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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Oct-28-03, 12:52
stgagnon stgagnon is offline
New Member
Posts: 4
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 221.5/199.5/165
BF:
Progress: 39%
Location: Vermont
Question What to believe?

Greetings:
I'm not a regular poster in this forum, but I'm now looking for answers.
I seems like I might get some balanced replies from this forum. (?)

Background:
My mom, who has been doing Atkins since the beginning of the
year, and who has lost 20 lbs, feels great, has low BP, but who has seen increased LDL since starting the diet, had an emergency doctor visit today.

Seems that she temporarily lost sight in one of her eyes this weekend,
and the GP is attributing it to a possible clot. He is doing more tests
on her this week. Until the tests come back, they don't really know
what caused the vision loss.

Here's what I'm wondering about:
The doctor told her that Atkins is BAD. (He didn't tell her this during
a previous visit; he said she seemed great and to keep doing what she
was doing.)

He told her that the fat is bad; she should be doing low carb AND low fat.
(?) And he recommended the South Beach diet. OK, whatever.

But here's the thing that really has me suspicious: He told her that
"Atkins *really* died from a heart attack and had vascular blockages.

I have asked her how he knows this; she hasn't replied yet.

Has anyone heard this from any RELIABLE source? (Are there any
reliable sources out there?)

With this information, along with all the cr*p going on about Iraq, I am
really starting to think that we can't believe ANYTHING anymore.

Thanks for reading!
S.
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Oct-29-03, 04:56
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
But here's the thing that really has me suspicious: He told her that
"Atkins *really* died from a heart attack and had vascular blockages.


I also would be very interested in finding out what his source of that information was. AFAIK, there was no autopsy performed and it was widely publicised that Dr. Atkins slipped on ice while walking to work, hitting his head and suffering a subdural hematoma which he did not recover from. Unfortunately, with such an injury, the odds were not with him as it is fatal in 90% of elderly and young who sustain such an injury.
Sounds to me that this doctor is repeating rumor and not fact and I would take it as such unless he can produce a credible source (ie actual medical records) that says otherwise. Obtaining such information would be very difficult since HIPAA laws prevent such medical information from being released to the public without written consent from the family.
It could also be possible that this doctor is confusing the cardiac arrest that Dr. Atkins suffered approximately a year prior to his death with his actual cause of death, but at that time an angiogram was performed and showed no blockages present. The cardiac arrest was caused by cardiomyopathy that Dr. Atkins had for several years and developed as a result of a virus that he picked up while travelling overseas and that information was released to the public by Dr. Atkins and his family in response to the rumor that he had suffered a heart attack (MI).

Last edited by Lisa N : Wed, Oct-29-03 at 04:58.
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Oct-29-03, 05:05
Sinbad's Avatar
Sinbad Sinbad is offline
Too kinky for you
Posts: 1,445
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 265/246/187 Male 176 cm
BF:xxx/27.2/20
Progress: 24%
Location: South Africa (JHB)
Default

Quote:
He told her that the fat is bad; she should be doing low carb AND low fat.

Ok so where do your calories come from then? I guess it'd have to be protein! But wait! Any nutrionist worth his salt (sugar?) will tell you for absolute certain that a high-protein diet will wreck your kidneys.
I guess it's just not safe to EAT any more....
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Oct-29-03, 05:13
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Quote:
He told her that the fat is bad; she should be doing low carb AND low fat.
(?) And he recommended the South Beach diet. OK, whatever.


He needs to go back and read that book again. South Beach is not low carb other than the first 2 weeks and states so right at the beginning of the book.
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Oct-29-03, 09:25
scorpio381's Avatar
scorpio381 scorpio381 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 858
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 000/000/135 Female 5' 2"
BF:uh/no/thanks
Progress: 0%
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Default

My opinion is that your mother's doctor is a quack. First he tells her she's doing great and to keep up the good work. Then when something goes wrong (whether it was related to the Atkins diet or not), he tells her to STOP what she's doing....that it's a bad, bad thing. I'd bet you 10 to 1 her doctor has never read the Atkins book. He's only grasping at straws, pulling his opinions out of thin air. Doctors are not Gods. They are not well-informed on every medical subject. Unless they can find a direct link to what's happened to her now and the Atkins diet, I'd tell her to go on her merry way and possibly find a doctor who will support her choices.

As for the reason of Dr. Atkins death.....Here again, this doctor is grasping at straws in an attempt to get his point across.

BTW...I wish your mom all the best.
Good luck.
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Oct-29-03, 12:28
NickFender NickFender is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,042
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 283/250.5/190 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress: 35%
Location: Pacific NW
Default

Last spring, the Journal of the American Medical Association published an exhaustive review of all pertinent studies regarding low-carb diets. One of the primary conclusions they reached was that there was no conclusive evidence that low-carb diets could be linked to the various health problems that low-carb critics typically cite.
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  #7   ^
Old Thu, Oct-30-03, 21:49
PurpleStix's Avatar
PurpleStix PurpleStix is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 182
 
Plan: Fuhrmann
Stats: 248/229.5/170 Male 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 24%
Location: Penticton BC
Default

Your mom's GP is dangerous. If she really does have a clot, she can't afford to eat the wrong food.

