Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low Carb Health & Technical Forums > Cholesterol, Heart Disease
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16   ^
Old Thu, Jan-25-18, 08:00
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,414
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Feldman's video is very informative, thanks for the link, teaser. It makes sense that for a period of time, moving the energy balance to something other than endogenous fat (even carbs/glucose) would result in a better lipid result by doing this just before a blood draw. Long term carbs? Well, I know personally how that turns out.

Edited for clarity.

Last edited by GRB5111 : Thu, Jan-25-18 at 08:54.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #17   ^
Old Thu, Jan-25-18, 09:50
khrussva's Avatar
khrussva khrussva is offline
Posts: 6,888
 
Plan: My own - < 30 net carbs
Stats: 440/205/210 Male 5' 11"
BF:Energy Unleashed
Progress: 102%
Location: Central Virginia - USA
Default

Thanks for the tip on the new Feldman video. I'll watch it tonight. I'll be having my annual checkup in 2 months. Like last year I plan on eating to energy balance in the week prior to the lab draw. Last year I did that and had cholesterol numbers that made my doctor's head glow with delight. 6 months later I had a cholesterol test done on my own when I was in weight loss mode in the week before the test. My LDL was double what it was 6 months before. I'm debating as to whether should show my doctor those results after I get my expected stellar results back in March. Should I just let her smile and be happy? Or should I try to educate her about he meaninglessness of LDL as a stand alone marker. We'll see what I get in March, but I'm pretty sure that I could make my LDL be as "Good" or as "Bad" as I want it to be.
Reply With Quote
  #18   ^
Old Wed, May-02-18, 04:39
s93uv3h's Avatar
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
 
Plan: Atkins & IF
Stats: 000/014.5/015 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Today received new blog post by Dr Michael Eades, that basically explains how to use the strategy from Dave Feldman's work on making short term diet changes (increasing fats) to lower your cholesterol numbers. Sounds crazy...but check this out.

Great read! Thanks.

Has Dave Feldman posted his menu with the 461g of fat? I'd like some ideas for the three days leading up to my annual exam coming up in October.

Reply With Quote
  #19   ^
Old Sat, May-19-18, 06:55
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 13,006
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

http://itsthewooo.blogspot.ca/2018/...econd.html#more

Woo gets in a friendly back and forth with Dave here. Some of Woo's position reminds me of the approach Ken is taking. I think diabetes/insulin resistance is the more important target, it's more obvious what to do about that. Fine-tuning cholesterol is a different thing--Dave shows you can manipulate it short-term. But if you were to try manipulating cholesterol long term by overeating fat--probably both your lipids and your insulin and glucose levels would be disappointing. I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice much of anything in the way of avoiding pathological insulin resistance and diabetes for the sake of a better lipid profile, but like Woo says, it's not like it has to be one or the other. Even in the Quebec study, having low insulin very greatly reduced the risk of a high ldl particle count, but it didn't wipe it out.
Reply With Quote
  #20   ^
Old Sat, May-19-18, 06:57
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 13,006
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Although you do have to understand I guess, when a lipid profile gives 1.5 the risk in a very low risk segment of the population, that's 1.5 times not very much.
Reply With Quote
  #21   ^
Old Sun, May-27-18, 05:50
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 13,006
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/91/3/578/4597130

Not a new study, looking at the wickedness of low carb for not suppressing free fatty acids.


https://oup.silverchair-cdn.com/oup...E5G5CRDK6RD3PGA

Tried to post as an image... anyways, graph of free fatty acids vs. ldl cholesterol, decent correlation.
Reply With Quote
  #22   ^
Old Sun, May-27-18, 08:46
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,414
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Studies like these convince me that the lipid profile of those following a LCHF becomes different than those following other eating approaches. The question is whether the increase in FFAs is actually unhealthy or simply an indication of the dynamics found in those when fat becomes the primary fuel. Certainly lots more to understand about this, but the knee-jerk reaction to a higher lipid profile is not necessarily an indictment for heart or health risk due to diet. Once again, it's the situation where the increased presence of fat doesn't mean that fat is the root cause of any disease, similar to the presence of firefighters at a fire.
Reply With Quote
  #23   ^
Old Fri, Oct-05-18, 11:53
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 13,006
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

http://www.jlr.org/content/31/3/407.full.pdf

Stumbled across this today...

