

I know how it is to not have help. I had no help, either. People don't realize what a drain it is to take care of a child 24/7. It's not like it stops at some point in the day. You even have to think of them when they're sleeping.

I tell you, I used to be such a deep sleeper. Ever since I had my son, though, you could drop a pin next to my bed and I would hear it!

When my son was 5, 6, 7, every night I'd hear him call me, because his blanket would fall on the floor (or just get pushed aside and he couldn't fix it). I wanted to glue that thing to the bed, after a while! (yes, I tucked it under the mattress, but he'd pull it out!)

If you want to go to a movie, (well, who goes out anymore, anyway?) but even if you did, you'd have to pay a stranger to stay with your child. It's very stressful. The stress alone will tire you out!

Don't worry about what others say about exercise. No one is in your shoes, but you. You will make time for whatever you feel is most important. Sometimes an extra half hour of sleep is more valuable than the exercise. See how you feel. Of course, it doesn't hurt to give the exercise a try.

Regarding my plan, yes, I am losing weight. Of course, I'd like it all to be gone by tomorrow, so it's never fast enough for me.
I think most any plan that reduces the calorie consumption will help someone lose weight. The real key is consistency. I have a feeling that if you do manage to increase your exercise, then you will notice the pounds coming off. You know the old adage: To lose weight, eat less and exercise more. In all the years of dieting, and all the hundreds of plans, that is the basic equation. Everything else is window dressing!

If you'd like, please visit me in my journal. You might like to start one of your own, too. That is a great place to 'converse' with others, and also jot down whatever you'd like to write about your own plan, too. Just click on the Journals/Bootcamp link and they have the instructions there.

At the risk of taking this thread a bit off-topic...you'd be surprised what people 'realize,' whether they're parents or not. Sometimes other people's kids are 24/7 for their 'bonus parents,' too.

My sister, a single (divorced) parent of two boys (now 20 and soon-to-be 23) felt that she 'didn't have help,' although she always had lots. The boys' dad was an unreliable parent on his best days, and left home when they were 3 and 6 y.o. My brother not only didn't have official 'help,' but has a very combative ex-spouse...and when they separated, his boys were 5 and 9 y.o.

My sister worked full-time, sometimes two jobs, and my brother also worked full time and had two jobs until last year. Both of them had supportive family and friends only 15-40 minutes away, and we all stepped in and stepped up regularly. In the 17 years of both divorces, I only said 'no' one time when either of them asked me for a hand. I took the kids on weekends when needed, weeknights when needed, drove them to practices and attended games their actual parents couldn't make (I have a flexible work schedule) and took them to doctors' appts. and went to school conferences and performances. Their friends stepped in for community breakfasts and Halloweens and Christmas celebrations and gifts. And somebody had to be the extra resouces when the older ones went off to college...guess who?

The thing is, even completely single parents without nearby family can and do build support networks when raising their kids--but they do have to build them. If you're a two-parent home and you feel you're not getting any/enough support, then you need to insist on some, or build up that friends network. I know that's a 70's liberal kind of approach, but I've seen it in action for dozens of women, and bottom line, you get the support network you're willing to build/insist on. That's said from *being* the 'bonus parent' aka Aunt to not only my own nephews, but to dozens of dog-show friends' kids over the last two and half decades. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't interact with some of those kids, or their parents, or both. I've just gotten off a supportive phone call to oldest nephew, who was just drafted by the Chicago pro lacrosse team and wanted to brag a bit to the aunt to whom he can always tell everything...including that he'd just put his name into his company pool to go to New Orleans and helped staff/rebuild franchises there for a 3-4 week period, and what did I think of that? I thought it was incredibly cool that he would be so mature and so willing to both experiment in his life and step up where others needs him. The 24/7 part doesn't stop when they're old enough to leave home, and the rewards for that investment just keep on coming.



It's true, no one is in anyone else's shoes. That said...one of the things I like the most about PP is that the equations for computing an ideal weight are a LOT more realistic than most other 'charts.' For one thing, they take increasing age and lean body mass into consideration; most others don't. It is entirely possible that 115lbs. is no longer an 'ideal' weight for a 30-y.o. woman; goddess knows it's not for me (and I'm only 5 feet tall.) You may need to retake your measurements and rethink your ideal body weight as you get older, because...well...that weight from high school is as long-gone as the person who posed for your senior picture. And as pointed out before...exercise CAN be all the difference between being a size 6 at 130 lbs and a size 12. YMMV.



Barb, actually there's a lot of science that debunks that 'old adage.' One really great website for actual scientific studies that demonstrate that eating low carb successfully really ISN'T all about eating less and exercising more, or that 'a caloris is NOT just a calorie' is http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com which is the online journal of -- you guessed it, nutrition and metabolism. There's really some great stuff there, and I completely recommend it. Check it out.

Gaelen

Hi All, I am happy to report that I got my callanetics tape yesterday & did wake up a 1/2 hour early this am and worked out with the tape...yay !!! The baby cooperated by going to sleep at 8.30 last night rather than his usual 9.30, so I was able to pack up & get to bed earlier too. Hope I can keep this up - I'm just going to take this in baby steps...

I will start a journal too...these last few messages have been more journal-like anyway

Gaelen - I hear what you say about getting help from a group other than your family. Here is my situation - my husband & I have been in in great country for a few years only and don't have a large network of buddies. Friends from when DH was at school, have all moved away from our city & we haven't formed very close realtionships with others, enough to leave our kid with them all the time. We are both very shy We have gone out a couple of times, leaving DS in care of a sitter - we didn't know her personally, but she is my boss's SIL, so reliable. But DH, even more than me, feels uncomfortable with the idea of leaving baby with a "stranger" In any case, I have no problem with not being able to get away from home & baby for recreation. Its the day-to-day & fitting in exercise in my day that is the problem. & no sitter is going to solve that one. I just need more hours in the day...