If she is truly in dietary ketosis, triglycerides in the bloodstream won't last when glucagon catches up with them.
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, Nov-08-03, 13:08
CindySue48's Avatar
CindySue48 CindySue48 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,816
 
Plan: Atkins/Protein Power
Stats: 256/179/160 Female 68 inches
BF:38.9/27.2/24.3
Progress: 80%
Location: Triangle NC
Default

Nick.....can you post a link to the article? I'd love to read it!
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Nov-18-03, 21:26
black57 black57 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,822
 
Plan: atkins/intermit. fasting
Stats: 166/136/135 Female 5'3''
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: Orange, California
Default

The writers of PP state that fat and cholesterol cannot clog the arteries without the help of carbohydrates. These writers, who are also doctors, have explained this quite clearly in their book. I, personally, would ask my doctor to explain to me why they are wrong.

Black57
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, Dec-30-03, 15:12
jimjam jimjam is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 142
 
Plan: 60 grams or less a day
Stats: 178/148/135
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: USA
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Quote:
He told her that
"Atkins *really* died from a heart attack and had vascular blockages.


I'm sorry all, but that is true - I actually heard Dr. Atkins physician say this on a health show on FOX News the weekend after he died. It was actually his own physician who said this way back - it's really true but the Atkins people really wanted to keep it quiet because he - - or now his business - makes millions off this diet and don't want a good thing to end by scaring people.

But in the end, I just think we all need to be responsible for our own bodies and be sure to get our cholesterol levels checked, etc., and stop blame-shifting. It may hurt some, but not others and no one knows unless they try...
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Dec-30-03, 15:38
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Quote:
I'm sorry all, but that is true - I actually heard Dr. Atkins physician say this on a health show on FOX News the weekend after he died.


Funny...I can't find any reference to that at all in the Fox News archives (other than a report on his cardiac arrest roughly a year prior to that). Can you find it? Are you sure you aren't remembering his cardiac arrest (not diet related) a year prior to his death? It was widely reported as a heart attack, but the two are very different with often very different causes.
Several people witnessed Dr. Atkins slip and fall on the ice in front of his practice striking his head on the pavement and it was reported that he suffered a subdural hemotoma as a result, which has a more than 90% fatality rate in people his age.
AFAIK, the family refused a post-mortem autopsy and if one was done, his doctor was seriously breaking patient confidentiality (as well as at least a couple of Federal laws) sharing confidential patient information publically without written consent from the family which I doubt they would have provided.

Last edited by Lisa N : Tue, Dec-30-03 at 16:13.
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, Dec-30-03, 23:48
jimjam jimjam is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 142
 
Plan: 60 grams or less a day
Stats: 178/148/135
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: USA
Default

I don't have a link handy, no but I saw the doctor and heard the interview and know what he said - he said the good doctor died of a heart attack. It was a weekend show - can you search those archives?
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  #13   ^
Old Wed, Dec-31-03, 09:36
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Quote:
It was a weekend show - can you search those archives?


I searched their entire archive database; no mention of Dr. Atkins dying from a heart attack. As a matter of fact, every report that my search turned up stated that Dr. Atkins died as a result of injuries sustained in his fall, which as I mentioned before was witnessed by several people.
I searched the web for "Dr. Atkins autopsy"...nothing.
I searched Fox News database for "Dr. Atkins heart attack"...only the report from a year before his death and at that time it was reported that Dr. Atkins had undergone a cardiac angiogram and had clear cardiac arteries.
Without a link, there is no way to verify what was or was not said, but if you heard correctly and this doctor was publically giving the results of Dr. Atkins autopsy (if one was actually performed and the only way to verify whether he did or did not have atherosclerosis and it was the true cause of his death would be an autopsy), then I have to wonder if he still has his license because doing so is violating Federal HIPAA laws without written consent from the family. I'm sure the news media would have snatched that up and reported it widely given their current bias against low carb, not just on a weekend show for which I can find no record.
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  #14   ^
Old Wed, Dec-31-03, 11:19
black57 black57 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,822
 
Plan: atkins/intermit. fasting
Stats: 166/136/135 Female 5'3''
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: Orange, California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickFender
Last spring, the Journal of the American Medical Association published an exhaustive review of all pertinent studies regarding low-carb diets. One of the primary conclusions they reached was that there was no conclusive evidence that low-carb diets could be linked to the various health problems that low-carb critics typically cite.


Why didn't the news media jump on the news of DA dying of a heart attack or heart disease?

The American Heart Association tested this diet and revealed results on the news, Thanksgiving 2002. Not only did they prove it to be a better diet than the AHA's it proved to be healthier. i researched this diet for a long time and when I heard these results it I decided to start this woe. I won't print this out completely but my Cholesterol total is 148 ( anything under 200 total is normal )
triglycerides=59
glucose = 98

Here is my question. DA had been on this diet over 30 years. If he died of heart disease why did it take so long to kill him? It is really hard for me to believe that DA died of heart disease.

Black57
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  #15   ^
Old Wed, Dec-31-03, 14:01
Wenzday's Avatar
Wenzday Wenzday is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,546
 
Plan: Atkins/Duodenal Switch
Stats: 344/165/148 Female 65"  (inches) 5'5"
BF:falllingfast
Progress: 91%
Location: Michigan
Default

She needs a new Doctor.

NOBODY could make me believe Dr A died from heart attack....I would not have started this plan if I didnt believe in the many health benefits and such. It actually makes me mad that these rumors are flying but hey..whatever gets people going I guess.....
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