Quote:
Diets differed only in
the composition of the fat and contained either 40% of energy
as MCT or LCT (soybean oil). The major differences between
diets in the resulting pattern of blood lipids were: 1) a reduction
in fasting serum total cholesterol concentrations with the
LCT, but not the MCT diet; and 2) a threefold increase in fasting
serum triglyceride concentrations with MCT, but not LCT,
diet. Moreover, 10% of the fasting triglyceride fatty acids were
medium chain and 40% were 16:O with the MCT diet. This
compared to 1 % and 20% for medium chain and 16:0, respectively,
with the LCT diet. In addition, there were increases in
16:1, 18:0, and 18:l in the triglycerides during MCT feeding.
The changes in fatty acids in triglycerides with MCT
feeding are consistent with the hypothesis that excess dietary
MCT cause a significant increase in the hepatic synthesis of
these fatty acids from MCFA through de novo synthesis and/or
chain elongation and desaturation.


Example of fat overfeeding (albeit soy oil, yum) lowering serum cholesterol. Interesting with the medium chain triglyceride increasing triglycerides/fat synthesis. Fasting triglycerides tripled, from around 100 to 300 mg/dl.

16:0 is palmitic acid, de novo synthesis of fatty acids in humans starts there, so it's a marker.

Fed to 150 percent of maintenance requirement, with 40 percent calories as either MCT or soybean oil. :blecch:

MCT oil is showing up cheap on grocery store shelves as "liquid coconut oil." Probably a place for therapeutic use, not sure what happens when you just add it willy nilly to the SAD.
Reply With Quote
  #24   ^
Old Fri, Oct-05-18, 13:06
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,414
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Interesting, as I received one of my lowest triglycerides score when I had eliminated all dairy and consumed saturated fat from my meat servings and MCTs from coconut oil for 30 days prior to the blood draw. My TGs were 46. I did not consume any soy oil during the 30 day period.
Reply With Quote
  #25   ^
Old Tue, Oct-16-18, 11:08
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 13,006
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

https://bmjopensem.bmj.com/content/4/1/e000429

Quote:
Paradox of hypercholesterolaemia in highly trained, keto-adapted athletes
Brent C Creighton1, Parker Neil Hyde2, Carl M Maresh2, William J Kraemer2, Stephen D Phinney1, Jeff S Volek2
Author affiliations
Abstract
Objective A growing number of ultra-endurance athletes have switched to a very low-carbohydrate/high-fat eating pattern. We compared markers of cholesterol and the lipoprotein profile in a group of elite ultra-runners consuming a high-carbohydrate (HC) or low-carbohydrate (LC) diet.

Methods Fasting blood was obtained from competitive male ultra-endurance runners habitually consuming a very low-carbohydrate (LC; n=10) or high-carbohydrate (HC; n=10) diet to determine blood cholesterol profile, lipoprotein particle distribution and sterol biomarkers of cholesterol balance.

Results Plasma total cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein (LDL-C) and high-density lipoprotein (HDL-C) cholesterol were all significantly greater (p<0.000) in the LC group (65%, 83% and 60%, respectively). There were also significant differences in lipoprotein particle distribution as evidenced by a greater size and concentration of large HDL and LDL particles, and total LDL particle concentration was significantly greater in the LC group, but they had significantly fewer small LDL particles.

Conclusion Ultra-endurance athletes habitually consuming a very low-carbohydrate/high-fat diet for over a year showed unique cholesterol profiles characterised by consistently higher plasma LDL-C and HDL-C, less small LDL particles, and lipoprotein profiles consistent with higher insulin sensitivity. There may be a functional purpose to the expansion of the circulating cholesterol pool to meet the heightened demand for lipid transport in highly trained, keto-adapted athletes.


Pretty close to Feldman's explanation here.
Reply With Quote
  #26   ^
Old Tue, Oct-16-18, 11:52
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,414
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Thanks for finding this. It is consistent with Feldman's explanation and my thoughts on why my lipid profile is different as a keto practitioner. While not quite in the ultra-endurance athlete category, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express . . . .

Now we need to better understand the significance of these lipid profiles and the relationship, if any, to health in pursuit of quality of life longevity.
Reply With Quote
  #27   ^
Old Tue, Oct-16-18, 17:15
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,991
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

I remember years ago donating a pint of platelets, and marveled at the color. Different than every other donor.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 00:55.


Copyright © 2000-2018 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.